Saddle refund

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angelish

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Hi I bought a new saddle in about July 2017
Master saddler came out took one look at my current saddles and advised neither of them fit my horse (too long)
I had entry fees in etc so allowed myself to be talked into a new saddle that he said would be the solve of all our problems
A week later I had to get him back out as the horse was unhappy , he put a wider gullet in and added shims to the middle to stop it bridging (it's a bates dressage)
I had bought the GP on his advise by this time again fitted by him
Horse is a fairly quirky ex racehorse that can be nappy and naughty
She went better in it after he'd adjusted it so off I went and persevered , to cut a long story short he came back out to check it and made it worse twice costing me £60 a time plus the cost of more shims
The horse bucked me off in this time and was diagnosed with ulcers and also started windsucking
I rang him to let him know I was having problems and he didn't really want to know , I saw him on my yard fitting someone else's horse and he couldn't get away from me quick enough
I've since had two different saddlers out that have said it doesn't fit my horse never going to the panels are the wrong shape
I'm going to loose a lot of money trying to sell
I do realise I've left it a long time but when a professional is telling you it fits and the horse can be quirky I kept trying different shims and pads etc
I'm now using a different saddle and the horse is like a different horse , im actually using one of the saddle he had said didn't fit at all was no good (it has been fitted by a different saddle fitter)
So have I got a leg to stand on asking for a refund ?
I feel it's worth a try
 
It was such a long time ago, he’d have a very good argument by now that the horse could have changed shape dramatically in that time span.
I bought my first ex racer a new saddle straight away and within 6 months it was completely wrong for him. It did however fit at the time
 
I sorry I don't think you have any chance of a refund. The saddle is over eighteen months old and you will have terribly trouble proving that the horse hasn't changed shape in that time and that the saddle never fitted.
 
July 2017 is a lifetime away in the fitting of a saddle.

I have only had my horse 9 months and we have had several saddles as she is maturing and changing shape.

I don't think you will be successful with a refund.
 
I dont know the law or timescales legally but personally think its too long now although I suppose youve got nothing to lose as its not like you have just decided it doesnt fit. A similar thing happened to me and cost me a lot for physio and 2 months off to fix my poor horse. I ended up just selling the saddle in the end
 
i think its been a long time, however i would write down exactly when thing happened and the dates that you contacted him regarding problems.

Id then write a recorded delivery letter, letting him know how unhappy you are and that you would like a rely by X a date explaining why you had been sold a saddle that would have been very unlikely to have fitted your horse.

Im not sure if legally he has to do something, however morally (and not wanting bad press) he might, providing you have tried to contact him previously.
 
Thank you
It's so unfair you trust these people, apparently experts and I feel really let down
Not just by this particular saddle fitter but I have had another saddler out who would have quite cheerfully sold
Me another saddle that clearly didn't fit my horse despite her knowing my horses history!

These last few months dealing
With these saddlers have me wondering how many horses have gone through kissing spines operations when in actual fact the saddle is to blame !
 
May be worth an email, I had a saddle fitted by a Master Saddler Fitter, next up from saddle fitter and blows their trumpet somewhat! Horse was unhappy and let me know I also made the master saddle fitter aware by email, I went back, due to other complications, to my old saddle for a while. Some time later on a refit a master saddler looked at my "new" saddle and the template from the original fit. They said it didn't fit then and wouldn't at this time as it would bridge and would happily, if asked, put this in writing. A quick email and the original fitter supplied me with a new saddle in exchange. This was 2 years down the line. I had everything in writing, I made it clear it was a chance for them to do right by me and I would be following the terms for complaint on the Master Saddlers page if not. All ended well and am pleased with how I was eventually treated.
 
angelish said:
Thank you I thought that would be the case :(
I just feel so ripped off ,it's a lot of money to loose
Saddler didn't even take a template at the time either
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You may be surprised at how much you may get for it. Put it on eBay with a good reserve on it.
 
Than
MotherOfChickens said:
bridging is a serious fault and I'd be seriously peed off if a saddler sold me a saddle that bridged and then expected me to be happy with shimming it! I would give it a go, what do you have to lose?
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Thank you I think I will give it a go as I have nothing at all to loose
The other saddler I've had out recently tried to convince me the saddle she was trying to sell me "didn't matter if there was some bridging as it normally goes away once girthed up" after I sent that back saying that was bridging !

It's been an absolute nightmare situation I've completely lost all faith in any saddler tbh
I'm currently awaiting a new saddle with modified panels built from a template to fit her so fingers crossed that works , This saddler seems to want to try her best to sort this mess out and find us a saddle to suit
 
I have shimmed a bridging saddle as a temporary measure -but is was a saddle I already owned for a new pony, not a new one fitted by a saddle fitter and I got another saddle pronto.

is she a particularly difficult shape?
 
angelish said:
I paid £1350 for the saddle , same saddles are up for sale in good condition similar to mine for £650
😕
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Im not asking who this is but taking a wild guess it may be the same person who fit saddles to 2 friends horses, both didnt fit, one horse kept launching my friend and the other should never have been 'fit' by one of his saddles. Both ended up selling the saddles at a loss. If its the same saddles, they look beautiful!!
Regardless of who it is, its so unfair and I really hope you get sorted. We put our trust into these experts and often sadly pay the price.
Good saddle fitters are so hard to come by.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
I have shimmed a bridging saddle as a temporary measure -but is was a saddle I already owned for a new pony, not a new one fitted by a saddle fitter and I got another saddle pronto.

is she a particularly difficult shape?
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Just be to clear re the shims , it's a bates saddle and you can add the shims under the air bags in the actual saddle rather than adding a pad under it , just like you would add flocking but I believe now that the panels/tree shape is wrong for my horse and would never be suitable for her shape
She's an ex racehorse with a fairly short back that curves up towards her quarters
She is also a medium wide fitting but has fairly high withers so looking at her back she doesn't look particularly difficult to fit but now having learnt more about saddle fitting she needs a dropped panel , some saddlers try to put medium saddles on her to clear her withers but obviously they are too narrow on her shoulders and with the added problem of her having a slight slope upwards everything bridges on her
She doesn't have great big shark fin withers though
 
Louby said:
Im not asking who this is but taking a wild guess it may be the same person who fit saddles to 2 friends horses, both didnt fit, one horse kept launching my friend and the other should never have been 'fit' by one of his saddles. Both ended up selling the saddles at a loss. If its the same saddles, they look beautiful!!
Regardless of who it is, its so unfair and I really hope you get sorted. We put our trust into these experts and often sadly pay the price.
Good saddle fitters are so hard to come by.
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It is a beautiful saddle but tbh I didn't actually like riding in it at first it took a while to get used to it but I put up with it because saddler advised it was the best fit for my horse
Saddlers from Alnwick advertise as master saddlers
 
If you can afford one, (nearly £3k new but good availability second hand) and stand the weight of them, WOW saddles are very good at fitting horses which bridge easily, because of the air in them. it's many times greater than in the Bates and also adjustable. I also have a short back wide ex racer with a high but not sharks fin wither, and I'm having no problem with saddle fit with the commonest panel, the DWG.
 
ycbm said:
I sorry I don't think you have any chance of a refund. The saddle is over eighteen months old and you will have terribly trouble proving that the horse hasn't changed shape in that time and that the saddle never fitted.
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I think this as well , I have had horses who have been through several saddles in 18months one had the saddler here so much my Oh thought she was living here.
No saddle can be guaranteed to fiit a horse for ever and while it’s bad luck you just have to get on with it .
Having one of these more challenging to fit horses is a total pain until you get it to deal with you can’t believe how difficult it is deal with .
It can be a complete nightmare
Have you had vet and physio Imput with the horse as it’s my experiance these problems are rarely just the saddle .
And training can radically change how the horse carry’s a saddle .
Sadly I think you have to sell the saddle and start again .
Been there done that got the tee shirt .
 
ycbm said:
If you can afford one, (nearly £3k new but good availability second hand) and stand the weight of them, WOW saddles are very good at fitting horses which bridge easily, because of the air in them. it's many times greater than in the Bates and also adjustable. I also have a short back wide ex racer with a high but not sharks fin wither, and I'm having no problem with saddle fit with the commonest panel, the DWG.
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Unfortunately I just don't have the budget for one :(
I have a saddle coming with modified panels and an extra gusset built from a template coming , I'm really hoping that is going to solve our problems
 
Goldenstar said:
I think this as well , I have had horses who have been through several saddles in 18months one had the saddler here so much my Oh thought she was living here.
No saddle can be guaranteed to fiit a horse for ever and while it’s bad luck you just have to get on with it .
Having one of these more challenging to fit horses is a total pain until you get it to deal with you can’t believe how difficult it is deal with .
It can be a complete nightmare
Have you had vet and physio Imput with the horse as it’s my experiance these problems are rarely just the saddle .
And training can radically change how the horse carry’s a saddle .
Sadly I think you have to sell the saddle and start again .
Been there done that got the tee shirt .
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The horse is perfectly fine in my GP saddle with a prolite/shim but I have had a physio out to see her
I do agree unfortunately I've left it too long but I also believe that this saddle has never been suitable for my horse it's not just that she has changed shape etc I've had constant problems with it since I bought it
 
This happens so many times on here (and in RL); do people not learn about basic saddle fit for themselves any more? It's really not complicated. I was taught when I was a very young teenager by a kind horseman, and then did a short stint with a saddler (a real one, not just a saddle seller - he made saddles from the tree up) which was possibly one of the most useful things I've ever done. I don't think most people realise that "saddle fitters" aren't saddlers and often have only done a very short orientation course before going out with their "qualifications" (not true of everyone of course; there are some genuinely skilled and experienced people out there). This trend of outsourcing basic skills, now including bit fitting "consultants", bemuses this oldie who learned all this as a child. There are excellent resources to teach yourselves: books, and videos, etc. on tinternet.....
 
Cortez, the trouble is there are so many weird and wacky designs of saddles out there these days that have been designed purely with the rider in mind. It's all about knee rolls, 'adjustable' saddles and deep seats etc now, not about the horse.

The good old 'fits almost anything' saddle is a rare beast now, it's not sexy enough. No wonder owners get confused, especially when the 'experts' give out such duff advice.
 
Cortez said:
This happens so many times on here (and in RL); do people not learn about basic saddle fit for themselves any more? It's really not complicated. I was taught when I was a very young teenager by a kind horseman, and then did a short stint with a saddler (a real one, not just a saddle seller - he made saddles from the tree up) which was possibly one of the most useful things I've ever done. I don't think most people realise that "saddle fitters" aren't saddlers and often have only done a very short orientation course before going out with their "qualifications" (not true of everyone of course; there are some genuinely skilled and experienced people out there). This trend of outsourcing basic skills, now including bit fitting "consultants", bemuses this oldie who learned all this as a child. There are excellent resources to teach yourselves: books, and videos, etc. on tinter net.....
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I was quite happy I knew the basics of saddle fit but have now learnt so much more about different shaped trees and panels etc
It's very difficult when an expert is telling you something fits and implying that I had been trotting around in a saddle that was far too big for my horse potentially causing damage and I needed to buy one of these adjustable bates saddles as that was the only one that would suit my horse
I do believe he "saw me coming" and I have been right royaly ripped off , of not only the £1350 for that saddle but he recommended I buy the GP version too luckily I got that second hand and have only lost £100 on it
but I have learnt from the experience and now have absolutely no faith in many saddle fitters in my area they are about as much use as a chocolate fire guard the whole lot of them !
There has been a lot of kissing spines operations over the last few years in this area weather or not that is due to another "fashion" or the complete incompetence of the saddle fitters in this area
Tbh I feel so let down by the sms on behalf of all the horses in this area as I believe some people wouldn't listen to the horse and believe "experts" when they are saying the saddle fits when it clearly doesn't
I have been so shocked by what I have seen over the past few months it's unreal !
If I could figure out how to post pics on here I would put some photos on of another two saddles another master saddler fitted to my horse for me to trial for a few weeks saying they fitted her !
You'd be shocked
 
Tiddlypom said:
Cortez, the trouble is there are so many weird and wacky designs of saddles out there these days that have been designed purely with the rider in mind. It's all about knee rolls, 'adjustable' saddles and deep seats etc now, not about the horse.

The good old 'fits almost anything' saddle is a rare beast now, it's not sexy enough. No wonder owners get confused, especially when the 'experts' give out such duff advice.
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I'd be more than happy with an old battered saddle if it just fit my horse properly :(
I do believe most saddlers these days just want to make money rather than have the interests of the horse in mind
 
No I wouldn't be shocked ;). I've been present when so called fitters were at work.....many (most?) are really just saddle salesmen. I have a selection of saddles (3) and have used them with the vast majority of horses I've had in my lifetime (hundreds - I'm an ex-pro trainer who used to break horses for a living), and I have never had a horse with a sore back. A couple of horses have ultimately needed hand made saddles, but I really mean a couple (2). The number of saddles people go through when owning even just one horse must gladden the hearts of saddle salesmen everywhere (which of course is exactly the point). You won't find all this saddle swapping going on in pro yards either; they have more experience (and sense) than the average leisure rider.
 
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angelish said:
Than


The other saddler I've had out recently tried to convince me the saddle she was trying to sell me "didn't matter if there was some bridging as it normally goes away once girthed up" after I sent that back saying that was bridging !
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I had a saddler tell me, in a very patronising way, that it didn’t matter that my current saddle wasn’t remotely level, lifted at the back and bridged, because my horse would lift his back when he was ridden (he was out of work at the time). The next saddler fitted a Prolite pad and solved the issues so I’m not sure what the original saddler was trying to achieve (she could have obviously sold me a new saddle). She was a Master Saddler too although thankfully gone out of business since. I wonder why?
 
I think we need to get away from the idea that a Master Saddle Fitter is by default a good saddle fitter, it simply means that they have passed the relevant Society of Master Saddlers exams the syllabus of which some of the very best fitters have fundamental questions on.
 
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