Saddle riser pad for pinching at shoulder?

[Jane1112]

Hi so after 2 pointless saddler visits later, I have come here to seek some advice on what to do.

I have just bought a Barnsby Schockemohle 17.5” jump saddle, which fits 6ft me and my legs really great!

The saddlers I’ve had said the barnsby (and another 6 saddles I tried) aren’t wide enough for his big shoulders so pinch him jumping, but also sit too wide on his withers making it lift at the back.

I can’t buy a nice new saddle as I’m possibly selling him soon, so just wondered if there were any riser pads that could help lift the saddle off his shoulders so it wasn’t so tight? This is a wide saddle btw! Or would buying a wintec jump saddle be better to put an XW gullet in it?

Any help would be great as the saddler just wants to sell me saddles way out my budget. Thank you

 

[Wheels]

Not really sure what you mean by too wide but not wide enough, bit confusing that.

Do you have pics of the horse without the saddle?

 

[Pinkvboots]

If it's not wide enough a riser pad will probably make it even tighter.

 

[cobgoblin]

Do you mean you've just bought a saddle that you knew didn't fit the horse?

 

[honetpot]

Not very good at the technical terms but if its wide enough at where the padding starts below the pommel and perhaps its a girthing issue, or the saddle is too far forward towards the shoulder. There seem to be a thing for sitting the saddle up the neck, if its a wide horse with little wither you really have to find the natural spot to sit the saddle. Girthing tightly can dig it into the shoulder, usually done to stop the saddle from moving. It should not look perched.
This video pretty much explains what I am trying to say.

Barnsby did up to a number 5 fit, which is not that wide, its what I would call a normal cob fit.

 

[Jane1112]

Not really sure what you mean by too wide but not wide enough, bit confusing that.

Do you have pics of the horse without the saddle?

Hi thank you for the reply. I’ve attached a photo of him standing and in the field also. The saddle is size wide and I was told the shape of the saddle means there isn’t enough space for his big shoulders. I’m rather confused myself as how to interpret what the saddle told me. Any help would be fantastic thank you.

 

[Jane1112]

Do you mean you've just bought a saddle that you knew didn't fit the horse?

I bought the saddle unseen from one saddler and when I got a different saddler out to have a look at it, they told me it didn’t fit.

 

[Jane1112]

Hi so after 2 pointless saddler visits later, I have come here to seek some advice on what to do.

I have just bought a Barnsby Schockemohle 17.5” jump saddle, which fits 6ft me and my legs really great!

The saddlers I’ve had said the barnsby (and another 6 saddles I tried) aren’t wide enough for his big shoulders so pinch him jumping, but also sit too wide on his withers making it lift at the back.

I can’t buy a nice new saddle as I’m possibly selling him soon, so just wondered if there were any riser pads that could help lift the saddle off his shoulders so it wasn’t so tight? This is a wide saddle btw! Or would buying a wintec jump saddle be better to put an XW gullet in it?

Any help would be great as the saddler just wants to sell me saddles way out my budget. Thank you

Here is a photo of the saddle on the horse. Sorry for any confusion (you may be able to tell I’m quite unsure myself). I’ve been told the gullet isn’t too wide, but the saddle sits too forward.

 

[Jane1112]

If it's not wide enough a riser pad will probably make it even tighter.

Thanks for your reply. The saddler has left me rather confused as he said it wasn’t that the gullet isn’t wide enough, but just that the saddle sits too forward so is interfering with his shoulder if that makes sense to you?

 

[Jane1112]

Not very good at the technical terms but if its wide enough at where the padding starts below the pommel and perhaps its a girthing issue, or the saddle is too far forward towards the shoulder. There seem to be a thing for sitting the saddle up the neck, if its a wide horse with little wither you really have to find the natural spot to sit the saddle. Girthing tightly can dig it into the shoulder, usually done to stop the saddle from moving. It should not look perched.
This video pretty much explains what I am trying to say.

Barnsby did up to a number 5 fit, which is not that wide, its what I would call a normal cob fit.

Thank you for the reply- the video is very interesting. I’ll attach a photo of the saddle as essentially it’s interfering with his shoulder movement when it’s positioned too far forward, but when I sit the saddle further back, the girth straps are behind his girth groove.

 

[LiquidMetal]

https://www.facebook.com/717477271978470/posts/1120989684960558

hopefully that link works. Honestly it’s a bit confusing to try and figure out what’s going on, but I’m guessing your saddle is too wide. It is pinching at the withers because the tree points aren’t resting on your horse’s sides and providing support. It is also why the cantle of your saddle pops up over jumps.

 

[Jane1112]

https://www.facebook.com/717477271978470/posts/1120989684960558

hopefully that link works. Honestly it’s a bit confusing to try and figure out what’s going on, but I’m guessing your saddle is too wide. It is pinching at the withers because the tree points aren’t resting on your horse’s sides and providing support. It is also why the cantle of your saddle pops up over jumps.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head! There’s a big gap under the lower point of the tree, so the saddle must carry all my weight on just my horse’s shoulders (hence the pinching) this post suggests. This would definitely make sense. Thank you!! In which case, a front riser could help or just a narrower saddle all together? If only my saddler could’ve explained this instead of telling me I need to buy a custom saddle. Thank you

 

[Wheels]

It looks too wide & too curvy from those pics so is therefore sitting too low. You already have a half pad on and shimming may help but if it's a lot too wide it wont work. Shimming is usually used where muscle is missing whilst the horse builds up but your horse looks pretty well muscled anyway.

Did you buy it from a business unseen? How long ago?

 

[cobgoblin]

I don't think a front riser would help if that's the problem. I think you need a different saddle.. But I doubt you need a custom one.

 

[Jane1112]

It looks too wide & too curvy from those pics so is therefore sitting too low. You already have a half pad on and shimming may help but if it's a lot too wide it wont work. Shimming is usually used where muscle is missing whilst the horse builds up but your horse looks pretty well muscled anyway.

Did you buy it from a business unseen? How long ago?

My horse has been in full time work for years so has a lot of muscle (and he’s probably a little fat too haha). I bought it from a private seller a few weeks ago, but the saddler advised me on buying something wide to accommodate for his big shoulders. How do you get the balance of the gullet not being too wide, but there still being space for the shoulders to move freely? Thank you for your help

 

[Wheels]

My advice is not to buy unseen off the internet from a private person unless you know exactly what you are looking for. Sorry that's probably not much help to you now

What is the make / model?

You should either sell this or see if you can trade it in with a reputable saddle fitter who knows how to fit wide and fairly flat backs. Certain brands are better than others for this type of saddle.

Where are you based?

 

[Jane1112]

My advice is not to buy unseen off the internet from a private person unless you know exactly what you are looking for. Sorry that's probably not much help to you now

What is the make / model?

You should either sell this or see if you can trade it in with a reputable saddle fitter who knows how to fit wide and fairly flat backs. Certain brands are better than others for this type of saddle.

Where are you based?

Yes I don’t think I’ll be doing it again in the future! I just wanted a saddle for the summer before I sell my horse on so didn’t want to spend too much.

It’s a Barnsby Schockemohle jump saddle wide fit. Obviously my horse’s comfort is my priority, so I will be willing to sell it/ exchange if I can’t make it fit.

I am based in West Sussex.

 

[Wheels]

I dont any fitters in that area, sorry but hopefully someone on here can recommend someone for you.

 

[Frumpoon]

The schockemole is a close contact so it can't be flocked to fit. Ordinarily I think a saddler would widen the front then put flocking under the seat area on the underside to lift it. But that can't happen here

Barnsby close contacts have decent resale value though so you should be able to sell quite easily

I think Steph Bloom covers that area or will know someone who does

Although having looked at his back a barnsby close contact should be able to fit him, the head is adjustable and you should use a pro lite and/or half pad

 

[Jane1112]

The schockemole is a close contact so it can't be flocked to fit. Ordinarily I think a saddler would widen the front then put flocking under the seat area on the underside to lift it. But that can't happen here

Barnsby close contacts have decent resale value though so you should be able to sell quite easily

I think Steph Bloom covers that area or will know someone who does

Although having looked at his back a barnsby close contact should be able to fit him, the head is adjustable and you should use a pro lite and/or half pad

Thank you for such a detailed response- it’s really appreciated! It sounds like my best option is to sell it or I was looking into getting one of these wintec pads to lift it at the front (attached). Don’t know if you think it could help?

I had been using a thick sheepskin half pad, but the saddle still came up a lot at the back jumping and I could tell my horse felt uncomfortable so soon got a (not so helpful) saddler out. Thanks again

 

[LiquidMetal]

It depends on how much too wide it is. Sometimes you can use shims or half pad to fill in a little bit of difference but since you’re already using half pad, I think it is just too wide. A lot of saddle fitters have this idea that saddles need to be wide to accommodate the shoulders. This is mostly incorrect. That’s how you end up with tree points that are too wide and not supporting saddle.

If you look more at that Facebook page I linked to, that fitter talks about shoulder movement in another post. Basically shoulders don’t move as much as some saddle fitters have led us to believe and if tree points are correct width and length, there is plenty of room for shoulders. She also talks a lot about different gullet shapes which was a huge eye opener for me and unlocked the mystery of why I was having so much trouble finding a saddle for my OTTB with high withers.

 

[Frumpoon]

Steph Bloom is on here as a user so hopefully she'll be along in a bit, there's another nice chap who's a saddler who's name escapes me who used to live in Surrey on here who can probably advise further

 

[Frumpoon]

If you are going to use a riser then the you need the opposite of the one you have pictured - if it is lifting at the back then you need to stabilise the front with a front riser

 

[Jane1112]

I dont any fitters in that area, sorry but hopefully someone on here can recommend someone for you.

Thank you anyway.

It depends on how much too wide it is. Sometimes you can use shims or half pad to fill in a little bit of difference but since you’re already using half pad, I think it is just too wide. A lot of saddle fitters have this idea that saddles need to be wide to accommodate the shoulders. This is mostly incorrect. That’s how you end up with tree points that are too wide and not supporting saddle.

If you look more at that Facebook page I linked to, that fitter talks about shoulder movement in another post. Basically shoulders don’t move as much as some saddle fitters have led us to believe and if tree points are correct width and length, there is plenty of room for shoulders. She also talks a lot about different gullet shapes which was a huge eye opener for me and unlocked the mystery of why I was having so much trouble finding a saddle for my OTTB with high withers.

I think that has been the case here. My horse isn’t that wide in the wither, yet a saddler I used put an XW gullet in his old adjustable as they said he has such big shoulders. I will have a look through the Facebook page for some more fitting advice on gullet advice- every saddler I use seems to have a different opinion. Thank you for the link and help

 

[Frumpoon]

Your horse doesn't look to be any more than a standard medium wide

I reckon the head just needs pulling in a bit to lift the front, close contacts have short points anyway so shouldn't impede the shoulder

You'll still need a half pad or similar after though as that's just how the fit of these saddles is

 

[Jane1112]

Your horse doesn't look to be any more than a standard medium wide

I reckon the head just needs pulling in a bit to lift the front, close contacts have short points anyway so shouldn't impede the shoulder

You'll still need a half pad or similar after though as that's just how the fit of these saddles is

If I could make it fit, that would be great. I’m just not sure what you mean by the head being pulled in?

thank you!

 

[Frumpoon]

The head of the tree - the metal bit that forms the arc under the pommel- can be pulled inwards on a saddle devil to make the fit narrower at the top - bear with me - this will have the effect of lifting the whole front of the saddle and then the widest part at the bottom will sit more comfortably over the shoulder and stabilise the back of the saddle where the panels are lifting

Where is sbloom when you need her......

 

[LiquidMetal]

I believe Frumpoon is talking about putting saddle into tree press to adjust width of tree points. That might be possible if saddle is just slightly too wide. I’ve been told that you can only adjust about a cm narrower or wider from original tree.

 

[charterline]

What I would suggest is either looking for a saddler that has a good range of cheaper second hand saddles in, that also have a decent reputation as a saddler.

or get another saddler out, get them to recommend what model and make you need, find it second hand, and get saddler back to fit. If you can get him in a Thorowgood or wintec, these are a lot easier to sell than other saddles

 

[JennBags]

No point having a saddle that fits you and not the horse as you'll end up causing back issues and then you'll struggle to sell him!
Andrew Reilly is an excellent saddle fitter who covers West Sussex but I don't believe he sells saddles. He will tell you quite clearly if your saddle doesn't fit and he can't make it fit, so if you've got an unsuitable saddle for your horse and don't have any other options available then it could be a wasted visit, although he will give you ideas of what you do need, as he doesn't have an interest in selling you a saddle then he's totally up front about whether your saddle fits or not. If you want his number then PM me.
There's another lady that has been highly recommended to me but I've not used her myself, her name escapes me at the moment but I can get her details from a friend later. I think she does sell second hand saddles.
I've never had a problem with Dragonfly Saddlery but I know some other people have, not sure what range they have for saddles any more as they don't have their shop these days but they always used to carry a good range of new and second hand saddles.
There also Martin from Penfolds who carry a good range but again I've not used him myself so can't make a recommendation, although I know a lot of people swear by him.