Saddle sale problem

holeymoley

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 November 2012
Messages
4,325
Visit site
Wondering if anyone can help with this whether you’ve had the same experience or from a seller point of view.

I sold a saddle via Facebook and money exchanged via PayPal, all very legit. Photos, measurements and questions were sent and replied to and saddle cleaned conditioned and sent off. I’ve now received a message a week later asking if they can send back as it’s too narrow and the seat is smaller than advertised according to their saddler(I’ll ask who). My saddler measured and corresponds with my seat size as measured.

Basically stuck. In my opinion and experience you take a risk buying a saddle before getting it fitted, we’ve all been there. I have photos to show it’s been measured as advertised. I’d I accept it back, how do I know it’s not damaged? If I don’t, how do I know she won’t claim the money back via PayPal?
It’s a really nice saddle. I dispute her sizes too as the size she’s saying is like hens teeth to find! x
 

holeymoley

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 November 2012
Messages
4,325
Visit site
Rats I thought PayPal was good?! I’m sure it’s not the friends one, I’ll check. I don’t want to end up saddle and money down :(
 

Mrs. Jingle

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 September 2009
Messages
4,764
Location
Deep in Bandit Country
Visit site
Unfortunately IME paypal seems to side with the buyer as a default setting. You can argue the point as much as you like but when they come down beside the buyer you are screwed basically. I would not sell anything over the value I could easily loose and accept. Grossly unfair for a lot of sellers but that is how the cards seem to fall when Paypal is in the mix. :(
 

PurBee

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 November 2019
Messages
5,472
Visit site
She’s trying to use the ‘not as advertised’ distance selling regulations to be able to return it and get their money back.
I dont know about facebook selling rules, but generally second-hand goods are sold with no returns...providing they are as advertised.
If you have pics to show measurement, that were part of the original sale advert, how can she dispute that?
I would state no return option for this item as measurement pics were shown in the advert, and confirmed by your professional saddler. Advise her to sell on.
If hassle ensues....get hold of paypal and run it through with them...i.e youre being messed about as a seller.
If youre willing to have it back, she pays return post of the saddle as it IS as advertised, and you refund the paypal.
 

holeymoley

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 November 2012
Messages
4,325
Visit site
Looking back at the advert I’ve only used the tape measure at the front, not put up the photo with inch tape for seat size. I’ll need to search through my photos for that one. The irony is that my saddle fitter said it actually comes up as a very big 17” as it’s a show saddle and designed to accommodate judges comfortably. The buyer is saying it’s a 16.5”. If it was that I’d probably have kept it!
 

holeymoley

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 November 2012
Messages
4,325
Visit site
Do you have the serial number to hand? A lot of serial numbers correlate to the size and model of the saddle so could go some way to proving it was the size advertised if you can either check online or get the brand to verify it.

I don’t but I do have lots of photos of the saddle- would it be on the underside where the girth straps are? I vaguely remember seeing number stamped in. I’m sure it’s near where it says the year it was made?
 

Melody Grey

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 April 2014
Messages
2,099
Visit site
I don’t but I do have lots of photos of the saddle- would it be on the underside where the girth straps are? I vaguely remember seeing number stamped in. I’m sure it’s near where it says the year it was made?
Yes- usually under where the girth straps lie- sometimes they will also be stamped with seat/ tree size and width fitting.
 

cremedemonthe

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 March 2011
Messages
5,614
Location
Was Caterham on the Hill, Surrey now Wales
Visit site
Size, serial number identifying marks are often stamped on the nearside sweatflap.
If the buyer has gone on a measurement of width from point to point or dee to dee whatever is chosen to measure it by then it has no real bearing on the size/width as it's too unreliable and is not how you should measure a saddle's width and I don't know why people do it. The shape and style of the tree's head and the gullet plate as well as the style of panel, amount of wear, the depth and amount of flocking/foam/air in the panel can be so different from saddle to saddle, even the same brand and what might measure at so many inches in one style and be classed as narrow might be totally different in another style/brand.
Oz
 

holeymoley

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 November 2012
Messages
4,325
Visit site
Thank you I’m trying to get the photos to load correctly to zoom in. I remember seeing the numbers in relation to which year it was manufactured.
I also have screen shots of the conversations and buyer states that she ‘hopes it fits’...
 

flying_high

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 February 2016
Messages
933
Visit site
I would reply, you are sorry it does not fit the horse. But that is the risk she took buying a second hand saddle remotely. You provided all measurements, and confirmed those measurements with your saddler. The saddle was correctly advertised. Second hand saddles are sold without returns. The only circumstances you are eligible for a return is if the information provided was incorrect. The saddle is definitely 17 inch, and was confirmed as 17” by saddler and a tape measure.
 

Leo Walker

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 July 2013
Messages
12,384
Location
Northampton
Visit site
Just re-read: regardless of seat size, you have shown width measurement with a tape and on arrival they have deemed it to be too narrow. Not your problem!

Thats not true I'm afraid. If its been sold as 17" and its 18" then its missold and the seller has to fully refund the postage and pay to get it back. Doesnt sound like thats the case in this instance though
 

asmp

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 March 2010
Messages
4,123
Visit site
Can’t offer much in the way of advice but I purchased a saddle off eBay. Drove all the way to Wales to pick it up but as soon as I collected it, realised it was the wrong model (my mistake for not doing enough checks beforehand). However, sold it on for a profit and then saw the lady I’d sold it to, advertising it for even more!

I didn’t even think of returning it.
 

Ranyhyn

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 November 2008
Messages
21,276
Location
Funny farm
Visit site
To be honest, you have no more guarantee it wont arrive damaged than she/he had when they bought it.

To be cute I'd say I will not accept returns, however i will buy it back for the same price via paypal. Do it with protection and if damaged you get it covered.

But I'm a dodgy geezer :D
 

cremedemonthe

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 March 2011
Messages
5,614
Location
Was Caterham on the Hill, Surrey now Wales
Visit site
Trouble with paypal (as well as ebay) is, the very often side with a buyer. I sold a exensive hermes watch on ebay privately, seller paid via paypal, then claimed it wasn't genuine and demanded money back, even though I could prove it was I had to fund return insured postage and refund the buyer as they freeze the funds in your account and will take it no matter what you say.
Paypal have charged back the cost of things I have sold on facebook when the buyer's claimed they are not as described (they bloody well were) so I am very wary of selling anything as a private sale or as a business seller on ebay or via paypal.
As a business seller I only sell cheap things on ebay like cockerel collars and often take "hits" on those too, all I can do is stump up the money and block the buyer so they can't do it again.
There is a scam, an old one but still going on ebay where a seller sells a nice good English saddle, say for £800. Buyer gets it and then claims it is damaged or not as described, the usual old B*ll*cks that goes with it. Ebay insist seller takes it back, freezes the money in their account so they can't withdraw it or close it down.Seller has no choice so accepts it back. Buyer sends back a cheap foreign made saddle and keeps the expensive saddle. Seller loses the £800 as ebay/paypal refund them as the buyer shows proof of delivery and then loses the saddle too.
Ebay and paypal don't bother to check or care that the seller has been had, as long as a saddle is returned and there is a signature, then it's hard luck.
It is only a matter of time before this scam gets on to the facebook and other places that peope sell on if it's not already on there. Paypal simply hasn't got the time or the knowledge of being able to tell one black leather saddle apart from another one.
 

TPO

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2008
Messages
9,414
Location
Kinross
Visit site
Thats not true I'm afraid. If its been sold as 17" and its 18" then its missold and the seller has to fully refund the postage and pay to get it back. Doesnt sound like thats the case in this instance though

The paying to get it back bit isn't true via Paypal. I'm going through this just now as I was missold something; seller offered 20% refund and I keep the item (I don't want this item and it is not what I ordered from them. I escalated via Paypal and I will only get a full refund if I return the item at my expense; seller does not cover postage despite admitting their website was misleading and they have sent the wrong item.

I complained to Paypal again as the item needs to be returned to a foreign country and the postage is over £30 tracked. They said that only a court can enforce my consumer rights to get the return postage covered.

so yeah it sucks massively because I thought I was protected buying via Paypal.

I think let them escalate it via Paypal for a refund and if Paypal find in their favour (when you submit advert and photos along with explanation they might not) then a full refund is only issued once saddle received in same condition that you sent it.
 

holeymoley

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 November 2012
Messages
4,325
Visit site
Trouble with paypal (as well as ebay) is, the very often side with a buyer. I sold a exensive hermes watch on ebay privately, seller paid via paypal, then claimed it wasn't genuine and demanded money back, even though I could prove it was I had to fund return insured postage and refund the buyer as they freeze the funds in your account and will take it no matter what you say.
Paypal have charged back the cost of things I have sold on facebook when the buyer's claimed they are not as described (they bloody well were) so I am very wary of selling anything as a private sale or as a business seller on ebay or via paypal.
As a business seller I only sell cheap things on ebay like cockerel collars and often take "hits" on those too, all I can do is stump up the money and block the buyer so they can't do it again.
There is a scam, an old one but still going on ebay where a seller sells a nice good English saddle, say for £800. Buyer gets it and then claims it is damaged or not as described, the usual old B*ll*cks that goes with it. Ebay insist seller takes it back, freezes the money in their account so they can't withdraw it or close it down.Seller has no choice so accepts it back. Buyer sends back a cheap foreign made saddle and keeps the expensive saddle. Seller loses the £800 as ebay/paypal refund them as the buyer shows proof of delivery and then loses the saddle too.
Ebay and paypal don't bother to check or care that the seller has been had, as long as a saddle is returned and there is a signature, then it's hard luck.
It is only a matter of time before this scam gets on to the facebook and other places that peope sell on if it's not already on there. Paypal simply hasn't got the time or the knowledge of being able to tell one black leather saddle apart from another one.


That's awful! :(

I'm still waiting to hear back from the buyer. Looks like the easiest option is to get it sent back and then check over before refunding.... I think the person is genuine but I don't understand how they think they could return it...o_O

What a right pain in the backside!
 

holeymoley

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 November 2012
Messages
4,325
Visit site
Unfortunately the numbers on the saddle only indicate the year and week it was made- they didn't log them until 2014 so that's a bummer.
 
Top