Saddle uncomfortable for me

TreeDog

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*warning - this thread talks about ladies crotch discomfort* I have a 16" heather moffett flexee saddle that fits my horse nicely, I am 5'6" and bum is a uk size 10/12. I generally like the saddle but I found when I ride for 1hr+ it starts to get very uncomfortable at the front of my crotch :oops: I try sitting back on my bum more but I can't stay there and doesn't feel good to be tense and resisting movement. The saddle looks balanced so I don't think it's tipping me forwards, I think the seat may just be slightly too small for me. I'm thinking about getting a seat saver (either hm or acavallo) as I've heard they can help make the seat less deep and therefore seat feels larger. Does this sound right? Or does anyone have any other thoughts on why it's causing this discomfort? I want to get it sorted as it seems to be getting worse, lately I start feeling ouchy after just 20 minutes sometimes.
 

McFluff

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Ouch. I’ve been there and it’s horrible. Also, when you try to avoid the pain, you will be altering the balance, which impacts on the horse too. My saddle fitter made a small temporary adjustment for me (while I waited for new saddle). She put some flocking under the flap just above the stirrup bar. No idea why it helped, but it did. Fundamentally though, the saddle was just the wrong shape for me. Sorry.
 

TreeDog

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Also, when you try to avoid the pain, you will be altering the balance, which impacts on the horse too.

Yes I'm sure this is happening. I sometimes realise I'm sitting twisted to to avoid discomfort. I'll be gutted if I need a different saddle as I like the flexible tree. Plus having experienced this discomfort has just made me more aware of how horrible an ill fitting saddle must be for a horse!
 

TreeDog

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I’m 5ft6 size 12ish with a bum, there’s no way I’d fit in a 16 inch saddle

HM saddles are measured slightly differently to normal treed, I read somewhere at the time that they can come up large seat wise so I was dithering over whether to get 16" or 17". I actually bought this saddle advertised as 17" but turned out to be a 16", I thought I'd try make it work. I'll get a second hand seat saver for now as cheaper than buying a new saddle, can always resell easily if it doesn't work and I do need to get a bigger saddle after all.
 

sbloom

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Even if it comes up large it's almost certainly too small for you, even a very flat seat would be pushing it, and you will be trying to alleviate your discomfort so could easily end up affecting the fit. Flocking under the bars will affect the fit for the horse, as long as its correcting the fit that's fine, but a better solution to a lack of contact under the thighs (which you won't know as a rider is what's happening, it can vary in how it feels, the fitter has to use their experience and intuition) is to fold felt or something similar and insert under the skirts above the stirrup bar. Can sometimes help if someone feels a twist is too narrow. I don't think this is your problem however.

I would say you want a seat save that doesn't go up over the pommel otherwise it's not going to make enough difference, if the HM one still has a cut out for the pommel then that will work better than the Acavallo ones which cover the whole seat. You need to raise the seat up differentially, ie more than the pommel, otherwise you're not changing a lot, just adding a layer of cush.
 
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Widgeon

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I would say you want a seat save that doesn't go up over the pommel otherwise it's not going to make enough difference, if the HM one still has a cut out for the pommel then that will work better than the Acavallo ones which cover the whole seat. You need to raise the seat up differentially, ie more than the pommel, otherwise you're not changing a lot, just adding a layer of cush.

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I have a somewhat similar issue - I have a 17" wintec pro dressage that the horse likes and suits us well for various practical reasons. I use an Acavallo gel-out seat saver on it because the seat is like a wooden board. However I also get this feeling of being slightly too far forwards in the saddle so my crotch is squashed against the pommel. I can reposition my bum (which is about a UK size 12, FYI) as much as I want but it's only a temporary fix. It's not too bad - I regularly ride for hours in this saddle without any dreadful after effects - but it could be comfier.

These "seat savers that don't go over the pommel" - should I be looking at one of those rather than the big fat-all-over Acavallo? Might it help? And should I try pushing some folded felt under the skirts? What's the theory behind that?

Sorry to pick your brains like this - I'd more or less accepted that my current saddle is the best I can do at the moment and I just need to live with it, but if I can tweak it a bit to be slightly comfier for me (without affecting the fit for the horse) then anything is worth a try.

ETA - these Thinline ones don't seem to go over the pommel at all - even less than the HMs.
https://www.comfyhorse.co.uk/product/thinline-seat-saver/
 

Wheresthehoofpick

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So.... after years of struggling here are my thoughts

1. saddle isn't sitting right on the horse. You shouldn't be tipped into your crotch
2. Saddle is too small and/ or doesn't fit you.
3. Could it be vaginal atrophy? Menopause/ breast feeding leads to lack of oestrogen

I have all the above problems.
 

Wheresthehoofpick

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That should say have had all the above problems. I have every seat saver known to man. After trying zillions I now have a properly balanced saddle which fits me and the horse. And no problems.
 

oldie48

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I think how the saddle sits on the horse and the shape of the seat is key. I have vaginal atrophy and thought pain and bleeding was just something that I had to put up with. I wasn't noticeably tipped forward and although the horse had a big walk (it was always walk that did the most damage) there seemed to be nothing that helped. I tried seat savers but it certainly didn't solve the problem. I'm now riding a different horse in a different saddle and I don't have this problem anymore. I don't feel that I am sitting differently. I do have a forward tilted pelvis and tend towards a more chair seat, so I think there's something mechanical going on with my body but it is such a relief to be able to hack out and not have to grit my teeth to pee afterwards. Sorry too much information, I know but I'm sure I'm not the only one to experience this. I can't help thinking that we don't give enough thought to how a saddle fits us as well as the horse and I'm afraid most saddlers don't even consider it.
 

Wheresthehoofpick

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I think how the saddle sits on the horse and the shape of the seat is key. I have vaginal atrophy and thought pain and bleeding was just something that I had to put up with. I wasn't noticeably tipped forward and although the horse had a big walk (it was always walk that did the most damage) there seemed to be nothing that helped. I tried seat savers but it certainly didn't solve the problem. I'm now riding a different horse in a different saddle and I don't have this problem anymore. I don't feel that I am sitting differently. I do have a forward tilted pelvis and tend towards a more chair seat, so I think there's something mechanical going on with my body but it is such a relief to be able to hack out and not have to grit my teeth to pee afterwards. Sorry too much information, I know but I'm sure I'm not the only one to experience this. I can't help thinking that we don't give enough thought to how a saddle fits us as well as the horse and I'm afraid most saddlers don't even consider it.
I totally agree. I thought my riding days were over. I just needed a different shaped saddle. My magic solution is only a GFS but it just works for me.
 

sbloom

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I would say your saddle is low in front, that's the first thing I'd rule out, have your fitter out to check it, or see if they'll do a basic balance check even from photos.

I think how the saddle sits on the horse and the shape of the seat is key.

By definition these are the two things to consider, up against the rider's pelvic shape and hip conformation, and the width of the horse over the top AND its ribcage shape.

Didn’t appreciate the challenges women also have with saddles until I read this thread!

Hence my comments on your thread, I take pelvic imprints which takes fitting the rider to a whole new level. Hopefully this will roll out across the industry but I wouldn't hold your breath.
 

GarethCollins

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I would say your saddle is low in front, that's the first thing I'd rule out, have your fitter out to check it, or see if they'll do a basic balance check even from photos.



By definition these are the two things to consider, up against the rider's pelvic shape and hip conformation, and the width of the horse over the top AND its ribcage shape.



Hence my comments on your thread, I take pelvic imprints which takes fitting the rider to a whole new level. Hopefully this will roll out across the industry but I wouldn't hold your breath.

do u have details? Presumably you are not the only person doing the imprints?
 

sbloom

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do u have details? Presumably you are not the only person doing the imprints?

I am the only saddle fitter using them as far as I know, the training is available to all and a few fitters and equine bodyworkers etc have done it, but applying it directly to saddles is the missing link. And some fitters are very good at fitting the rider, getting them more comfortable and/or into better alignment, but saddles are not designed/categorised to then be able to be easily matched to the rider, especially without the sort of objective information this kind of imprint and rider assessment generates.

It's not going to be anything a riding school could utilise as their saddles have to fit the horse and then be ridden in by a lot of people, and at the moment the saddles that allow this approach demand a LOT of straightness from horse and rider too, so not for most novices.
 
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Hallo2012

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along with getting all the above checked saddle fit wise and health wise, i would say if it turns out to JUST be a slightly saddle and body mismatch what works for me is a square of old gel pad stuffed in my breeches between knickers and breeches as a cushion. It needs to be the slightly sticky gel pad-acavallo/shires sort.

i have a multitude of issues that make that skin really prone to rubbing and this has totally saved me
 

sbloom

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along with getting all the above checked saddle fit wise and health wise, i would say if it turns out to JUST be a slightly saddle and body mismatch what works for me is a square of old gel pad stuffed in my breeches between knickers and breeches as a cushion. It needs to be the slightly sticky gel pad-acavallo/shires sort.

i have a multitude of issues that make that skin really prone to rubbing and this has totally saved me

Cycling shorts :).
 

Widgeon

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I would say your saddle is low in front, that's the first thing I'd rule out, have your fitter out to check it, or see if they'll do a basic balance check even from photos..

Thanks - yes I was wondering this too but I've only just recently had the gullet narrowed a bit (it's only a wintec) as horse lost weight. I had to travel an hour to get to this saddler (the third one I've tried) but he was a helpful chap - I might drop him some photos and see if he thinks horse has changed yet again in the last few months (perfectly possible). It looks ok (i.e. in balance) to me, but I'm not exactly an expert. It's certainly a lot better than it was before having the gullet plate changed.

TBH I'm starting to suspect that it's something to do with the shape of me. This is by no means the first saddle / horse combination I've had exactly the same issue with - when I used to hack out as a teenager I had the same problem, except much worse. And that saddle definitely fitted the pony. Then I had the same issue with my share pony before I bought my own, and again I'm confident that her saddle fitted her (it should've done, the number of saddles her owner went through to find one that worked!). Perhaps I'm just a dreadful rider but I'd like to think it's not that :eek:

So, I will find some "no VPL cycling shorts" (does such a thing exist) and drop some photos to my saddler. In the meantime you can find me in a stable, looking puzzled and rolling a marble up and down my saddle :rolleyes:

Thank you all, it's nice to know I'm not the only one. And I'm so sorry you've had such awful problems @oldie48 , it sounds dreadful :-(
 

sbloom

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A narrower headplate will have helped towards rebalancing it but it may not have been enough. If it's a good fitter then at least they won't go narrower than "parallel" in order to rebalance the saddle. I would go back to them and ask their advice.

It's astonishing how different people are shaped, and also how few of them need a narrow twist, despite all the marketing around it! You may be gravitating towards the stirrup bars, trying to get over them to help alignment (yes, that can be subconscious) may indeed need a narrower twist, may just have a very short pelvis...so many reasons IF the saddle isn't tipping.
 

sbloom

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*warning - this thread talks about ladies crotch discomfort* I have a 16" heather moffett flexee saddle that fits my horse nicely, I am 5'6" and bum is a uk size 10/12. I generally like the saddle but I found when I ride for 1hr+ it starts to get very uncomfortable at the front of my crotch :oops: I try sitting back on my bum more but I can't stay there and doesn't feel good to be tense and resisting movement. The saddle looks balanced so I don't think it's tipping me forwards, I think the seat may just be slightly too small for me. I'm thinking about getting a seat saver (either hm or acavallo) as I've heard they can help make the seat less deep and therefore seat feels larger. Does this sound right? Or does anyone have any other thoughts on why it's causing this discomfort? I want to get it sorted as it seems to be getting worse, lately I start feeling ouchy after just 20 minutes sometimes.

I read too fast earlier, if you have a long pelvis and are stuffed in a 16" tree you're going to be uncomfortable. You can't know you have a long pelvis unless you have it mapped, or x rayed (though not sure that really helps "measure" it!), a deeper seated 16" is a small saddle for any adult in terms of soft tissue. Even if a flat, open seat that's brilliantly webbed and strained it will be too small for many teens/skinny adults. If you're trapped between pommel and cantle something has to give and it sounds like crotch discomfort may be the price here.

If you can get a seat saver that has no padding on the cantle or pommel, just in the middle (you could add 5mm yoga mat across the middle under a thin seat saver like a Thinline) then it may be enough to help.
 

Widgeon

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A narrower headplate will have helped towards rebalancing it but it may not have been enough. If it's a good fitter then at least they won't go narrower than "parallel" in order to rebalance the saddle. I would go back to them and ask their advice.

It's astonishing how different people are shaped, and also how few of them need a narrow twist, despite all the marketing around it! You may be gravitating towards the stirrup bars, trying to get over them to help alignment (yes, that can be subconscious) may indeed need a narrower twist, may just have a very short pelvis...so many reasons IF the saddle isn't tipping.

Thank you - I always appreciate the amount of time you put into helping people on here. I find it frustrating when people are so ready to shout "get a saddle fitter" when in reality it's actually incredibly difficult to find and access a saddle fitter who is interested enough to go beyond the very basics. The concept of a whether a saddle fits a *rider* (not just the horse) is something that doesn't seem to cross some fitters' minds. I know I sound very bitter and grumpy but I feel a bit disillusioned by the whole thing really. At least I think the fitter I've found now is switched on so hopefully onwards and upwards!
 

sbloom

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Thank you - I always appreciate the amount of time you put into helping people on here. I find it frustrating when people are so ready to shout "get a saddle fitter" when in reality it's actually incredibly difficult to find and access a saddle fitter who is interested enough to go beyond the very basics. The concept of a whether a saddle fits a *rider* (not just the horse) is something that doesn't seem to cross some fitters' minds. I know I sound very bitter and grumpy but I feel a bit disillusioned by the whole thing really. At least I think the fitter I've found now is switched on so hopefully onwards and upwards!

It does cross their minds, but the industry is led in a particular way, with particular parties involved, who are not engaging with these new approaches so the knowledge and training just isn't there. I will say though that, so far, in order to provide this level of rider fit we can't stick with old models of fitting the horse and therefore the whole industry, the way we make saddles, the amount we bend over backwards to try and fix saddles for crooked horses and riders, just can't go on. Lip service is paid to asymmetry but it's often oversimplified ("most saddle slip is caused by the horse" - but who's keeping the horse crooked?!) or poorly delivered and understood. My mentor would be seen as a maverick and operates entirely outside established channels, as do I.
 

Sossigpoker

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My cob can only take a 17 inch saddle and the first one I had fitted by a terrible saddler was way too small for me.
My current,.great saddle fitter , resolved this by finding a saddle with a wider seat so it gives my thigh bone more room. It's stil 17 inch but I feel like it's a "big" saddle. The difference has been amazing.
 

Hallo2012

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Cycling shorts :).

didn't work. honestly i have tried every type of padded underwear and every medical dressing and this is all that works, i suspect because the gel has some give and can move without abrading the skin as its a jelly consistency where as the padding in most shorts etc doesn't have any glide/give.

also you can see the line under breeches, the gel pad is invisible :)
 

ester

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Wintecs are the worst for this IME but my shares kent and masters saddle isn’t great either.
As I cycle long distances too I have ‘stuff’ and quite a bit of uncomfortable fanny experience.

I have a HM seat saver but the cut out isn’t really large enough to make a difference.

I sometimes use cycling knickers not shorts tho I have plenty ?, knickers aren’t as bulky and I’d say the main advantage is to reduce friction because the chamois pads are shiny and have give - they are designed to stretch every which way and glide, it’s imperative on a bike so not sure what you’ve had hallo. The main issue can be that you end up adding bulk where you really don’t want it. Which is where hallo’s square might well be more useful :)

I’ve actually ended up just using my chamois cream on my front bits when I ride (paceline buttr her) as has my mum on my recommendation ?- there’s clearly a genetic element! You can buy it in small sachets if you want to try first.
 
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milliepops

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Wintecs are the worst for this IME


oh yes. I am very much Not A Wintec Person. my welshie came with one and i would ride her out on a hack and have to get off and lead her home because even when in good balance for her it was simply dreadful for me. the only way i can ride in them is in a terrible chair position with my pelvis totally tilted. Yikes.
 

TreeDog

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An update on my original post: I tried a hm seat saver but it felt like I was perched and too far from the horse. Apparently I'd measured the saddle slightly wrong and it is actually 17" though, which in theory I should fit in fine.

Long story with struggles to get saddle fitter availability, I tried to change saddle but we've ended up back with this one as of a few months ago. It's slightly better after flocking adjustments but still not great for me. However I'm working on improving horse's topline and saddle fitter said it's not worth changing saddle yet as this one is working for him ok, but maybe in a few months if he changes shape more. I use a shires faux sheepskin seat saver which I'm thinking of sewing some pad or foam material onto it to make a sort of shim.
 
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