Saddles and trees

[planete]

I am trying to find a proper saddle for Woody coblet and decided to get him properly assessed and measured. Ideally I would like a good saddle but can only afford a second-hand price (< £1000). I have been very helpfully provided with a list of possible saddles providing they are built on a particular couple of trees, the Hunter tree used by Harry Dabbs and the Classic tree used by Ideal. I have now been told !hat Harry Dabs will use the Hunter tree in any of their models if requested but no seller seems to know what tree is in their saddle. To compound the problem the saddle has to be 16" and XW. I have trawled all the online businesses that offer trials, Facebook saddle sites and eBay and put wanted ads in vain.

I ended up once before spending a fortune trying to find a saddle my Lipi x Arab liked, going through saddles fitted by reputable saddlers again snd again until somebody came, put bare trees on his back and said "this one" and, as I was then young and earning, I bought the new saddle made on this tree and he wore it until he retired. I am trying to do the same only on the cheap this time. Any tips on how to achieve this would be very gratefully received, especially by my long-suffering hips. Schooling an extra wide pony in a glorified bareback pad is not much fun when you are past your prime!

 

[fredflop]

Find a saddler that brings saddles out with them

 

[planete]

Find a saddler that brings saddles out with them

The likelihood of local saddlers bringing me something I can afford made on the trees that will fit my horse is nil. i will end up spending a fortune again on what they will say should fit. Been there too many times. And that has included some master saddlers, particularly a notorious south of England one. And one who told me a fore girth would make his saddle fit when it kept creeping up my horse's neck!

 

[soloequestrian]

Don't most saddles have a serial number? If you get that from any that are for sale and then go back to the makers with it they should be able to tell you what tree is in the saddle.
Alternatively, Heather Moffett saddles are made on leather trees so have some flexibility. Easy to get one under £1000.

 

[Dontforgetaboutme]

In my experience what should fit and indeed looks to fit may not be accepted by the horse. I went through a K&M compact, Monarch GP & Ideal VSD before buying a AH Sport. Was nearly double the price of first 2 but completely sorted the slipping forward and lifting i’d had. Worth the cost, I’m careful with it so will hopefully last us a long time.

 

[jnb]

If you have the serial number, the saddle maker can confirm which tree the saddle is on.
I had this issue with my cob - ended up buying 2 x new saddles
Am now v poor and have a Black COuntry GPD 17.5" XW on a Freedom tree spare, if anyone wants one

 

[sbloom]

Yes, get the serial number. It's why I love fitting standard saddles where the tree is almost always the same in the same model, keeps things a lot easier but even then a lot of sellers have no idea what they have (despite me writing it on every single fitting sheet they ever have, as well as the receipt when they buy it!).

I would say there are other specialist options that the fitters you're dealing with aren't aware of.

 

[planete]

Don't most saddles have a serial number? If you get that from any that are for sale and then go back to the makers with it they should be able to tell you what tree is in the saddle.
Alternatively, Heather Moffett saddles are made on leather trees so have some flexibility. Easy to get one under £1000.

I am trying a Flexee next week to see if it would work for us as a stop gap, thanks. sbloom I despair at the description of some saddles in the ads I have been browsing, from the space between the D rings for width to some of the length photos with the tape in the wrong place!

This post was really a`sneaky attempt at flushing out any potential sellers of my wanted saddles. Are you all sure you have not got one tucked away forgotten in your tack rooms? I would gladly throw in a humongous chocolate cake with the price!

 

[Shysmum]

We are Barefoot Cheyenne treeless, never looked back !

 

[Littlewills]

I've got an ideal XW on a classic tree for sale, but its 16.5". Sods law!

 

[planete]

We are Barefoot Cheyenne treeless, never looked back !

I bought him a Cheyenne size 0, it still swamps him and I feel perched on it. I think it is the VPS system in the new ones I cannot get on with as I used to love the old one I had, it moulded to the horse like a glove.

I've got an ideal XW on a classic tree for sale, but its 16.5". Sods law!

I know, it is all very frustrating. I keep seeing the right saddles but they are W instead of XW, or 16.5 instead of 16, or they are called GP or working hunter but turn out to be built on the wrong tree whose name is totally different to that of the saddle. I am beginning to think that the basic information necessary for riders to choose a saddle should be stamped on all saddles, making it clear what width and length they are and which tree it is built on. I found a new reduced Ideal the other day and the saddlery selling it had to go to the makers with the serial number to find out which tree was in it. Wrong tree of course but not even a saddler could tell.

I am trying an Ansur and an HM Flexee on Monday and I might well give up altogether on a treed saddle if the pony and I like one of them. Too much hassle. I have spent hours trawling the internet and ringing people and am too busy otherwise to carry on with what is turning out to be a frustrating waste of time.

 

[awelshandawarmblood]

Oh I feel your pain!

I'm after a saddle for my youngster but literally my area is THE WORST for fitters! Not one carries stock & the ones that do wont come unless theres eg 4 on the yard that all need seeing at the same time - I'm on a very small yard so that wont happen. The ones that will come out with stock are miles away so huge cost & they only sell new! So I'm going to have to go down the route of buying/selling them & having them checked until I find one through a matter of elimination.

So envious of people who find a good fitter with various stock - literally the dream!

 

[sbloom]

I am beginning to think that the basic information necessary for riders to choose a saddle should be stamped on all saddles, making it clear what width and length they are and which tree it is built on. I found a new reduced Ideal the other day and the saddlery selling it had to go to the makers with the serial number to find out which tree was in it. Wrong tree of course but not even a saddler could tell.

In turn, the seat size is almost always stamped on the sweat flaps but it can wear off. Width can be altered so that's no help, anyone searching for a saddle independently should work through what shape the front of the saddle needs to make - pommel arch width, tree angle width, space between panels (how high they are set) and depth of panels to be confident a saddle is worth trying. I know that's a lot of factors but that's what I am assessing for every horse I fit.

It's almost impossible to know exactly which tree is in a saddle, there are literally hundreds of trees available and often, if a maker can't access their normal trees they may go to something similar, and it's hard even to recognise smaller standard ranges of trees from what a saddle looks like, different saddlers web and strain seats differently so they look different, and trees can have different bellies (making the seat wider towards the back as an example) or have a different shaped, or extended, cantle on.

If it was that easy everyone would do it. It's why the synthetic headplate saddles buy and sell all day long, because they have smaller ranges and people feel confident buying them. Much more so than them genuinely fitting the range of horses that people think they do.

 

[planete]

Thanks for your post, sbloom. I now think I am going about this all the wrong way and I am not to too sure what to do next, short of mortgaging my house and buying new. From what you say, there was not much point having somebody come and try trees on the pony after all if I am trying to buy a used saddle. I did not have much success with the treeless 'stop-gaps' either today. The Ansur I tried was not accompanied by adequate padding to stop it sitting on the pony's withers and the thickness of the HM Flexee panels made it sit on the pony like a howdah on an elephant.

I am going to drown my sorrows in ginger tea and sleep on it...

 

[sbloom]

Thanks for your post, sbloom. I now think I am going about this all the wrong way and I am not to too sure what to do next, short of mortgaging my house and buying new. From what you say, there was not much point having somebody come and try trees on the pony after all if I am trying to buy a used saddle. I did not have much success with the treeless 'stop-gaps' either today. The Ansur I tried was not accompanied by adequate padding to stop it sitting on the pony's withers and the thickness of the HM Flexee panels made it sit on the pony like a howdah on an elephant.

I am going to drown my sorrows in ginger tea and sleep on it...

Can you use more padding with the Ansur? I'm not a particular fan of them but they can work well for some, but yes, on withers will need particular padding. A fitter for Solution saddles would be able to advise more, and there are a few experienced users of them on here.

You're not really going about it the wrong way, you have two trees that your fitters knows will fit, but it IS tricky with used saddles when you have a tricky to fit horse. There are three factors in how likely you are to find a saddle to fit - technical fit - how hard is your horse, or you, or both as a combo, to fit with a saddle? Timeline - how long can you wait to find one? Budget - obviously .

If all three have the wrong answer then you're going to struggle, change one of them, or two of them even better, and you'll have an easier time.

Have you joined the group I am joint admin for on FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/1641386762817197? It's certainly where nearly all our saddles being sold privately would be and you should find at least some Ideals, and the odd HD that might fit the bill. HD are rarer on there, the Ideal WH would commonly be on the classic tree afaik.

 

[planete]

Can you use more padding with the Ansur? I'm not a particular fan of them but they can work well for some, but yes, on withers will need particular padding. A fitter for Solution saddles would be able to advise more, and there are a few experienced users of them on here.

You're not really going about it the wrong way, you have two trees that your fitters knows will fit, but it IS tricky with used saddles when you have a tricky to fit horse. There are three factors in how likely you are to find a saddle to fit - technical fit - how hard is your horse, or you, or both as a combo, to fit with a saddle? Timeline - how long can you wait to find one? Budget - obviously .

If all three have the wrong answer then you're going to struggle, change one of them, or two of them even better, and you'll have an easier time.

Have you joined the group I am joint admin for on FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/1641386762817197? It's certainly where nearly all our saddles being sold privately would be and you should find at least some Ideals, and the odd HD that might fit the bill. HD are rarer on there, the Ideal WH would commonly be on the classic tree afaik.

i have put a wanted ad on your FB group and I have looked through the ads but nothing so far. The Old Mill saddlery were selling an Ideal working hunter for half the normal price the other day which turned out not to have a Classic tree in it when they asked Ideal for me. I was pretty disappointed. I do not think I am hard to fit (5ft 2 and 47.5 kg so would fit easily into a small saddle) but I have a problem with being advised to buy a GP as I prefer a straighter cut saddle so a bit reluctant to settle for the Ideal GP.

I was assured the Ansur I was given to try was a small Junior one but it turned out to be 17" when measured in the normal way which made up my mind not to buy it. I love their close contact and low profile and am still hoping one small enough will turn up.

I have also left messages with local saddlers who keep a stock of used saddles in the hope of unearthing something. I used to fit my own saddles years ago when saddle fitters were rare and I was skint, perhaps I can find something I can use while waiting if I keep my wits about me and trust myself rather than the seller.