Saddles for backing?

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Shilasdair

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I have a Shire x Tb four year old, who I am about to break, and wondered if you had any advice regarding saddles.
She is quite backwards in her development, for various reasons, is still croup high, and I think she still has a bit of growing and filling out to do.
Obviously I don't want to buy an expensive saddle, then have to replace it when she changes shape, but neither do I want to ride her in an ancient one that doesn't fit her.
Any suggestions?
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From personal experience and I'm talking a fair few years ago, long before the 'you must get a saddle fitter out and let him persuade you that you sadly need the most expensive in his range to fit the horse at this present time but will probably have to change it again in three months after it has changed shape and keep changing ever after' brigade; you should always find a saddle that fitted like an old glove, both the horse and yourself, that you both felt COMFORTABLE AND SAFE IN. For me, that would be a Hawk Event if at all possible, but each will have different favourites!
During the times she changes shape from bum to wither high which I'm sure she will be doing regularly until about six, you should be able to pad that saddle out either with something like a numnah, poly pad or the risers you can get nowadays without doing any harm to her. It goes without saying that the width of the saddle must always be comfortable for her and her spine is free from any pressure but you know that anyway. You know her so well and are experienced enough to see any problems before they arise, I'd trust your own judgement!

Disclaimer! I'm not against saddle fitters if necessary, many people aren't experienced enough to know what to look for so they are needed for the sake of the horse, but give me a good old fashioned experienced saddler who will put himself out to find one that will fit and last any day over the ones that only seem to want to sell you what they stock themselves; also many of them only see the 'now' picture, not how the horse will develop in the future, which in turn leads to you needing them out again for another fitting and probable different saddle.
I'll slink off now, I've probably upset a few people..........................................
 
Oh well said MFH!!! Some on my yard are shocked I've had the same saddles for nearly 10 years with the odd alteration and repair and my horses haven't falled down dead from it - infact they go quite well!!
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Have you got any possibilities Shils or any friends with a bit of a saddle collection?

When it comes to backing mine, I'll use my Ideal WH if it fits, which is the saddle I use on anything that it fits!
 
Quite by accident I happen to have a couple of saddles which fit my youngsters due for backing. One is my personal favourite a very old Cliff Barnsby. The other is a Caprilli which I can change between med and x-wide.

A friend in France, now retired, used to run a saddlery and she has a leather air-filled underlay like a numnah - which she recommends. It is possible to change the shape by pumping air in at different points and she uses it for new young horses until she is ready to buy a new saddle.

I agree with other contributors about not buying an expensive saddle until you have done a bit of work. After all you will start with walking a bit of trotting and some lead rein work? With good padding you are not likely to cause major damage to your horse's back - unless the jockey weighs in at 15-20 stone!!!

best wishes
 
We have a couple of synthetic saddles which seem to fit most horses, they are light on the horse and good to stick to when any nonsense starts, I reckon you should be able to pick one up cheaply then sell it on later.
We don't get saddles fitted until they have worked at least three months by which time their shape is changing with muscle.
I'm not a fan of risers at all but provided there is no pressure anywhere a well fitted breastplate stabilises the saddle, lots of people wonder why we use them, wel with babies not only do they keep the saddle secure but they have a handy strap to grab in front too.
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Any suggestions?
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No, except to say that we have exactly the same problem with Rin the creme puff although obviously in a different size range (4 year old Sec D 14 hand stallion). Nothing in the yard fits <sigh>. We will probably have to end up buying a cheap syntheic job to use until he stops throwing himself around and then pass it on to the other youngsters as they need it.

I have heard that there is a range of saddles especially for M&Ms/natives. Has anybody used them and did they fit (when the correct size of course!)?
 
My next door neighbour had one made for her totally round highland and it was excellent, any other saddle used to slide when she mounted (she's in her sixties) and this one stayed put.
They aren't cheap though when made to measure, I'd be inclined to look on ebay for a wide fitting synthetic, our two are invaluable as one's wider than the other so they fit all our medium/wide horses.
 
A livery of mine had to get a wintc, think it is XXX wide (maybe even 4XL) for a Fell x Welsh mare, when i 1st saw it on the floor in the middle of the yard (havent a clue why she dumped it there!) i honestly thought someone had driven over it! (i asked what had happened to the saddle!)
 
I use a Thorogood it's light and kind on their backs and is very comfy. I can 'lock' into it when they start to mess around. They do do M&M sizes.
There seem to be plenty of cheap 2nd hand ones around.
 
I do mine in my Solution treeless saddles - then I know they fit perfectly to every horse, and I can alter them as the horse changes shape. They may be expensive to buy, but they will fit any horse that comes through the yard, so that makes them great value for money imo
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I really strongly believe that it matters that a young horse is comfortable in its saddle, so using any old saddle that more or less fits is not good enough for mine. But then I am a treeless bore, according to my OH
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My preference, if I can get what I want
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, is for the "old style" Stubben/Passier (my fav)/Crosby (I don't think you see those here)/Barnsby etc. type saddle, usually in a VSS/jumping oriented model to start, with at least a M or MW tree. They're tough, solid comfortable saddles that tend to have a relatively "neutral" fit which can, if needed be SLIGHTLY adjusted by changing the pad type or even adding a dense material (nothing that has to squish down too much) under pad. If you get a used one a scratch here or there won't make you cry and they tend to be well broken in. I can't recommend breaking in a horse in a new saddle, at least one you haven't ridden in and "know" the feel of.

I have used synthetic saddles and IF they fit the rider (most are too short in the flap for me) and found them acceptable, although they're not always the easiest to deal with when it's cold. I do recommend them for people with only one or two young horses though, as they are a good economic first choice which can be replaced with a more specialist saddle at a later date. I have also used the "extra wides" on draught crosses (the NA equivalent of cobs here) and found that they are, indeed, what they say on the tin - a saddle made specifically to fit such horses. Since I've seen many horses of this shape get in trouble with saddle fitting I think they're a great addition to the options. There are also specialist saddles for such horses in some ranges and I would definitely look into one if necessary.

I've had horses change saddles as much as four times in the first year of work, although often back and forth rather than four different ones. For that reason I tell people never to spend the big bucks right off the bat.

I have to say I've also seen many if not most people have bad luck with custom saddles for unbroken horses. It stands to reason the horse is not "riding horse shape" when it's fitted; it's impossible to fit a saddle properly without having someone ride in it, which is obviously impossible at that stage; and there is so much change in those first few months almost by definition the saddle won't end up fitting. I'm honestly surprised fitters will make saddles for horses that aren't being ridden yet and can't see the reasoning but to each their own and I guess it works for some. I will say though, I've had more than one horse to "restart" that came with a saddle fitted to it before backing that it clearly did not find comfortable. In all of these cases I've put on one of my old standbys and the horse has progressed as normal.

I have no experience with treeless so can't comment. I have had horses come with Reactor panels etc. but I find I'm not used to the way the saddle feels and that affects my feel of the horse. I think the best tools are the ones you are familiar and comfortable with, which will obviously not be the same for anyone.

I'm also a fan of either double ended cushioned or elastic impregnated girths, good quality stirrups with super treads, particular bits, reins etc. but then you didn't ask that.
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I really do find this is one area where having the right tools make a real difference. That said, right it right for the job, not absolute.
 
We use these http://www.gallabarfarm.com/thestartersaddle.htm 'Starter Saddles' on all our starters.

They are adjustable for width, but also the seat and rear sections of the pannals are flexible, so they can accomadate croup high horses and other tricky back conformations easily. The seat 'moulds' to the horses shape perfectly (we've never had a horse go badly in one yet!) whilst the more traditional pommel and gullet design provides stability if your youngster gets a bit giddy
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They are also very comfy to ride in, and I've jumped in them no problem as well
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I have tried 2 approachs to this in the past.

1. Buy a synthetic that will adjust for the 6 months/year or so

2. buy an expensive (for life) leather saddle that can be adjusted. I have a WOW I really like and an Amerigo which I prefer.

The Amerigo can be adjusted in width provided the saddle is properly fitted to the horses basic back shape - and there are a variety to suit different back shapes. My 3 year old is already a wide fitting which is why I wasn't keen on a synthetic for her as many of their wides are not actually that wide - or perhaps just don't suit her back shape. Anyway my Amerigo, although a dressage model is secure enough to hack out on. My WOW didn't suit my new baby's back shape but I also really like it and it can also be adjusted in width and has the bonus that I can use jumping of dressage flaps on it.

I much prefer to get an adjustable saddle as I find that horses can change shape so easily - particularly babies
 
Henryhorn, I'm sure you wouldn't regret getting one, they are soooooo useful
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One caution though, you'll end up riding everything in them; my 8yo 'riding horses WOW is now sat gathering dust in the tack room
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Everything of ours (or which comes in to us) gets broken in an exercise racing saddle. It's not only very lightweight, but fits every single horse or pony it's ever been put on (except one very very very fat 11.2hh pony). It's also very comfortable for any rider to sit on (and no, it's not the little racing saddles), the actual seat is the same size as a "normal" saddle.

Unfortunately ours is now so old and has been repaired and patched up so many times, that the saddlers say they won't repair it any longer, so may have to go and buy a new one.

We know someone who actually put their racing exercise saddle on their horse for the Boxing Day Hunt Meet and was out all day sitting on it.
 
Thank you everyone for all your help in this -- I am about to print it off and take it down to Cornwall with me when I go down there tomorrow for a couple of days.

And apologies to the OP if the M&M / native aspect slightly high-jacked the thread (which I certainly did not intend) but I am sure that you found the general advice very useful too.

This is exactly the sort of thing that this list is so strong in, but which has got rather lost in all the rather Mccarthyite slanging matches that seem to have gone on so far in 2009. But hopefully it can only change for the better from now on.
 
Thanks everyone, for your helpful replies.
I'll have to toggle this thread and work my way through all the ideas you've given me.
Ciss - no problem about widening the discussion - all knowledge I gain about horses may be useful one day, even if it relates to shorter hairier things than I possess
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The starter saddles look very interesting! Is there anywhere that carries them is stock or do you do any trade shows or similar? I'd be interested in sitting in one but not sure I would "buy before I tried".

To add to my too lengthy post above (sorry about that) I've also done quite a few horses, usually for racing, in exercise saddles and found that a very good option. Like everything else though, good quality ones make a huge difference and I'm not sure I'd justify one for only one or two horses. If you can borrow a good one it's a good option. (Be aware though, just like other saddles, they can cause back problems if not fitted correctly. And not everyone likes riding or feels secure in them.)
 
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