Saddles for the flat backed with large shoulders

[Horsekaren]

i think i'm just about ready to give up with by Thorrowgood cob GP cob saddle. Saddler has been out 3 times to make adjustments but this time after winter it seems worse than ever! , its lifting at the back, sliding to the right, seems way to long and slipping back. He his starting to nap so im sure he is telling me its not working for him, i know its not working for me, i keep slipping to the right. i know my boys shape is changing but he has been in a wide gullet the entire time so its just flocking that needs adjusting so im wondering whether to ditch the adjustable gullet system?

Said flat backed horse below, he also is'nt overly round in his body -

saddles

I have booked in for my saddler to come back asap but i was hoping to have second saddle or two to try on him, nothing crazy expensive, preferably second hand so if its no good i can sell on.
i'm just wondering if there are any saddlers or owners with horses with similar shaped horses that have found a good fitting brand.
I admit i know very little about saddles but i have been browsing and found the below two maybe's but no idea what im really looking for. im hoping to have a few on trial whilst my saddler is visiting.

https://www.saddlesdirect.co.uk/saddle-company-verona-cob-gp-10484

https://www.saddlesdirect.co.uk/contour-master-gp-saddle

I know i need to talk to my saddler but whilst im waiting to hear back i wondering if anyone else had simular issues

 

[Cowpony]

AH saddles are great for this type. Not cheap, but they do come up second hand occasionally. I got one on eBay recently for £850, only a year old and in perfect condition.

 

[McFluff]

You probably won't like this advice, but my learning from having a similar horse and trying to find a saddle that fits us both would be to invest in finding a good saddle fitter who specialised (and likes!) fitting cobs - then be very nice to them so you keep them! It will save you money in the long term.

I spent a lot of money buying special saddle pads (to stop the slipping), trying different girths (to stop the slipping), trying different saddles (under the guidance of a fitter, just not one who 'got' the shape of my horse) - it didn't feel like it at the time as I bought one thing at a time, but when I added it all up, it was a shocking amount. I've used saddlesdirect to trial saddles - but the cost of doing this all adds up. IME you also lose everytime you re-sell (particularly if you add in the value of your own time and postage etc.).

Mine is a very similar shape and I found that Thoroughgood (and Kent and Masters) were too curvy in the tree and bridged. Likewise Wintec (or Bates).

My saddler fitted mine to an Ideal (we started at XXW, it has since been widened twice and I'm about to change to a different Ideal as she has developed so much). I went with Ideal, but Black County also did saddles with suitable trees. My saddler is both a fitter and a saddler, so she templates my horse and can build the saddle from the tree up (working with the saddle supplier). I've also got a fairfax girth (on saddler recommendation) as mine has a forward girth groove. I think your lad might have too - and addressing that can help hugely with slipping.

It is worth the investment - mine is much happier, has really developed in her balance, softness and way of going, and now no longer needs fancy saddlepads or girths, and the saddle doesn't slip (or bridge, or rub). Apparently cobs aren't an ideal build for a riding horse (but they are so much fun when you can get the right saddle).

 

[Nudibranch]

I have a hard to fit horse with massive shoulders, long wither and technically quite a flat back. However the TG cob tree does not suit him at all even though it is the correct fit on template. After 9 saddles I have gone back to the pre gullet HM Flexee which is working well. However you do need to be able to fit it properly and their fitters can be like hens teeth in some areas. I fit my own but I've been doing it 30 years.
Not sure why he has stayed in the same gullet the whole time? That may not be helping. Also, wide is not hugely wide for a cob although obviously I can't see him in real life - mine's a slimmer build than a cob but still takes w-xw and xw when he's fit.

 

[Chinchilla]

Try a wintec maybe as you can pick them up second hand very cheaply : mine in perfect condition but second hand was £250 and my mare's significantly broader than your "wide" cob, 2XW when slim. and the wintec suits her very well though she is quite wide in the barrel (as well as mildly roach backed and flat as a picnic table) which you said your boy wasn't.
(Curves are in vogue right now ok...)

 

[SEL]

Saddle company saddles on my drafts. I've had the flocking adjusted so the saddle is flat rather than having a dip when you look at the underneath.

Tree is adjustable, but only by one of their fitters. Width isn't a problem - I think both my 2 are wider than your cob.

Is your horse straight? My Appy x draft had a very under developed right shoulder which meant the saddle was always slipping to the right until it had a shim underneath it. The wither tracing showed quite a significant drop-off and it is taking ages for her to level out.

 

[gallopingby]

Agree with McFluff. You need a saddle fitter who knows and is interested in Cob types! Saddle company saddles seem to fit some and Ideal H &C, also Fiona Cork if you can find one. Wintec wide didn't fit mine although one of the many saddle fitters I consulted said it did! Correctly fitted shims can help but really the secret is in finding an interest fully qualified saddle fitter rather than a generic one!

 

[JFTDWS]

I can recommend you an excellent cob-friendly saddle fitter who covers the area. She made both of my saddles for my flat backed monsters, and it was absolutely worth it.

If you can't manage that, some of the Ideal saddles work quite well and some of the saddle company ones come in ridiculous flat trees. I'd avoid wintecs like the plague - the wider gullets don't really fit wider horses properly. But a fitter would be able to suggest more options on seeing him.

 

[starfish8]

i'd try a prestige GP. the trees are adjustable (by a saddler) and suit both my flat backed big shouldered mare as well as a friend's welsh d. they're not as expensive second hand as you might think either, but selling second hand saddles is a nightmare at the best of times so i'd def see if you can get a saddler to bring one rather than buying straight away!

 

[Horsekaren]

Has anyone every tried the Easytrek treeless saddles? I wonder if that could be a good option in the interim :/ not sure if its a load of nonsense. If i'm slipping sideways and backwards with a tree who knows where id end up without a tree. Has anyone ever tried one? do they feel weird to ride?

I'm really liking the sound of the AH saddles, im happy to splash out if the saddle can be adjusted to always fit.

i'm 99% sure he is in a wide, it may be XW but he inst very build on top coming out of winter. I first rode in a wintec but it knackered his shoulder despite being told it was ok by one saddler and then not by another

As for straightness he isn't terrible but has got worse since ive noticed im going sideways.

 

[Horsekaren]

or the Heather moffett FlexEE range of saddles

 

[Moogleberry]

I have had the same problem with a flat backed big shouldered trad cob, started with adjustable gullet Thorowgood then several other saddles they all slipped to the right whatever pad I put on.

I spoke to Steph Bloom from AH Saddles and she was so helpful she came and spent a couple of hours trying saddles and tweaking the fit and we’ve ended up with a fabulous Working Hunter saddle.

We have hacked, schooled and done pole clinics and no slipping with an ordinary saddle pad underneath. The saddle is so comfortable and really good quality. I hope you find something which suits you it’s so frustrating

 

[Horsekaren]

I have had the same problem with a flat backed big shouldered trad cob, started with adjustable gullet Thorowgood then several other saddles they all slipped to the right whatever pad I put on.

I spoke to Steph Bloom from AH Saddles and she was so helpful she came and spent a couple of hours trying saddles and tweaking the fit and we’ve ended up with a fabulous Working Hunter saddle.

We have hacked, schooled and done pole clinics and no slipping with an ordinary saddle pad underneath. The saddle is so comfortable and really good quality. I hope you find something which suits you it’s so frustrating

people do seem to be saying lots of good things about the AH saddles, did you buy yours new or second hand?

 

[Nudibranch]

or the Heather moffett FlexEE range of saddles

Yes, mentioned in my post.
He may need shimming if one side is more/less developed which is not uncommon.

 

[JFTDWS]

people do seem to be saying lots of good things about the AH saddles, did you buy yours new or second hand?

I'm fairly sure there are some old posts on here about the potential perils of purchasing a new saddle from AH. That said, there are some nice saddles by them, if you're lucky enough not to have issues.

 

[Horsekaren]

Yes, mentioned in my post.
He may need shimming if one side is more/less developed which is not uncommon.

Do you like the saddle? does if feel like a proper sturdy saddle when you're on board, safe secure? is it for the horse in your pic? i know its silly to judge from a small pic but if it is the build looks similar front on, mine isn't at all round.

 

[ihatework]

A few thoughts / observations …

Specialist brand saddles (e.g. AH, although I have no experience of these and my comment isn’t aimed directly at them) – if they work for you then great. Phew. Problem solved. If they don’t be aware that they are often made to measure, with not much in the way of comeback if it doesn’t go to plan. Resale on relatively unknown brands is tricky. If it doesn’t work you should expect to take quite a significant financial hit on the saddle.

Saddles slipping … it’s not always as clear cut as the saddle not fitting.
A wonky rider can made it slip. Are you straight?
A lame horse can make it slip. Are you sure horse is sound? (Period of issues, a rest, come back good now deteriorating?) especially considering you don’t work him on a good surface.

Before diving down the road of spending £££££ on saddles, try others on him. If you try a few others and they all slip, it’s probably something to do with you/him rather than the saddle. If they don’t slip then maybe you can be more confident it’s a problem with your current saddle.

 

[Moogleberry]

people do seem to be saying lots of good things about the AH saddles, did you buy yours new or second hand?

I did splash out and buy new because this time I wanted to make sure I got it right (0% interest credit card made it easier) I saw someone had posted about mixed quality with AH Saddles, my understanding it the company split a few years ago and there were some issues surrounding that but the genuine Andrea Hicks Saddles didn’t seem to have any problems show up on the research I did

Maybe contact Steph Bloom? She was more than happy to discuss my problems and there was no pressure to book a fitting

 

[Horsekaren]

A few thoughts / observations …

Specialist brand saddles (e.g. AH, although I have no experience of these and my comment isn’t aimed directly at them) – if they work for you then great. Phew. Problem solved. If they don’t be aware that they are often made to measure, with not much in the way of comeback if it doesn’t go to plan. Resale on relatively unknown brands is tricky. If it doesn’t work you should expect to take quite a significant financial hit on the saddle.

Saddles slipping … it’s not always as clear cut as the saddle not fitting.
A wonky rider can made it slip. Are you straight?
A lame horse can make it slip. Are you sure horse is sound? (Period of issues, a rest, come back good now deteriorating?) especially considering you don’t work him on a good surface.

Before diving down the road of spending £££££ on saddles, try others on him. If you try a few others and they all slip, it’s probably something to do with you/him rather than the saddle. If they don’t slip then maybe you can be more confident it’s a problem with your current saddle.

I did wonder if it was me but he was hacked out by a friend and ridden by another friend the other day and it slipped in the same place, to the right.
I have a back person coming out soon but in all honestly i think i have always felt a bit wonky in the saddle, i just assumed it was me.

 

[Nudibranch]

The HM feels to me like a normal saddle. It is treed but it's a leather tree so flexible. Certainly no issues with stability. If you have a bit of an armchair seat it might feel odd as the stirrup bars are set back but if you've ridden bareback/classical/treeless or just have a correct seat it will feel fine. No less stable or secure than a regular saddle imo which I couldn't say for a fully treeless.

I do use it on the beast in the post - 17.2 old style warm blood i.e TB x Shire (xPWB). He's not round at all and his back is reasonably similar to yours. He is a w/xw in TG trees tho.

 

[Spottyappy]

I tried easy trek on a new forest mare. Awful saddle! If you were jumped or bounced out of it, it went flat. Did not feel safe at all.
I have an AH saddle for my welsh mare. I had tried all sorts, but being a typical welsh, nothing fitted well.
We don’t do much,light hacking mostly, and it was expensive. I had a couple of issues, initially, but Steph sorted everything and now both me and my mare are very happy.

 

[buddylove]

Sorry, I don't know how old he is, but if he is still growing I would avoid anything that is not very adjustable. I fell into that trap with one of the brands mentioned and it cost me a lot of money before I gave up. I now have a WOW which I love and has just been adjusted to fit my new horse with minimal cost. You can pick up lots of parts second hand once you have got a prescription from a fitter.

 

[rara007]

Ideal? Our cob has a bespoke super wide one. Slipping to one side is relatively unlikely to be the saddles 'fault' though if a saddler was happy with its symmetry and it's not shocking.

 

[Rowreach]

Smart Native if you want something that will fit him as he changes, and will fit you too.

 

[JJS]

I've tried to find a picture from a reasonably side on angle so you can see that Mary's a similar shape, but this is about the best one I have on Imgur, so not ideal.

She also has a flattish back with big shoulders, and although she has a reasonable wither for a cob, she's still a little croup high. She was in a medium-wide Farrington when in work, which seemed to suit her nicely. You'd expect her to need something with a bit more width, but I find that they always come up smaller in standard saddles compared to adjustable ones.

 

[ozpoz]

I'd go for a Smart Native too which will always fit him - but I'd also have him checked for hind limb lameness.

 

[sbloom]

I'm fairly sure there are some old posts on here about the potential perils of purchasing a new saddle from AH. That said, there are some nice saddles by them, if you're lucky enough not to have issues.

We had one unhappy customer who mentioned the issue a lot here on the public forum and was pming people to avoid us. She ordered a fully custom saddle (of a size, style and colour we would struggle to sell on full stop), was offered as much customer service as we could muster at the time (our fitter had just gone into hospital for a double hip replacement) when the saddle seemed to not be right and, after much delay on her part in sending the saddle back, we made a full refund. A full refund on a custom saddle. This is the first time I've responded despite immense provocation including from her friend, to me, on Facebook (I was not the fitter!).

Quality issues - yes, we split from another company over 8 years ago and there is still occasional confusion. We changed workshops a few years back too, the quality was getting inconsistent at the previous one. Since then we have worked to keep our quality as high as possible and generally everyone thinks our saddles are beautiful.

If anyone has any questions I'm always happy to answer.

And to answer ihatework, our saddles are almost always off the peg, rarely M2M, I agree about the downsides of M2M. We have requests all the time for used saddles and never have enough to satisfy demand.

For young horses a fully adjustable saddle can be very useful, if the tree fits. Component saddles are very adjustable and can be a great idea but there is no single perfect scenario for all horses or riders. Some horses can go through several saddles as they grow to maturity, I have one on my books who has gone from XXXW, round and very croup high, needing a very flat tree, to an XW with some height to his wither and now level, much more athletic. He is now rising 8 and a section D.

 

[JFTDWS]

To be fair, sbloom, I've had a number of people tell me similar stories about AH saddles, which is why I mentioned it. None of the others are posters on here, but they are all based in Scotland, and there were marked similarities in things which were said, and how things were handled. Of course, this is all hearsay, but it's certainly put me off.

 

[sbloom]

It's so hard as a very small company (and in saddle fitting especially, as anyone who saw my lengthy post on FB last week, after losing one of our fitters, will know), we genuinely try hard to please everyone. We speak to "back people" and vets, often working closely with them, we try and get to the bottom of why a saddle isn't working, and, if people can work with us, we will try everything to make horse and rider happy. Sometimes we can't resolve the situation so we try to refund or buy back at a fair rate.

I can't comment on cases I know nothing about (and of course even Clare the local fitter isn't able to, despite this casting aspersions on her), but knowing what really happened with the above story, and what was being said and implied semi publicly...

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Saddle company saddles on my drafts. I've had the flocking adjusted so the saddle is flat rather than having a dip when you look at the underneath.

Tree is adjustable, but only by one of their fitters. Width isn't a problem - I think both my 2 are wider than your cob.

Is your horse straight? My Appy x draft had a very under developed right shoulder which meant the saddle was always slipping to the right until it had a shim underneath it. The wither tracing showed quite a significant drop-off and it is taking ages for her to level out.

I had a SC saddle made for a Clydie and then refitted to a flatbacked IDx. The best saddle for a Draft I've ever had is the correct Solution, which really frees up the shoulders.