Saddles for trail riding

[Melelio]

So I read a discussion about western saddle fitting here in the US, and the group admins insist that you can't use barrel saddle trees for trail riding, ESPECIALLY if you weigh more than 115lbs.

My comment was that English saddle trees generally are much less weight distributing than the wood saddle trees they are saying are the only good thing.
I continued my comment saying that, with their way of thinking, most English only ridden horses - including foxhunters, jumpers, and trail horses - must always then be terribly sore from hours out on the trails; especially the foxhunters who work quite hard and long.

I am curious about all your experiences with English only saddles and trail, especially foxhunting and cross country over fences riding. Are you using anything special to help weight distribution when out there? When I was foxhunting in Virginia, there was nothing special at the time (80s-90s) that I was aware of.

Thanks.

 

[Widgeon]

I don't know loads about saddles but I do know (!) that English saddles are much lighter than Western (of any kind) and their trees are typically more flexible, plus they have wool stuffed panels in a way that Western saddles just don't. Also they're fitted differently, i.e. exactly where they sit on the horse and how they place the rider's weight. So English and Western saddles will distribute weight in different ways and are quite different beasts really. I'm not sure I follow the point about English trees being less good than trees made of wood, because the best quality English saddle trees have traditionally always been wooden.

Regarding not using barrel saddles for trail riding, surely that's because barrel saddles are built primarily to be lightweight for a small-ish rider who's constantly shifting their balance, instead of having the main focus on distributing heavy weights over days in the saddle? To find a similar English analogy, I guess most people wouldn't do thirty mile trail rides in the same saddle they use to SJ 1.2m classes.

I do agree though, that in the past there probably were a lot of hunters sore from having fat men who couldn't really ride crashing about on their backs several mornings a week. A Western saddle probably would've been more forgiving on the horse in that regard. Bit tricky for getting the fat men over hedges though.

 

[Exasperated]

So I read a discussion about western saddle fitting here in the US, and the group admins insist that you can't use barrel saddle trees for trail riding, ESPECIALLY if you weigh more than 115lbs.

My comment was that English saddle trees generally are much less weight distributing than the wood saddle trees they are saying are the only good thing.
I continued my comment saying that, with their way of thinking, most English only ridden horses - including foxhunters, jumpers, and trail horses - must always then be terribly sore from hours out on the trails; especially the foxhunters who work quite hard and long.

I am curious about all your experiences with English only saddles and trail, especially foxhunting and cross country over fences riding. Are you using anything special to help weight distribution when out there? When I was foxhunting in Virginia, there was nothing special at the time (80s-90s) that I was aware of.

Thanks.

Well, fox hunting has changed beyond belief, as in, is illegal!
Trail hunting, with the foxhounds following scent, has replaced it, theoretically with pre determined routes, checks, destinations etc, so the traditional possibility of finishing miles from base necessitating hours of hacking home, has diminished. But hunters often did very long days, even when their riders changed to ‘second horses’, when they were ridden both to and from the Meet, as well as the hunting. Generally their backs hardened up during their fittening programme, and while cubbing started (c. August / September), and obviously as the season continued - but usually in standard English riding saddles, very occasional side saddle. Grooms often used surgical spirit to help this.
Cross country jumping: probably a more forward cut saddle such as event riders use, generally a cross country competition is intense activity, but for a short time for the individual horse.
Pleasure rides, up to c.25 miles are typically conducted in the horse’s usual, English, saddle.
Proper long distance - riders usually buy into more specialised saddles, lighter, wider bearing surfaces etc. Two people I knew that competed in the 100 mile rides, used western and / or Australian stock saddles, depending on what distance and stage of fittening they were at.
Any use?!

 

[Widgeon]

Pleasure rides, up to c.25 miles are typically conducted in the horse’s usual, English, saddle.

That's a good point, maybe the OP can answer this one - a lot of people in the UK (historically and in modern times) will ride in a GP, or "general purpose" type of English saddle. It's designed to be fairly comfortably functional for lots of different things - jumping, hunting, hacking (trail riding), flatwork. Does such a saddle design exist in the Western world? Or are they all quite specialised to particular disciplines? I was under the impression that the latter is true but is that correct?

 

[Orangehorse]

Hunting days are not all that long. Meet at 11.00 a.m. would usually be finishing around 3.00 ish, lots of stopping and starting it isn't constant.

Endurance riders I know use western or australian type saddles, which were designed for long days working for horse and rider. I always think of endurance riding as like Grand Prix racing cars, they are working at speed for several hours so everything has to be right. A saddle that is OK for every day hacking, even hunting, might not be OK for endurance where they are cantering and trotting for hours.

If you think of the old Army saddles, where the horses were on the move for hours carrying up to 20 stone in rider and equipment and feed for man and beast, they had extended back panels to spread the weight of the saddle, and I believe that they had frequent stops while on the march.

 

[sbloom]

Saddles all have different purposes, and there is massive variety within English saddles. A close contact (foam panelled) jump saddle should not be used for longer rides, it's designed to support the weight on the rider on landing over a fence, and to put them in balance ie over their feet, when in two point. Not at all what's suitable for a long ride.

A good GP saddle with decent panels would definitely be better but so often they don't balance the rider THAT well, so as the miles increase looking at a more specialist endurance saddle is often the best option. Some may be more western or stock saddle base, but how a saddle looks formmthe top may not be a reflection of what's underneath, witness some ranges of treeless saddles that have all the same underpinnings but look completely different on top.

Every design of saddle, every individual fitting in terms of how it helps the horse best carry the rider, is different.

 

[Melelio]

Thanks all. In the western world there are alot of different tree types for the various functions. This person, though, seemed to say that NO HORSE should be trail ridden (which usually means 2-5 hours of WTC, various speeds and stops, etc...) in a barrel saddle tree, which IMO has far more weight bearing than any English saddle tree. Yet those who only ride English trail ride the same way, so...that's where his idea seems SO rigid.

And as far as the English wool flocking, most western riders use thick pads of various material. I prefer full wool pads, usually 1/2" to 3/4" (never more) under mine. Western riders don't ride the saddle straight on the back, and I believe that where the front of the saddle tree sits is the same, both English and Western. Just behind the shoulder blade. (or that's where it SHOULD be western; so many western folk pull the saddle OVER the shoulder blade).

I still can't understand his reasoning. It's as if he wants everyone to ride ranch saddles everywhere they trail ride or pleasure ride. Of course, he's a saddlemaker, so <shrug> I was simply curious if a majority English saddle riding community found any issues with their 'lil bitty' English trees. I've never heard of them being an issue other than fitting correctly, as in any other saddles.

 

[Widgeon]

Thanks all. In the western world there are alot of different tree types for the various functions. This person, though, seemed to say that NO HORSE should be trail ridden (which usually means 2-5 hours of WTC, various speeds and stops, etc...) in a barrel saddle tree, which IMO has far more weight bearing than any English saddle tree. Yet those who only ride English trail ride the same way, so...that's where his idea seems SO rigid.

I would be horrified if barrel saddles were really all so poor at weight distribution that they were unsuitable for a three hour trail ride (which is nothing, really, in terms of distance / time on the horse). If they work that badly then they shouldn't be in use at all, for anything - which seems highly improbable and a bit ridiculous. I think I'm with you on this one - his statement seems so generic as to be suspect! A quick look at any American forums or social media groups will prove that there are many people who trail ride in their barrel saddles, because the saddle fits them and the horse and they like it. Personally I would ignore him. He seems to have a pet peeve and this is it.

 

[sbloom]

Any saddle that is made to be ultra stable under extreme external physical forces, especially if it's not made to specifially stabilise that rider, on that horse (via their own skeleton shape) has the danger of not allowing the horse to move as well as possible. I know very little about western saddles, but if we look at polo saddles then no, I wouldn't recommend them for 3 hour rides (or, in fact generally, have a look at many polo horses' toplines), nor something like an ultra close contact show saddle with 1-2cm rubber panel.

Also bear in mind that saddle placement does depend on how the saddle is designed to carry weight. If it's designed to spread pressure along its whole length, such as with a British style saddle with gussets in the rear and often front panels, the tree points MUST be set 5cm, give or take, behind the scapula back edge. Other saddles are designed to carry more weight in the middle, at the base of the wither, and they can be set a little further forwards. Many different types of fundamentle saddle design means there are few hard and fast rules about saddle fit, just that a well fitting saddle allows a horse to move well.

I don't know which maker this is so can't comment further, it's a complex area.