Saddles...help...all thoughts appreciated

[DabDab]

I'm currently scratching my head over the issue of wanting a new saddle for Arty. She is currently in an ideal Jessica, which fits her well enough, but I'm getting to the point where I can't bear to ride in it anymore - the seat is just too flat and wide in the twist for me 😔. And actually I rode her in Dab man's saddle yesterday and it wasn't too wide at all anymore so I think she might be knocking on the door of getting too wide for the Jessica anyway. I would just use his saddle on her but realistically it is a bit too long for me to want to use it on her regularly, and because of this there is a bit of movement at the back of it I think.

So (after that ramble) I'm after something else for her that is relatively narrow through the twist and deep seated for me, but will also fit he slightly unusual dimensions. She's got back conformation somewhat similar to an Arab - short backed and narrow through the chest but wide with a moderate wither and very flat profile. Looking for a dressage saddle.

Is a Wow a good idea? If so how easy are they to fit yourself? The gutter for this area us a very good fitter but is a bit scatty to organise things with so having to get out for multiple adjustments might be problematic with my schedule how it is at the moment.

Any other suggestions? Adjustable is a bonus given her age and that as she puts on top line she seems to be getting wider. Open to treeless but must be able to get away with it in a dressage comp.

Sorry for the essay...

 

[Melody Grey]

I have a second hand Sue carson harmony which I absolutely love. Not sure how it compares with the twist, although I'm quite dinky; size 8, narrow hips (formerly broken- long story!) and I manage fine, even with a sheepskin seat saver on it.

It's a wide and has flair so is quite adjustable through that and so far has fit everything I put it on. I know there are newer models too which might be worth considering?

 

[ozpoz]

I ride in a Solution Smart dressage, a narrow twist is important to me, (hip issues too).
Being flexible, they are ideal for arab shapes and are fully competition legal.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Honestly get yourself to a good fitter, could suggest loads but you need to see the saddle in the horse...

I have two with a flat back profile, though not flat across, they are in Equipe and an Utopia. Utopia is adjustable the Equipe isn’t.

 

[Melody Grey]

Ozpoz- forgive my ignorance (I no longer compete)- what determines whether a saddle is competition legal? I haven't heard of this or considered it before.

 

[ycbm]

A WOW is a great idea, but no they are not easy to fit yourself until you know their idiosyncrasies inside out. WOW asked me to become a fitter for them last year, so they are also short of fitters, and as with all saddles some fitters are better than others. If I was near you I'd come and fit it for you for a mug of tea and a biscuit

But for your criteria of adjustability and narrow twist, deep seat, high wither, short back, they can't be beaten imo.

 

[ycbm]

Ozpoz- forgive my ignorance (I no longer compete)- what determines whether a saddle is competition legal? I haven't heard of this or considered it before.

It has to look European when sat in.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Worth looking at Enlightened Equitation saddles if treeless/softtree is an option. I think the Flexees have a twist and I think a "hip saver" produces a narrower twist if needed. Vogues might not be as friendly in that regard. I'm biased on this because I love my Vogue so much. I'd only use a treed saddle now for big jumps (hahaha, yeah) or if a horse objected to treeless, which some do apparently.

My go to for a treed saddle if I had to would be a Wow... just from other people's good experiences that I know of personally.

 

[oldie48]

I've just moved from an Ideal Susannah to the new Albion K2 dressage. It has a narrow twist and is adjustable. TBh I'm not sure how suitable for your your horse but I really like it and it didn't break the bank

 

[Goldenstar]

I love my fairfax Rebecca .
Super comfy and narrow in the twist .
I hated the wow with a vengeance so make sure you try before you buy if you go down that route .

 

[Melody Grey]

It has to look European when sat in.

Ooooh, I see- that makes sense....although I wouldn't have even considered competing in something that didn't! I guess it's with the increasing availability of treeless saddles, some of which look like stock saddles etc?

Every day is a school day

 

[DabDab]

Honestly get yourself to a good fitter, could suggest loads but you need to see the saddle in the horse...

I have two with a flat back profile, though not flat across, they are in Equipe and an Utopia. Utopia is adjustable the Equipe isn’t.

Suggest away! The difficulty is that all of the good fitters that I know of around here have particular brands that they specialise in so I need a starting point of the sort of thing I'm interested in really...

 

[ozpoz]

I don't know exactly what makes it legal It depends on the rules of the organisation, e.g. British Dressage, BE, etc. I think there are some safety and design features taken into consideration, as well as appearance.

 

[DabDab]

A WOW is a great idea, but no they are not easy to fit yourself until you know their idiosyncrasies inside out. WOW asked me to become a fitter for them last year, so they are also short of fitters, and as with all saddles some fitters are better than others. If I was near you I'd come and fit it for you for a mug of tea and a biscuit

But for your criteria of adjustability and narrow twist, deep seat, high wither, short back, they can't be beaten imo.

How about a vat of tea, a pack of biscuits (the good ones) and a bottle of wine? 😁

Ok, might try to get the fitter back out then

 

[DabDab]

I ride in a Solution Smart dressage, a narrow twist is important to me, (hip issues too).
Being flexible, they are ideal for arab shapes and are fully competition legal.

They're quite specialist to fit too aren't they? Will have a look to see if there is a fitter in this area thanks - I had always assumed that they rode quite wide for some reason

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Suggest away! The difficulty is that all of the good fitters that I know of around here have particular brands that they specialise in so I need a starting point of the sort of thing I'm interested in really...

Ah yes independent fitters are a rare thing, I use Freedom Saddlery, they are beyond amazing for my tricky horses!

If the Jessica fit, then you might want to look at the Suzanna, deeper seat and bigger knee rolls. The ideal saddle company are good for catering for flat backs/natives ☺️.

Mine are super weird shapes so might not quite relate to yours 😊.

 

[DabDab]

Worth looking at Enlightened Equitation saddles if treeless/softtree is an option. I think the Flexees have a twist and I think a "hip saver" produces a narrower twist if needed. Vogues might not be as friendly in that regard. I'm biased on this because I love my Vogue so much. I'd only use a treed saddle now for big jumps (hahaha, yeah) or if a horse objected to treeless, which some do apparently.

My go to for a treed saddle if I had to would be a Wow... just from other people's good experiences that I know of personally.

I did have a flexee about 5 years ago (on big horse), but sold it as I couldn't get on with it unfortunately

 

[ozpoz]

They definitely don't ride wide DabDab. Pretty sure they cover the whole UK but if you're on an island it might take a while to arrange a fitting. You absolutely need one of their approved fitters to balance and fit the rider, as well as the horse, and they bring a selection of models and fitting options to try.

 

[DabDab]

Ah yes independent fitters are a rare thing, I use Freedom Saddlery, they are beyond amazing for my tricky horses!

If the Jessica fit, then you might want to look at the Suzanna, deeper seat and bigger knee rolls. The ideal saddle company are good for catering for flat backs/natives ☺️.

Mine are super weird shapes so might not quite relate to yours 😊.

Haha, yes I used Steph too when I bought the big idiot his first saddle 6 years ago - she is brilliant. But I am a bit of a trek from her, so would want to be fairly sure that I would buy something from her. Does she have other fitters with her these days?

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Haha, yes I used Steph too when I bought the big idiot his first saddle 6 years ago - she is brilliant. But I am a bit of a trek from her, so would want to be fairly sure that I would buy something from her. Does she have other fitters with her these days?

No it’s just Steph at the moment, she does stock a fair few brands but I have used Saddles direct in the past to get an idea of what might fit, due to the range they have.

 

[Red-1]

I tried a WOW saddle years ago when got Jay and both he and I hated it. It was an awful waste of the fitting fee, and I don't think it fitted at all.

Finn has changed shape again and I was recommended to a different fitter for Wow. I fought against it as I hate Wow saddles, but was persuaded to give it a go.

It was certainly a different experience, what was amazing was that the horse changed shape several times during the fitting, so much so that we never did get it fitted and I have to go back for another go. Although that is a faff, I am not displeased as each time she changed shape she went better and better. She elongated on her topline, the angle of her pelvis changed, she was breathing better, her stride length lengthened.

So, it looks like I am on a journey down the rabbit hole, back for another marathon fitting experience.

With the previous fitter I found the saddle kicked me up the backside, made me feel as if I was downhill. This fitting started like that but it was soon adjusted so it was level.

I am going with it as she has changed so much, 2" taller, 3" longer, totally different back profile. I am sick of buying new saddles, but I think I will gt away with adjusting the Wow.

Her previous saddle (now out of commission) was an Equipe mono jump saddle, passed as fitting recently by two saddlers. I knew different though as she had started to passively object to being ridden. With the Wow she was right back on form very quickly.

I still don't like them as much as a sleek close contact in calf, but I do like the way she goes in one. Sadly I will then also need a jump saddle

So I already sold 2 saddles but now have 3 more to go!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

If you go down the Wow route I strongly recommend a trial of a couple weeks (I also know of a scatty but good Wow fitter, wonder if its the same one!). The first time I sat on a Wow with my horse he bronked me off, was instantly better on adjustment and I never rode him in anything else. It took a couple of weeks for me to get used to it though!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I like the Solution saddles, very much, both GP and Dressage.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I was told by my fitter than some narrow twist saddles don't always suit the wider horse, I have 2 Arabs quite different in shape but both take x wide, one sounds similar to you horse his flat and short with not a huge wither, he is in a black country which fits well his also got a very straight cut working hunter Heritage saddle, the heritage is lovely I got an ex demo for £500 it looks brand new and they altered it to fit my horse.

My other Arab is really wide through his rib cage huge shoulders but has a high wither as his back is not flat like the other one, he has a Lavinia Mitchell dressage saddle which fits perfect and again it's a lovely saddle everyone who rides on it says how comfortable it is.

 

[sbloom]

I was told by my fitter than some narrow twist saddles don't always suit the wider horse,

At the Saddle Research Trust conference last year an A4 sheet was pinned up with a research summary, showing that, no matter how wide the horse, the narrower the twist the more pressure there was under the middle of the saddle (let alone any stability issues). As it's all relative you may find that a fairly narrow twist on a narrow horse is actually okay but it still might be happier in a wider twist, and trying to put a narrow twist on a wide horse should be a no-no. Sadly the research isn't available online as far as I can see, believe me I've hunted for it!

And for any engineer type people, there is one saddle I keep seeing out there, it's not QUITE been mentioned specifically, that is advertised as having a narrow twist, well the twist is SO narrow that the BOTTOM edge of the rails are evident in the channel, so there is no structural support under the rails at all. Such a big no-no, yet it's a massive brand of saddles.

 

[Pinkvboots]

At the Saddle Research Trust conference last year an A4 sheet was pinned up with a research summary, showing that, no matter how wide the horse, the narrower the twist the more pressure there was under the middle of the saddle (let alone any stability issues). As it's all relative you may find that a fairly narrow twist on a narrow horse is actually okay but it still might be happier in a wider twist, and trying to put a narrow twist on a wide horse should be a no-no. Sadly the research isn't available online as far as I can see, believe me I've hunted for it!

And for any engineer type people, there is one saddle I keep seeing out there, it's not QUITE been mentioned specifically, that is advertised as having a narrow twist, well the twist is SO narrow that the BOTTOM edge of the rails are evident in the channel, so there is no structural support under the rails at all. Such a big no-no, yet it's a massive brand of saddles.

I have always thought that it's an obvious thing, I ride my friends horse in what is a narrow twist saddle but she is in a mw saddle and it's fine, but she has a very narrow back profile compared to my horses, there is no way one of those saddles would sit properly on there backs.

 

[ycbm]

At the Saddle Research Trust conference last year an A4 sheet was pinned up with a research summary, showing that, no matter how wide the horse, the narrower the twist the more pressure there was under the middle of the saddle
.

Very interesting. Did that include saddles with Flair flocking SB?

 

[DabDab]

Thanks so much for sharing that pinkv and sbloom! It makes sense but I've never really thought about it.

Heritage does seem to be popular for this shape of horse pinkv - I'll take another look at them now

 

[DabDab]

Oo, there's a model of heritage that looks like it would fit the bill for both of us 😁. So think I'll get them out to see what they think - thanks pinkv!

 

[Littlebear]

For the type that you describe, I would opt for a Suzannah, albion slk or ultima or if your budget stretches an equipe, I had a similar build horse that came with a Jessica and I tried sooo many saddles and those were the best fit for her x

 

[ycbm]

Oo, there's a model of heritage that looks like it would fit the bill for both of us 😁. So think I'll get them out to see what they think - thanks pinkv!

I like Heritage stuff DD, but do be aware that the second hand value may be very low because it is not a national brand, and they have a bad reputation for after sales service, which I have personally experienced.

If you search Heritage you will find quite a few comments on the forum (but some of them will be about the completely different company that sells Heritage branded Asian bridles on eBay.)