Saddles suitable for flattish backs?

spookypony

spookypony

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I'm beginning to look out for a saddle that will better suit the Ballerina Mare.

The Spooky Pony seems to suit the Wintec shape, which appears to sometimes attract complaints of being too banana-like, rather well: as the saddler and the physio both say, he has a TB-shaped back (albeit very short) on a pony body, which is part of what makes him look so very odd! So he appears to be sorted for the moment, with a Wintec Pro Dressage (the Endurance model is just that bit too bulky for him).

The Ballerina Mare, however, has quite a flat, wide back. I'm looking to get her a better dressage saddle in the next months, probably something used. The saddler has advised me to keep a lookout for used saddles and then to let her know what I'm looking at. She's given me a few ideas on brands to look for, but I thought I'd ask on here as well!

Restrictions:
1. Must be dressage
2. Must work on a flat, wide back (she's a Lipi x)
3. Horse is fairly short-coupled, rider is long-legged
4. Preference is for synthetic (!!), but will consider leather, of course
 
I have a lovely Ideal Suzannah on a highland and cob tree so suitable for wide/flat backs (used on my very wide welsh c) - it is for sale btw as it has been outgrown..
 
Thanks, MyDogIsAnIdiot (great user name, btw)! Have joined and posted! I spoke on the phone with Heather Moffett a few years back when I was looking for something for the SP, and thought she was talking good sense, so will be interested to see if such a saddle could be suitable.

The mare is currently in an XW Wintec gullet. The Wintec shape does not suit her very well (though she doesn't appear in any way inconvenienced or bothered), so it's obviously something I want to address before I increase her workload significantly.
 
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The dog really is! She's a lovely idiot though :).

I had interesting discussion with someone t'other day about what Wintec gullets correspond to to tree-points on other saddles. I can't seem to find it but I think a Wintec XW is only a wide or m/w in 'standard' saddle measurements. I'll try and dig it up.

Edit: A ha! Found it.
Extra Wide: 25.3cm or 10 inches - White
Wide: 24.5cm or 9.6 inches - Red
Medium/Wide: 23.8 cm or 9.4 inches - Blue
Medium: 22.8cm or 8.6 inches - Black
Medium/Narrow: 21.8 cm or 8.6 inches - Green
Narrow: 21 cm or 8.3 inches - Yellow

For example, the points of the tree on my Wide Jeffries Falcon were 10.5" - so wider than the Wintec XW. Worth bearing in mind :).
 
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I had heard same too - a Wintec XW is the same as an Albion W.

I ride my little mare in an Albion K2 dressage saddle. Suits the flat back and the K2's are shorter than the SLK's. Yes, it is leather but has stood up well to the abuse. I bought it at a good price second hand.

Edited to add: I'm tall, so it ticks that box as well.
 
If you have short legs you might want to look at the Ideal Roella rather the Suzanna. We had a Suzanna but it really was too wide in the twist for a smaller jockey. Before that we had am Albion SL which is similar in design to a Suzannah, but with the narrower twist, we had a short flap version.
 
Keeping my eye on this as will start looking for a dressage saddle for my PRE part pred over the coming months.

From previous saddle fitting for this horse in GP and jumping saddles, all the ones mentioned in this thread so far have trees that are too curved. Thankfully my saddler carries a large range but it's nice to have an idea of what might work before I go :)

Also thinking about a wow
 
The only saddle that I could get to stay stable, comfortable and close contact on my table-backed cob was a SMART Native saddle. Available in whatever style you want. I tried dozens of other saddles, which either fitted for a short while before causing issues, or never really fitted in the first place. I'm not sure I would have had the energy to try a Solution saddle had I not been able to rent it for a couple of weeks before buying, as the saddle fitting saga was truly exhausting. Luckily I did go ahead and have never looked back.
 
Wheels said:
Keeping my eye on this as will start looking for a dressage saddle for my PRE part pred over the coming months.

From previous saddle fitting for this horse in GP and jumping saddles, all the ones mentioned in this thread so far have trees that are too curved. Thankfully my saddler carries a large range but it's nice to have an idea of what might work before I go :)

Also thinking about a wow
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If your horse is that flat-backed it might be worth looking at the AH Native Pony Saddles (I think they're still trading under this name?). They have the flattest trees on the market so should work if others don't.

How about a Heather Moffett treeless? They do PRE specific ones.
 
MyDogIsAnIdiot said:
If your horse is that flat-backed it might be worth looking at the AH Native Pony Saddles (I think they're still trading under this name?). They have the flattest trees on the market so should work if others don't.

How about a Heather Moffett treeless? They do PRE specific ones.
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Not keen on the HM ones - I tried a FlexEE synthetic before and it was not suitable, have also sat on a Vogue and really didn't like the feel of that.

I'll put the native pony saddles on my list of things to try but there are no fitters in ireland so that's a bit tricky!!!
 
Kallibear, I'm Aberdeen way, so not too insanely far. What sort of saddle do you have?

I know a Strada fitting person, might ask her too, thanks! Though a new Strada is certainly out of my price range.

I have long legs, not short; the problem I run into with non-dressage saddles is that my thigh length demands a much longer saddle than my horses' backs can take (I'm not tall, just have a short back and stupidly long legs). With a dressage saddle, that's not such a problem.
 
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Wheels said:
Not keen on the HM ones - I tried a FlexEE synthetic before and it was not suitable, have also sat on a Vogue and really didn't like the feel of that.

I'll put the native pony saddles on my list of things to try but there are no fitters in ireland so that's a bit tricky!!!
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The owner of AH Saddles (formerly NPSC) sends saddles out all over the world, will work from photos and tracings.

spookypony said:
I have long legs, not short; the problem I run into with non-dressage saddles is that my thigh length demands a much longer saddle than my horses' backs can take (I'm not tall, just have a short back and stupidly long legs). With a dressage saddle, that's not such a problem.
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Several possible solutions - more forward flap, higher placed knee/thigh block and shorter rear panel design. I generally don't recommend a larger seat size as you just end up swimming in it.
 
spookypony said:
Kallibear, I'm Aberdeen way, so not too insanely far. What sort of saddle do you have?

I know a Strada fitting person, might ask her too, thanks! Though a new Strada is certainly out of my price range.

I have long legs, not short; the problem I run into with non-dressage saddles is that my thigh length demands a much longer saddle than my horses' backs can take (I'm not tall, just have a short back and stupidly long legs). With a dressage saddle, that's not such a problem.
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If you know what tree they often come up for sale on the UK forum on the UK strada site!
 
That's good to know sbloom. What happens if I buy a distance buy one of these saddles and can't get it to really fit or it needs tweaked / adjusted or even worse that me or my horse just can't get on with it or don't like it for whatever reason? Is it normal to get a full refund in the first so many days?
 
My mare is round with no wither and big sholders she was originally fitter in a new wintec 2000 the new ones have flater panels and are not banana shaped however it has started cutting in behind her shoulders, Ive just got a Trainers Jessica in wide to try on her and it fitted like a glove its an older model. I have since found another wide trainers jump which I am trying tonight fingers crossed.
 
amandao2, Prestige Optimax, not one I know...will check that out too, thanks!

sbloom, perhaps I'm speaking nonsense, but I would think that a straighter-cut saddle is easier for the long-thigh problem, because you don't turn into a grasshopper? What am I missing? In my old GP, I had up to 6 holes difference between flat-work and jumping/XC length; have now become used to riding long distances with long stirrups, as use a DR saddle for endurance. From what I can see, the basic shape of the endurance models is fairly close to the DR models, though the panels tend to be fatter. All of which is sort of academic, as I'm specifically after a DR saddle for the Ballerina Mare.
 
I have to say that I'm not sure I see much difference between dressage and other types of saddles with long leg issues, I think it depends on how long you ride, and how much space there is for the leg. A high placed thigh block and not-too straight flap is your best bet for a dressage saddle for a long femur. The grasshopper thing seems to be more to do with smaller ponies, and long legged riders wanting their legs up around the ribcage to be able to aid with the lower calf and not have the feet miles below the belly. Again, not sure really how much that differs from dressage to more forward cut saddles. The classic is the tall showing rider on a dinky pony, with "frogs legs".

And wheels yes, saddles come on a week's trial which we do sometimes extend where necessary. Trading Standards have led us to believe that ALL saddles fitted from stock (ie standard non-customised saddles) sold to you by mail order or even fitted at your own premises, should legally come with a right to return after 7 days.

Panels on a saddle should fit the horse and again shouldn't vary between dressage and jumping in any major way, flatness is about how to fit that paritcular horse and I'd not expect to see much difference between two saddles if a horse has two. Endurance saddles vary quite a lot but tend to be most like VSDs on average. You might want to spec wider weight bearing panels but not all horses can take them, it can lead to instability in fitting.
 
Thanks for the clarification, sbloom, I see what you mean, especially about the thigh block and about the cut, now.

By "grasshopper thing", I suppose I meant that in a dressage saddle, I would normally expect to ride longer than in a jump saddle, since I'd expect to use one for flatwork (or in my pony's case, endurance), and one for jumping. In a 17" jump saddle, when I ride at my normal jumping length, my knees threaten to protrude past the front, whereas in a 17" dressage saddle, because my legs are hanging down straighter, it doesn't appear to make that huge a difference, if that makes sense? I really am a very odd shape!

The pony is very short indeed, so I had considered a GP that combines short panels with a slightly longer seat, but I was worried about what that would do to the weight distribution, and I'm quite comfortable riding over terrain in a dressage saddle, so that problem went away, for the moment.

Both of my horses, though not tall (14.1 and 15hh), have quite substantial barrels (I hasten to add that neither is fat!), so that they both take up my leg just fine.
 
I definitely would focus on the fit for your legs and not opt for a bigger seat size unless you really can't make it work. If your horse can only take a certain panel length then clearly you're not losing naything by having a larger seat put on that panel length, but what you can find is that a longer seat allows you to sit further back and this may cause issues with keeping the saddle in balance and your weight distributed correctly - the shorter the rear panel the less deep the gusset can be, so you can't simply make a deeper gusset to counteract this balance issue.

Yes, the more you expect versatility from your saddle the more you may find it a problem taking your stirrups up, but plenty of people have to select a dressage saddle carefully because of long legs, especially if you are on the Mary Wanless track of saying that you should have bend in the leg, so many dressage saddles these days have honking great blocks that say otherwise!
 
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