sadlers wells

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Hi hope someone can help me I'm new at using this and i'm trying to find out if anyone knows if any sadlers wells off spring has ever been re trained in eventing? Not sure where this post will go!!!!!!!!!!
 
My friend has a mare by him. She is lovely. She is only 4 at the moment and not long been backed. So a bit early to say if she will event her or not. Think she is looking more into dressage and showing.
 
Are you sure she's by sadlers wells the t.b. stallion as most of his youngstock go into racing and he is verrrrrry expensive as a stallion? Great if she is by him.
 
There have been a couple, but nothing that has covered itself in glory! Chris King had one a few years back it was so hopeless in the showjumping i was quite relieved he decided ground was too hard to go xc!! i am very into bloodstock and always notice if i see one by a flash stallion, it amuses me to think what the breeders would be thinking of their six figure stud fee galloping round a pre novice!! I would be surpised if someone had an unbroken 4 year old mare by Saddlers Wells though, that was already earmarked for a non racing career. trust me, its mother must be either a graded race winning champion or a close relative of one to even get close to saddlers wells and anyone who spends that much on a covering (even the maktoums) are going to break it and race it a bit unless it is deformed!! Just so you get an idea, his stallion fee is private officially but you wouldnt get a nomination (even if one came up) for less than £200 000. There are though plenty of his sons that are rather less costly.
 
Well she told me here mare was from him. And that name is on the passport. But judging by the fees that he is and what she paid for hers, I doubt it. How many Sadlers Wells are there are out there?
 
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How many Sadlers Wells are there are out there?

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LOTS!!! He's 26yrs old now and as he stands at Coolmore, who are known for having rather large books for their stallions, he probably covers around 200 mares a year - or he would have done in his hayday, it's probably been reduced due to his age.
 
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How many Sadlers Wells are there are out there?

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Far too many. He has coverted far too many mares, and produced far too much rubbish. Yes he has a lot of good progeny, but also a lot of bad.
The ones out of top drawar mares are classy, the others cant breathe and have bad legs. I used to work in a flat yard where we had a lot of Juddmonte horses, there were 7 SW's and not one of them made the track.
My uncle also brought one of AOB as an unraced 4yo. It ran in 3 bumpers (being btn a minimum of 57l) then had a wind op, came back into training and broke down.
One os his sons, Oscar, was hobdayed. His stock are following the same pattern.
 
Isnt this true of many of the top stallions though not just Sadlers wells , stallions such as Zafonic who had a wind problem and Machavellian who was enigmatic spring to mind.
I also believe though that stock out of high profile mares and by high profile stallions are often over produced at an early age for the sales which can affect long term soundness.
As for hobdaying dont you think that the steep gallops and training ragime that are used these days contribute to this.
It was suggested to me that at least one successful high profile trainers horses where nearly all hobdayed.(mentioning no names)
I dont think you can blame it all on the sires as mares contribute to the equation as well.
And yes i do own a Sadlers wells horse and no he doesnt have a wind problem or dodgy legs.
 
Yes, that is all very true. Although I dont think training regimes have an influence on wind problems, they simply worsen something that was always there.
Are you sure the trainers were hobdayed and not tie forwards? I know one who booked 15/30 horses for a tie forward on the basis of that.
 
My boys grandsire is Sadler Wells
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(Useless bit of info there!!)
 
Most likely tie forwards , just used hobdays as a figure of speach wrongly.
Will find out more this afternoon as person in question is coming to visit.
There just seems to be too many wind ops just done for the sake of it though.
Our vets have them in 5 at a time from one particular trainer.
 
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There just seems to be too many wind ops just done for the sake of it though.
Our vets have them in 5 at a time from one particular trainer.

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Sorry - a little hijack!!

But why do vet's agree to do these procedures if they aren't necessary??
 
Agree, people have lost the plot. I guess we are talking about the same trainer, people are just jumping on his bandwagon.
They think a wind op will turn a bad horse into a good one, but all it does it put an edge on an already good one.
I always think a horse always needs to show form at the level you are expecting. ie if something is being placed in novice hurdles a wind op will probably improve it to win one.
Then you get down to sellers, Is it really worth spending more than the horse is ever potentially going to win?
The people that copy the trainer in question seem to forget that his horses already have top class form abroad (and usually cost over £150k) before they had the ops. Muppets.
I do think Sadlers Wells is a bad sire, more so than others - I know its an odd thing to say seeing as what he is and what he has done,but there you go. I would never buy one.
Much prefer the Danehill line.
 
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But why do vet's agree to do these procedures if they aren't necessary??

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£1500 for not a lot of work!

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Agree with this it pays the bills.
 
Ethics? What are those?
Think your average vet on a larger scale.
Average vet gets called out to suspected tendon injury. Vet knows theres an injury, but also knows a scan wont reveal true extent for a couple of weeks when inflammation has gone down. Vets knows that people want to know now, and wont really understand if he says wait. May even get another vet out and he will lose them. So what does he do - unnecessarily charges them another £70 for a scan that is a waste of time.
Large vets, large yards. Even a small yard of say 20 horses is a big earner. Vet can go there and do 10 scopes and 10 bloods every week (on top of non routine stuff) - thats over £500 for an hours work.
You wouldnt want to risk loosing something like that would you?
Also, its probably not that the wind ops are unnescessary -unjustified is probably a better word. £1500 is easily spent on racehorses, and very hard to win at the lower scales. A lot of the horses with wind probs are never going to win a race - but the problem would be unnoticeable in other activities.
 
When i went to Ireland 2 years ago we went to a famous aution house (cannot remember the flipping name!) there were a few Sadler's Wells progeny that were going for nothing £1-3k although there was one stunning colt that made £80k. BUT i still didn't get it when SWs stud fee is something like £250,000??!
 
I have a Danehill grandson (Danehill Dancer is his sire) who we bought off the racetrack, and his half-siblings are certainly putting in the performances, but unfortunately he never did! The stud fee we were told was £25,000, so someone lost a lot of money on our chap!! I think again that he's an example of a mediocre mare being put to a really good stallion ... poor chap, racing just blew his mind and he was always really unhappy in a training regime, and is now a confirmed windsucker.
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I must say that owning him has opened my eyes to the damage that can be caused to tbs by insensitive breaking and training, and racing them when they are not physically fully mature ....
But I agree with you, I would much prefer a Danehill/Danehill Dancer offspring ...
 

I also like Danehill as i think they are tough , unfortunately he didnt really cover the right mares to get NH horses.
I have to say though the only Danehill i know of in training is in a professional duel purpose yard and he has had more wind op than iv'e had hot dinner so i think you pays your money and takes your chance with any of then really.
Covered a Danehill dancer mare this year and boy could it windsuck for England.
Also not a fan of Rainbow quest horses front legs.
I think many of the best sires have something wrong , i just think its which fault each person can tolerate the most and we all have our pet hates.
Have seen many foals this year by well known supposidly reliable sires and have been basically dissapointed by most.
 
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Qouted from someone (does anyone actually know who?):
'Fools breed horses for wise men to buy.'

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No but very true
 
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Also not a fan of Rainbow quest horses front legs.

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HA - the WORST front legs I have ever seen on a horse, was one out of a RQ mare by Deploy - go figure!! Stupid breeding IMO!
 
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What do you think of Fleetwood?
I also have a strong dislike for RQ. As I have for the entire roster at Coolmore. Would you choose any there on looks?

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I've worked with a few Fleetwood's all had good brains, but incredibly accident prone/plagued with ill luck - not one made it to the track.

Am I allowed to include Ashford in the Coolmore thing? Coz Fusaichi Pegasus is possibly the best looking horse I have ever met!!!
 
I own Sadler's Wells Grandson, he's out of a SW Mare and dad was Darshaan. He is the sweetest horse ever, with paces to die for. No dodgy leg's but has had the tie back op. I probably think he's sweet as the majority of my horses are mares so having a gelding is a bit of a relief
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Coz Fusaichi Pegasus is possibly the best looking horse I have ever met!!!


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Really? Think it looks an odd little thing - nothing seems to match.
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Maybe better in the flesh??
 
Covered a mare with a nice Fleetwood foal at foot but it did have to have shock wave therapy when born.
Had a perfectly straight foal this year by my own horse and has been recovered with him.
It had nice precence about it but for me he is probably a little lacking in stature unless you had a very big mare.
Results seem variable as i think he has been pretty well supported early on for a horse that only raced once.
Might be something in the fact that he has gone to Ireland this year as his mare numbers fell last year.
The worst foals i have seen this year are Silver Patriarch.
Saw a very nice Grape Tree Road (stunning in fact)out of a mare that had thrown an average SP and Midnight legend.
Its all a lottery really though isnt it.
 
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What do you think of Fleetwood?
I also have a strong dislike for RQ. As I have for the entire roster at Coolmore. Would you choose any there on looks?

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Probably not but i would love to be able to own a mare good enough and put it to George Washington.
I know he was enigmatic but somehow i think he might throw what it takes.
A pipe dream though.
 
We have a 2yo by Fleetwood out of Flakey Dove, he is the most impressive youngster I have ever seen (will take a photo at some point). The bone on him is obviously a throw back to the welsh cob in the dam line, but still impressive. I think the attraction was no Northern Dancer? Plus his first season was the season Zindabad was found to be firing blanks - that was why we went to him (they warned us he was a headcase that wouldnt stop - my dad said thats the type he wants!).
Funny you said about RQ, we trained his 3/4 brother - was the most fragile horse I have ever had the misfortume to be associated with.
Am thinking about GTR for my mare this year (also ML as it goes). If Danzero still shuttled here he would be my first choice. We have 3 by him and I think he will be greatly missed when his stock start performing over jumps.
ETA - hate SP with a passion! Too big and too long to mature.
 
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