safe secure job +horses or pursue further doctoral level study?

AGAGE

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I don't know what to do! And feel like I'm at a bit of a cross road in my life, although thankfully don't need to decide yet! I know that nobody can make my mind up for me, but wondered if any of you have been in similar situations, and what you'd done.

This is my current situation- sorry it's so long!!

I've more or less found out that I won't be getting on to clinical psychology training this year. I'm soon to be 26, the average age for getting onto this doctoral level training is 27/28. I'm due to finish my part time MSc with the OU in April 2012. My current research assistant contract runs out in May, and there are very few, if any assistant psych or RA jobs available, and realistically I can't move for work due to my horses +oh and mortgage.

My sister who worked for my Dad's business as a PA is now moving to London with her OH, leaving behind her gorgeous and talented KWPN (that is hard work riding wise) for me to look after. So I will have 2 horses to care for soon, they are kept at parents. In my previous RA/AP roles, I was reliant upon my sister to get the boys in before it got dark. So what ever job I end up with will need to be flexible or close to horses, or I pay for somebody else to get them in!

My Dad has said I can work for him, when my contract ends, which would solve that problem, but it would detract from my preferred career, although I'll still be doing the MSc.
My Dad would like to take early retirement and would potentially sell his business. I feel a little guilty that he might have to sell, as he built it up from scratch, and would seem such a shame for it to end, my sister and brother have no interest in taking it over. I could consider managing the business obviously with dad's support. This would give me good money, good life with horses, possibility of having kids sooner, overall my quality of life would probably better.

I've been thinking long and hard about my long term career plans. As much as I enjoy working in mental health/psychology, I feel that I have had to compromise on my horsey life. I can only ride at weekends, as do so much travelling that I feel exhausted by time I get home. I feel envious of all of my fiends going out competing etc. I can't move to a bigger house as only ever on 12 month contracts and banks don't like that when getting mortgage! We've outgrown our small flat, and we would eventually like to have kids, although if I continue with psychology that might not be until I'm in my mid 30's.

If I pursue psychology which I've done for most of my working life, chances are that I might have to move for doctoral course (unless I can get on the only one local to home) and would be without horse for 3 years. But could honestly never ever consider selling them, so would have to put on livery and financially cripple myself, parents said they would help, but don't like to rely on them. I tried living without horses during undergrad degree and failed miserably, ended up working as groom 4 days a week to get my horses fix, subsequently resulting in me not doing as well on degree as could have done, although got 2:1.

I just don't know if I would badly regret giving up on psychology as I love my work and it would seem like such a waste, but it's exhausting, with horses and don't know that it would get any easier, at least for another 5 years or so. It could potentially take me around another 5 years to qualify in psychology ,and there is no guarantee of a job, as now fewer qualified posts due to nhs cutbacks etc. Although, if I could get a qualified job I could afford to work part-time, and do more with horses.

When I first thought about it as a career I thought it would be do-able with horses, but underestimated just how long it would take to qualify, how much I miss not riding, and how tiring it is getting up early everyday to muck out before work etc.

Have any of you been in a similar situation with horses vs career? What did you do?
 
Well I have not been in your position but I have struggled to find my ideal job in life, I still don't really know.
I have recently finished a 3 year night school AAT qualification and passed it all at last, but I have had it with full time work, night school (in something I have no real passion for) and general life, I just want to enjoy life more to be honest, I am 30 soon and want more time to relax and enjoy myself.

As you say, only you can decide. I think taking over your dads business is a wonderful opportunity and personally I would give that a go, as you say, you will be studying alongside it anyway. Its a tough one, but my instinct given all the variables you mention would be to take over the business and have more of a life. Life is too short to be run ragged, you should ideally work to live not live to work.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do
 
I would always say the first one, but I'm sad and horses are my life :D And have had a rocky couple of years, the thought of being able to relax and just enjoy yourself without worrying too much about career/money ect would be lovely :D
 
This is going to sound a bit depressing, but having had to write job references for MacDonalds for former students I feel I have a right to be a bit depressed (nothing wrong with a job in MacDonalds by the way, I just don't see why someone has to have a PhD in philosophy and debts from 10 years of degrees before they can apply for their first job and end up at MacDonalds!).

Am I right in thinking that if you go for your PhD you would be aiming for a job either with the NHS or with academia? If this is right, although the economy is bad, I would hazard a guess that the worst hit sections in the next 5 years are going to be the NHS and academia. HE alone is seeing cuts of 85% this year and there is a massive level of uncertainty in this area. Even if you do get a job the reality of working in the NHS and universities is a nightmare of chronic underfunding, frustration at your inability to help anyone and you will probably be doing more mundane paperwork than anything related to your actual degrees.

Quality of life does matter, having a family, having time for your hobby, being able to afford your own home are all important and I can understand delaying all these to do something you love, but I worry that you will delay all these things AND end up doing a totally distorted version of the topic you love so much, so lose-lose situation.
 
I think Booboos talks sense. True, its great to have a professional career, but you already have a good degree and MSc (and could always go back to further training), but I feel you shouldn't have to sacrifice for a career. In other words, the career should make you money as well as using up your time. And you're not exactly guaranteed a highly paid job at the end of it all. Whereas I think running a successful business lets you have far more control over your own life and might even be more rewarding in the long run.
 
One thing I would ask is how interesting do you find your Dads business? Could you be passionate about it and enjoy running it?
 
As you have said, you don't have to decide now so try not to worry too much for the time-being. Why not see how working for your Dad goes? If you enjoy it then that should probably be the path you choose as it would give you the time and money to enjoy your life. As BooBoos said, the areas you could work in, even if you could get a job, don't have a brilliant future atm.

Do you mind me asking what your Dad's business does? With your qualifications, I'm sure you could help his employees to work at their best. Is there anyway you could incorporate your dream with your Dad's business. (I know this is impossible for most degrees)
 
I dont know what's right for you.. but I do know there are a heck of a lot of very well qualified
people out there looking for work, so to have a secure offer and a job that allows a good work life ballance and helps the family would seem beyond most peoples wildest dreams,
good luck with whatever you decide .
 
I bought my horse when I was in my third year of my undergraduate degree (I took my one and only student loan to pay for her!:o). She was a six month old weanling, had not even been halter broken and took up the vast majority of my free time. I kept her on DIY and you know what, it was fine. Friends on the yard helped out and I helped them, she often stayed out after dark, so what, it didn't matter she was happy! ;) I got a good degree in Microbiology (2:1) and then started a masters of research in biotechnology. Loved every minute of it, still had no problems fitting horse in around it (University was 35 miles from home and I drove there and back every day). I went straight on to do a PhD from there and as before it was fine. Moved in with OH closer to Uni, moved horse, even easier. Left uni, got a job with the NHS. Pay was absolutely rubbish and I had to give up and go back to a post doc research post after 6 months as I didn't have enough money to pay for the horse and the petrol to get to work! I then did a couple of high level management posts on maternity cover contracts (easier to get this sort of contract because most people don't want the lack of security associated with them). I am now, at the age of 33 the managing director of a charity doing a job (permanant contract) that is totally unrelated to my qualifications. I earn good money but I am very overworked (I'm typing this from my office today and it's saturday) I am now married and have a three year old son. Last Thursday I moved my horse to a full livery yard 4 minutes from home. I was getting up at 5am to get everything ready for work and my son for nursery (he's there 45 hours a week because I can't take any time off from my job) going to the yard, turning out and mucking out, driving to my office which is 45 mins from the yard and getting to work for 9am. I work until 5 then back to the yard before finally getting in the front door at 6.45pm. My son goes to bed at 7.30pm so I see him for around 90 minutes a day assuming I haven't got any evening meetings (of which I had two this past week). I haven't ridden my horse since September as there are simply not enough hours in the day any more. I made the decision to put her on full livery so that the time I would normally spend mucking out and poo picking can be spent riding instead. I used to show at County level but outings have just not been an option for the last 4 years.
What I'm trying to say is that the PhD itself was the easy part and no I wouldn't change what I did for the world but the career is not. Working for the NHS was in my experience, rubbish, I enjoy my current job and wouldn't have got it without the PhD but I have almost zero quality time with my family and as for doing anything with my horse, forget it! I wouldn't want to be in academia at the moment as it is always short term funding and contracts and most of my friends in academia are either un-employed or about to be because the grants aren't there any more with the current economic climate, oh and can't get a mortgage either!
The only friends I have with permanent science jobs work for Pfizer and if you have been watching the news lately then you'll know that they'll all be redundant by the Summer!
I often think now that what I'd really like is a job where I can work part time so that I could spend more time with my son. No I wouldn't earn as much but as the nursery fees are £1000 a month I'd be saving a significant sum of money each month anyway. It would give me the chance to do a bit more with my horse and actually cook my poor husband a dinner occasionally. The trouble is, if you have a PhD getting a job in Tesco or McDonalds is actually quite difficult because you are somewhat overqualified. I've had friends who've taken their qualifications off of their CV just because they desperately need any job when their reaearch funding has dried up and it's the only way they can get themselves considered for local, part time general work.
 
I've just completed my DClinPsy (Sept. 2010)...I bought my pony in the second year of training and it was great to have him as a distraction.

I'm currently working FT in the NHS but have a long commute so from March will be working PT in a local private forensic hospital and PT in my current post. Things can change quite quickly so although the job situation is difficult at present in 4 or 5 years things could be very different....you don't have to confine yourself to working in the NHS either (although when I was in your position I would never have considered non-NHS working)

How would you feel letting go of the career you've wanted for so long? I guess it depends on what;s important to you, for me I want to have time for riding and my dogs and family but I also want my career that I worked so hard to get.

Whereabouts are you? PM me if I can be of any help :)
 
The good thing is that you don't need to make a decision straight away. As others have said, the situation in academia is pretty dire at the moment, and it's not going to be rosy in the NHS either... In your situation I would find it very hard to completely give up on a career I feel passionate about (I'm in a related discipline), but remember that you don't have to do it all now. I was out of academia/university for about ten years while I had children and tried to figure out what I wanted to do. During this time I did various (part-time) courses, including with the OU (because I love studying - I am the archetypal 'eternal student' :D) and completely changed direction academically. I started a PhD (half way through now) when I was fourty - and I am certainly not the only 'more mature' PhD student in my department. :)

Whatever you decide now doesn't have to be a final decision. If you really feel you need more job security and family time now, you could always go back, to your chosen career later (especially if you keep up to date with part-time study). Good luck with whatever you decide to do. :)
 
Thanks for all your replies!

I worked for my Dad's business for a year or so before I got my first assistant job. Although I enjoyed working for Dad, I was desperate to get a psychology job, so was very focussed on that at the time. Although, I've still done various bits and pieces for Dad's business at the weekends whilst working as an AP to get extra money, so I know the business fairly well.

Dilbert- I'm based in Norfolk, and realistically could only go to UEA, although applied to Herts, essex and UEL, this year. I didn't get offered interview from UEA, so not expecting to get interviews from others, predominantly as have low 2:1 and not yet finished MSc, although have gained some great experience working with consultant clinical psychologist, that used to train on one of the courses. My concern is that competition has got really fierce, my friend who got on the Essex course last year, said that Essex has had a 30% increase in applicant numbers this year, and although I'll have an MSc next year so will a lot of other people, some of which will have a 1st at undergrad + good experience, whereas I'll always have a low 2:1, which I can't do anything about now. Most trainees that I know have MSc's or PhD's. The other thing that worries me is that some 3rd year trainess that I know are worried about finding work when they finish, due to cuts and the merger of the Trust that we work for.

I think that I'll start working for Dad in May, as at least I'll have an income and secure job and focus on getting a good MSc grade and see if enjoy working for Dad. I'll apply for courses next year, and see if if I get any interviews. I might surprise myself and really enjoy the engineering business or I might miss working in mental health.
 
I'm doing my psych PhD atm and toyed with going down the assistant psych/clinical route, but decided that I didn't want it quite enough to put up with the average of 4years of applications to get in. (And doctorate research doesn't necessarily mean no horses - if it's funded and you're wise with your money, it's an okay tax-free income)! However, a ward sister at my hospital and I got talking about it one day – she has 3 kids, two doctors and one clinical psychologist. Her son who’s the CP is infinitely happier because he has a 9-5 job doing something he loves that pays very well. Now THAT sounds like a good basis for a life owning horses!

I’d say you’re lucky to know what you want so don’t give up on it – you’ll regret it. I don’t think you can have a truly happy home life if you feel unfulfilled and hate what you spend 40hrs a week doing. Unfortunately pursuing it though will mean uncertainly, seeing what jobs come up in your area, but even working for your family allows you to do your all important MSc, and still job hunt.

No matter how it all pans out, I hope you, OH and horses are all very happy! 80)
 
Do you need a PhD to get the job you ultimately want?

There was a piece in the Christmas edition of the Economist which said that:

a) although the number of people studying PhDs has risen, the number of corresponding academic jobs that they could fill has not (and those jobs are declining thanks to cuts).

b) for nonacademic jobs, PhDs did not necessarily add more value than a masters' degree.
 
Hi, I also did a Psychology degree, got a 2.1 and wanted to go down the clinical route. Initially after graduating I did an office job which took me away from route I wanted to go on for yr 1/2. I then worked looking after children with LD and challenging behaviour. I progressed to working as a challenging behaviour practitioner which is similar to an assistant psych position but wasn't supervised as a clinical psych had set up the company but left. This was only maternity cover though. I worked with NHS as part of a research project with Manchester uni. After this I did get more interviews for assistant psych positions but didn't get a position. I then decided as clinical psych is so competitive and I havn't already had an assistant position and as it's really hard to get on the doctorate and it takes 3 years, to work in a school. I'm now doing my PGCE from September. I always thought about teaching but I did want to go down the psychology route. I now want to do special needs teaching as I know I'd also enjoy it.

You've done really well to get assistant psych positions and If I was you I'd probably keep trying to get to do the doctorate if that's what your interested in. We spend so much time at work that I think it's important to get a job you enjoy, or at least don't dread going to but I know it's hard to juggle the work life/ horsey balance. I guess it depends how you feel about your fathers business and whether you'd be happy to focus on that. I you do do it for a few years and not enjoy it it may be too late to go down the Psych route.
 
I am doing the PhD I dreamed of and have a very generous stipend and have horses. So it sounds like I have it all? I wish! The PhD turned out to be boring and tedious, way too much stress and just not interesting like I had thought it would be. I would give it up in a second to just go for a normal well paid job but in this city the jobs are even more stressful than the PhD plus I would probably actually be paid less!

I would just do whatever gives you the best quality of life, a job is just a way to make money in the end.
 
Thanks for all the advice and support. I think I'll give it another year of clin psych applications and if I don't get any interviews next year then I may rethink and work for fathers business long term.

If anything this years rejections have made me sit down and consider what I really want to get out of life. Much to my non-horsey husbands dismay, I've realised that horses are perhaps more crucial to my happiness than I first thought. I haven't ridden since November (due number of factors) and I really miss it, more than I ever thought I would.
 
snap :-) I'm currently doing my PhD not in psych or anything medical, but I manage to keep my horses and also work part time which can be tricky to balance it all- always wanted to do the PhD thinking I'd stroll into a career in academia (ha!) and now realising it actually wasn't as I imagined- loads different from undergrad. Qualififed as a teacher last year, but got the chance of funded PhD- not always the glittering star it at first seemed! Having said that, it's do-able but I wouldn't have given up my neddies for it- although I did take my mare to Uni with me when I did my undergrad! It's a question of work-life balance, however you have to be realistic and thinking about your employment possibilities and also financing your hobby (as I say the part time job does most of that but that's the way I manage to do both although I do little else!)I'm nearly 27 now so aware of that too! Good luck with your choice :-)
 
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