Same dr test ridiculously diff scores

F

fornema

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 December 2008
Messages
1,078
Visit site
I have done 2 preliminary tests onmy lovely mare both of which are the same test same horse same everything but two very diff scores. We managed 84percent and won and then today 47.4 on the same test this put us 3 rd in a large class i thought she moved a lot nicer in the one today and was expecting a much better score to be honest. Her free walk is always good and she got it spot on but we got a 4, we usually get 8/9. Also got really nice complimentary comments about her and test. Saying that it's only her 3rd dressage test ever and she's won two at the age of 19. I'd love to knowwhattelast placed score was haha
 
You may have felt you rode the test exactly the same but I bet you didn't! For example, doing the test a 2nd time may have made you more confident and perhaps less accurate at turns and markers. You need to understand too that different judges mark differently. There is so much subjectivity in judging that it's inevitable. Having said that, as long as a judge marks all entrants to the same standard, there should be no problem, unless you are looking fir qualifying results. You could always approach the judge afterwards and ask politely for some feedback, but if it was a large class, be prepared for the judge to look at your sheet again and remember who you were. Try not to be disappointed. Over-optimistically giving an 84% won't help anyone if say, they qualify for an area finals on the strength of it only to find themselves hopelessly outclassed. Equally, a low-marking judge can easily discourage riders.
 
I am for definite the second test was better I felt the bits I knew I did wrong didn't even get picked up on and willing to drop marks for them. She is a lovely horse in the second test she was far more relaxed although we dropped a massive amount for being over bent On 2 half 10s which I don't think was so justified as she was carrying herself very nicely at that point which is not a usual problem. I did feel that the first test was over marked but v pleased all the same as it was her first ever but I think this marker was too low as I don't think anyone got the qualifications they needed in both novice and elementary classes either which was a disappointment for many, but still very pleased with her for really starting to work like a dressage horse after a lot of hard graft. Very happy with her placing as don't ever expect to win by ay means but still enjoyed it and will be continuing the dressage path with her I think
 
I always find it helpful to look at other competitors scores.
You won one class with 80% - what did the second place have. A more standard 68% or 79%? .... Similarly you came third in a large class with 47% ... what did the winner have 50% or 80% ... it helps to calibrate the judging like this. I tell myself the average winner should be around 70% ... so I get 50% but the winner only got 55%, then I figure it was harsh judging that day. Similarly if I win with 80% (never happened!) and the second place is 60% that a lot more exciting than when the second place is 79% ;) ...
 
How strange, but very telling about the judging on the test where you got 47-odd! What were the scores in the top six? Good comments and poor scores? I'd ignore the score and just go by the comments, personally! Agree with Miss Tyc!
 
Judges will normally write a comment on any mark less than a 7, so getting a score of 47 I would expect a comment against most of the movements.

You say "Her free walk is always good and she got it spot on but we got a 4, we usually get 8/9. " - What was the comment ?

Also you say you don't think the comment/mark of being overbent was justified. Most judges hate an overbent horse, and will mark this down more than being slightly off the bridle, as you go up the levels this will marked down even more. At the lower levels they are looking for an even rhythm and I have seen prelim classes won by a horse that wasn't working in an outline, but had a consistent rhythm and rode an accurate test.

As others have said I would look at the comments rather than the marks.

Good luck with her.
 
susie2193 said:
Judges will normally write a comment on any mark less than a 7, so getting a score of 47 I would expect a comment against most of the movements.

You say "Her free walk is always good and she got it spot on but we got a 4, we usually get 8/9. " - What was the comment ?

Also you say you don't think the comment/mark of being overbent was justified. Most judges hate an overbent horse, and will mark this down more than being slightly off the bridle, as you go up the levels this will marked down even more. At the lower levels they are looking for an even rhythm and I have seen prelim classes won by a horse that wasn't working in an outline, but had a consistent rhythm and rode an accurate test.

As others have said I would look at the comments rather than the marks.

Good luck with her.
Click to expand...

v good advice!

I would look at the comments and see if the judge agreed that her free walk was as good as you thought, or if they offered info on what might have been missing. I find the comments really useful to help me work on what needs improving. If you are getting lower marks then you would expect alot of comments to help you out.

Esp at prelim you will find being overbent is marked harshly - a horse is expected to be moving freely forwards and in self carriage, not tucked behind the bit or stiff and overbent (an established outline isn't actually expected in prelim for decent marks - constency in frame and tempo aswell as moving off your leg easily and being supple through the movements and in balance are much more important aspects and if combined in a carefully ridden accurate test will often gain you a red one against flashier more established horses that dropped silly marks!) - if she did have a tendency to overbend in that test then you might have found that the judges felt that she wasn't moving forwards supplely (is that a word?!) and wasn't off your leg enough - you will be marked harshly for these things.

Around here some show centers are known for handing out marks like there is no tomorrow, others use bd judges for unaffil dressage and are known for being 'harsher' but are actually more accurate judges and will give you a much better idea of what you need to be aiming for.

If you get your sheet and think 'did you actually watch the right test?"! then during a break or ideally after the judge is finished there is nothing wrong with polietly asking if the judge wouldn't mind giving you a bit more of a pointer as you would like to improve for next time. Judges aren't paid for their time and do what they do for a love of the sport, so as long as you aren't f-ing and blinding about your lack of a rossie then for the most part I'm sure you'll find them super helpful (if not a little daunting to talk to!).

Lots of luck for your next tests!
 
I would never expect to get a score of 84% so would say the first test you did was probably judged by someone quite inexperinced in judging? Don;t get me worng, I am not sayin you didn;t do a good test but you very rarely see a score that high.

Also, different judges, different opinions. You should compare you scores to the other scores, as suggested, and look at the comments.
 
susie2193 said:
Judges will normally write a comment on any mark less than a 7, so getting a score of 47 I would expect a comment against most of the movements.

You say "Her free walk is always good and she got it spot on but we got a 4, we usually get 8/9. " - What was the comment ?

Also you say you don't think the comment/mark of being overbent was justified. Most judges hate an overbent horse, and will mark this down more than being slightly off the bridle, as you go up the levels this will marked down even more. At the lower levels they are looking for an even rhythm and I have seen prelim classes won by a horse that wasn't working in an outline, but had a consistent rhythm and rode an accurate test.

As others have said I would look at the comments rather than the marks.

Good luck with her.
Click to expand...

Ditto - My daughter and I have both doen RC prelim dresssage on my old girl. My daughter often won classes with her through being very precise, rythmic, consistent and obedient - outline - not a chance.

With her new very green heavy cob marks have been all over the place - at lower level I think there is a huge inconsistency in marking and a lot resting on what an idividual judge likes. For example at my daughter and cobs 1st dressage test the judge was heard to say 'wow - thats my type of horse' and she got 2nd, despite leaving the arena twice, jumping a letter markers and totaly wrecking the arena boards. Plenty of impulsion though. 2nd and 3rd tests marking was consistent (low!) but one had some lovely positive comments, the other was just scathing - not very helpful or inspiring.

Good luck with your continued progress.
 
Looking at the comments rather than the score is great advice - hopefully you will find something helpful to work on, even if the day was a bit disappointing. If you came 3rd in the class you got the lower score on (have I got that right?) then it sounds like you were actually near the top of the range.

Judging unaffiliated competitions can pose a dilemma: do you judge to affiliated standards? Try to be encouraging and mark generously? Make an estimate of the average standard or riding and judge on that? This is what a judge I used to have lessons with said to me.

That said, sometimes I've also read a sheet and thought 'er...what?' In my last dressage test I got a 6 on a movement I forgot to perform! Followed by a 3 for my 'not square' final turn up the centre line and halt - of which I have a gorgeous professional pic that I bought because the halt was spirit-level perfect. I only compete for fun and it really doesn't matter to me, but I did have a giggle and wonder if the judge was watching the test in the next arena! They are human after all.
 
I wouldn't worry I once had a 'nice mare' comment about my gelding who has covered was cut very late, has a huge neck 17hh ginger ball of muscle oh yeah and a willy!

I think judges should have an eye test every year!
 
snopuma said:
I wouldn't worry I once had a 'nice mare' comment about my gelding who has covered was cut very late, has a huge neck 17hh ginger ball of muscle oh yeah and a willy!

I think judges should have an eye test every year!
Click to expand...

We have had this at our last showing show. The judge kept calling our mare, who has a show name of 'The Iron Maiden' a big fella - makes you wonder!
 
I find it hard with dressage as although there are the guidelines as to how a move should be executed, it is still so subjective.

There's one judge that just doesn't like us! In walk & trot and prelim tests she always comments that the horse is not working in an outline - didn't think they had to for this level! I've seen what she's marked others and she does seem to prefer the finer horses (eg TB), not cobs like mine. Plus likes those that are overbent - she gives no comments about that! She also once marked a girl 2 points because she halted at X instead of G which I though was a bit harsh!...what was the question again?
 
Magicmillbrook said:
We have had this at our last showing show. The judge kept calling our mare, who has a show name of 'The Iron Maiden' a big fella - makes you wonder!
Click to expand...

lol - we get that alot with my ladylike looking MARE who even has the word Lady in her name as a give away! Lots of 'he was working nicely today', 'he would do better to work more forwards' etc!!
 
Elbie said:
She also once marked a girl 2 points because she halted at X instead of G which I though was a bit harsh
Click to expand...

Elbie - have to agree with the judge on this one, she would have deducted 2 marks for either inaccurrate riding, or error of test. A dressage judge once explained to me that if an error is made but it doesn't affect the flow of the test they often won't stop you, but will deduct 2 marks from the movement. This happened to my daughter who circled in the wrong place, unfortunatly because she wasn't stopped she also did it on the other rein and got a further 2 mark deduction. If she'd been stopped after the first one she would have realised her mistake and done the 2nd circle at the right markers.
 
Lots of fabulous advice but also if you volunteer to write for a dressage judge it gives a very clear insight into how they go about the task and would, I suspect, answer your question!!!
 
I think there are lots of good consistent and fair judges, and a few numpties! I got 3rd in a prelim once-with 89.9%! I mean I didn't even win! The lowest score in that class got 71%. So couldn't take that seriously at all. And, on the same day, but a different judge gave me 57% and said my horse had all the basics established but needed to be more uphill!!! At prelim?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top