Sarcoid advice needed (pic)

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loopyloos

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First post on here so first of all hi to everyone!

I have recently purchased a pony, long story but basically she has a sarcoid on her udder which wasn't pointed out at the time of viewing the pony. The people I bought her from were more than aware of the sarcoid but denied all knowledge when I rang them to discuss it and are being extremely unreasonable even though they signed and dated a detailed receipt stating the mare had no known ailments etc and I have proof they were aware of the condition.

Anyway I would like peoples opinion please on this sarcoid as to what to do about it.. the mare in question is a 13.2hh arab x, 15 yrs old this year. It isn't something that you'd notice - you have to get right under the pony to see it - pic was taken with me holding the camera under her tummy and taking several shots hoping one came out! I have never had a horse/pony with a sarcoid problem before and I can't believe people can be so dishonest as to sell an animal knowing full well that this condition exists. I have heard that they can spread to other unaffected animals which is a BIG concern for me as I have my pride and joy sportshorse filly, Venus (bought from another forum member on here) who is rising 2 and I would be devasted if she was susceptible to catching one from this mare.

Here's the pic...

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If anyone can offer advice i'd be very grateful, thanks
 
I have only had this pony for 2 weeks and only found out about the sarcoid on Thursday after contacting the previous owner to the one I bought her from. I am loathed to pay out any money for vets visits etc as I am seeking legal advice if the vendor refuses to be civilised in reaching an amicable agreement with me as I feel they should either take the pony back or compensate me for the problem.
 
No she wasn't vetted, I was told (gullible me) that they had a 2 stage vetting done when they purchased her and had a full clean bill of health. As she is just a childs pony I didn't bother but however they signed a full receipt stating the pony was in good health and had no known ailments. As I said I have written proof they were more than aware of the sarcoid and also have witnesses to back me up.
 
They should definately be made to pay for the problem, however you cannot be sure that the pony will not develop further sarcoids- so maybe it would be better if they took the pony back. You will never be able to get insurance to cover it as its a pre existing condition.

I cant see that they will have a leg to stand on if you have a signed declaration of health from the and the previous owners have confirmed it was there when the owned the pony.

Research shows that they can't be sure if Sarcoids are catching but i have never known a horse to get a sarcoid that was stabled with a horse that has them. You would need to take advice from your vet as to the best course of treatment for this particular sarcoid, they all respond differently, however if you go along the route of the loverpool cream you could be looking at shelling out about £800 for the treatment!
 
Didn't you look over the mare yourself before you bought her?? Or have it vetted?

Edt: Sorry, have just seen above that the mare was not vetted.
 
Firstly Welcome to the forum!

Secondly you have good timing as I spent 3 hrs last Wednesday listening to Derek Knottenbelt (head vet man at Leahurst) talk about sarcoids!
Basically they are a form of skin cancer. Which is why you should never try anything on them before consulting your vet.

As they are cancer they are not directly transmitable BUT yes flies can spread them. If that horse had another wound & the sarcoid was one of the ones that have open sores on or was operated on & they didn't take all of it away... Then if they fly was to land on the sarcoid 1st then go & land on the wound it could possibly transmitt the defective sarcoid cell into the wound & so it would generate into one at that site.

It's a bit like organ transplanting in Humans. The bodies have to match for them to transfere sarcoids.

Treating sarcoids you only have a 60% chance of trating that sarcoid sucessfully. Every time you treat a sarcoid & fail the % goes down by 20%. So if a horse as alot of sarcoids & the vet say treats 5 but fails to sort them then you are into the -% of sucess!
So you are best just to check with your vet first to see should you want to get rid of it the best route to go!
If you would like to know more of I can go into more depth of what Derek said in the talk but has taken me long enough to write this at the moment!
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Yes he covered all the 6 different types of sarcoids & a few other skin issues. He has a horse come to him that gets covered in hard tiny pimples (literally thousands) the lady owner got so fed up one day that she asked for him to get rid. He said leave the horse with me for a couple of days them come & pick it up.
Well when she came back her horse looked like a collinder! She was furious, he just told her to take horse away! Well a couple of weeks later she sent him a case of vintage whiskey! Though the horse has to come in every year for the same op.

He did say that they do affect performance regardless of where they are. That the horse has improved when they have been removed. Which makes sense if you think of it like cancer people can cope but they are much better when they have it removed!
 
well, first, i wouldn't panic. i had a mare with lots of sarcoids (she passed a vetting with them as a 6 yr old, my very sensible vet told me that i could only afford her because of them!) she went to Advanced eventing, i had her for over 10 years (sarcoids didn't cause her to be pts either), no other horse ever caught them, and she lived with about 5 others of mine - my vet told me that only a horse with exactly the same blood type as the carrier horse (and i think he said there are 22 types but this might be False Memory Syndrome) can catch them. i even bred from her, the foal is now 7 and still doesn't have any... even though her dam's were bad by then and bleeding a lot, all over the foal's face.
tbh with that one on your pony, while it's dormant and not growing, i would try to leave well alone. or, coat it daily with thick vaseline to starve it of oxygen. it might be the simple sort you can just pull off, but this can cause them to either die away to nothing, or go into overdrive after a few months. i had success getting rid of some by pulling them off and then spraying the wound with Aluspray, as often as possible. these were in my mare's armpit area, both sides, and healed completely, and never came back.
i would stop panicking about it tbh, they're not that bad, and it isn't in a position that makes the pony impossible to ride etc.
 
Also if you get a vet to have a look at that sarcoid they will be able to say that it has not just popped up since you bought the horse! That sarcoids has been there for a while!

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/33752.html

I agree with Kerill.
My mare also had one that didn't bother it bred of her (one in sig doing xc rails) was her lad he is 8 now I saw him the other day & not a sign of a sarcoid on him.

Though what I ment on the performance side is that your may not lose vast amounts in difference but the bodies system will be below par with them.
So you may run on 95% instead of 100%. Wish I ran at 70% most the time let alone 90%!!!
I also wouldn't be put off buying a horse with them depending on type & scale of the sarcoid/s.
 
My two have both got them: Hector just has a little one between his front legs and a tiny one (pencil lead size) on his sheath; they have never changed since I've had him (6 yrs). HumungaHorse has one in his armpit, two that are like nipples on his chest, one that used to be beer mat size on his inner thigh and is now about half a cm across, then a tiny one on his flank that has all but disappeared. I've used a supplement Sarc-Ex and also Crossgates Bioenergetics magic cream.

I have never worried about Hector's much, but did something about HH's because the one on his thigh was so unsightly. I would only worry if they change shape/size or were somewhere where they might rub when they had tack on.
 
This is a pic taken beg Nov last year by the lady I bought the pony from (funny taking a photo of it when claiming to not know it ever existed! lol) anyway do you think it has changed size/shape at all since beg Nov?

oldsarcoidpic.jpg


and here again is the new pic taken last Thurs by me...

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When comparing please note that my pic was taken closer up and at a slightly different angle
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Very interesting!

I would say it looks very much alike no real change at all though hard to be exact as from different close distances!
 
okay, if she was mine, and i wasn't likely to get kicked for my pains, i'd get a gentle hold of it and give it a medium tug while squeezing the base of it. sometimes they just pop out, no probs. i've seen vets pull out lots this way, and done lots myself. then spray hole with aluspray, or any other good spray. keep spraying daily until healed.
if it's firmly rooted, i'd coat it with vaseline daily and wait for it to suffocate. honestly!
doesn't look to me as if it's changed much between the two pics.
 
Doesnt look like it has changed much really... does she fit the bill in all other ways.....

Bit daft of the seller to say that she hasnt got one and then provide you with a picture of it..... she must have been concerned to have taken the pic in the first place!!!

Also to say that many grey horses of 15 would have some sort of melanoma present on their bodies just because they are grey!!! It may not be an active sarcoid at all........

Unless I am being very dim and sarcoids and grey mares cancer (as it was called in the dark ages) are the same thing????
 
They cant be passed between horses.

I'm not sure you really have any cmeback. Tbh if you didnt have her vetted or pick over her with a fine tooth-comb then you're stuck with it. At her age I'd leave it well alone- doubt it will cause any hassle
 
Here i go again,lol!!!!My lad had one the size of a wart on his sheath,plus others on the inside of his thighs,liverpool treatment and herbs,touchwood,gone!!
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I personally if worried would go with th liverpool treatment,depends on ya mare but he had his sheath treated 4 times and was fine!!!Good luck with whatever you chose to do,horrible situation to be in,i am pleased the liverpool worked and i would do it again!!
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It doesn't seem to have grown any from the picture's. My mare had one under her tum, by her belly button when she was five-ish. Had it treated by the vet and everything has been fine since. I personally wouldn't touch it, as you might make it worse. If you are at all worried get it looked at by your vet. It depends on how you see your horse really, if she's "one of the family", it's worth getting it sorted for peace of mind, but if she's "just a horse" to you, don't worry too much about it, like the others say, it's not in place to cause any discomfort.
 
You can try Ditton Cream from Hilton Herbs
http://www.hiltonherbs.com/equine/search.cfm?cfid=23779105&cftoken=22905974
My youngster had 1 removed by surgery and the others i treated with Ditton Cream,if you are really concerned ask your vet to contact the "Liverpool Cream" man,he will make you a cream that will treat the Sarcoid,he is not cheap but i have been told that the cream does treat Sarcoids succesfully
 
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