Sarcoid advice

SarahM

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Hi, just looking for personal experience with sarcoids please. I have a young ID that I've had for 12 months and literally put everything into. A few months ago he started to develop some scaly skin around his eye which didn't really change and looked like dry skin. Since then over the past 6 weeks he has developed a pea sized lump under his eye and several patches on his groin area, the last week another pea size lump has appeared on his ear and a couple other areas the last few days. I've been waiting for my vet to get back to me for 5 weeks, he did today with a report from professor Knottenbelt. I had sent photos etc and the report is very upsetting. Basically he recommends several types of creams and surgical removal, heavy sedation and recommends bute for certain areas and types of cream and states a few times that these are tricky looking sarcoids. My horse came to me very headshy and nervous and he has improved so much he loves a good head rub. So I'm really in two minds with what to do, money isn't an issue and he is fully insured and I would find the money for anything to make him better. My concern is the number of sarcoids he has develop very quickly, the severity of these creams and the pain that they will cause. Obviously there is no guarantee that these creams will even be successful and I hate the thought of causing my horse pain and suffering and making him headshy again. In a few weeks it will be fly season (I am plagued by them) I really don't know what to do. Looking for thoughts on the treatment, obviously this isn't a simple case of one sarcoid but rather a few v tricky ones :( thanks in advance
 

Meowy Catkin

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I have been through a lot of skin lumps and issues with my lovely grey mare. I got my Vet involved and some lumps were removed under standing sedation and other areas were treated with cream. The areas treated with cream required two lots of several applications to solve.

I did have some lumps sent to the lab and they turned out to be fungal. The areas treated with cream couldn't be tested but they were different to the lumps in appearance (looked exactly like occult sarcoids and they started off looking like dry skin).

I'll try to put some photos up.
 

Spottyappy

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I had my mare treated with Liverpool cream. It was not nice, she did not tolerate it well. I promised her I would not ever use Liverpool cream again.
it did, however remove the sarcoids.
when another came up, I had it lasered. It was much nicer all round.
I would speak to your vet about lasering, tbh.
 

Meowy Catkin

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Lump on cheek before removal, after removal and after stitching.
This was a fungal lump.
 

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SarahM

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I had my mare treated with Liverpool cream. It was not nice, she did not tolerate it well. I promised her I would not ever use Liverpool cream again.
it did, however remove the sarcoids.
when another came up, I had it lasered. It was much nicer all round.
I would speak to your vet about lasering, tbh.
This is what worries me, I hate the thought of putting him through so much pain and discomfort when it may not even clear them. I'll certainly ask about laser thank you x
 

Meowy Catkin

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Sarcoids in armpit area. These were treated with cream (she had them in both armpits) and it was definitely painful for her but she put up with it really well. She was put on painkillers and definitely needed them. I don't think I have any pics with the open wounds that the cream causes. They have healed up well though.
 

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SarahM

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Sarcoids in armpit area. These were treated with cream (she had them in both armpits) and it was definitely painful for her but she put up with it really well. She was put on painkillers and definitely needed them. I don't think I have any pics with the open wounds that the cream causes. They have healed up well though.
Thank you, glad they healed for her. Mine has really sensitive skin anways and isn't very tolerant of much which is what worries me :( x
 

ycbm

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I would always choose laser over cream if possible. From several cases I've seen it causes a lot less pain. Anything near the eye is bad news though. Has BCG vaccine been mentioned at all?

.
 

Meowy Catkin

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If anyone is interested my chestnut mare also had a lump removed and this one was also tested at the lab and was a keratoma. It looked similar to the lumps the grey had but was actually very different. The drop of blood is from the local anaesthetic. She was sedated hence the odd expression. It wasn't sewn up due to size of hole and closeness to the eye plus worries about exactly what it was. However it dried up and healed really well. She wore a fly mask 24/7 for a few days.

I would definitely have have any lumps that could be surgically removed under standing sedation treated that way again. It was not stressful for the horses especially compared to the cream.
 

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SarahM

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I would always choose laser over cream if possible. From several cases I've seen it causes a lot less pain. Anything near the eye is bad news though. Has BCG vaccine been mentioned at all?

.
:( no there was no mention of laser or BCG the report is rather depressing to be honest. I'll ask the vet tomo about those though as the cream is not sounding like something he will tolerate
 

SarahM

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If anyone is interested my chestnut mare also had a lump removed and this one was also tested at the lab and was a keratoma. It looked similar to the lumps the grey had but was actually very different. The drop of blood is from the local anaesthetic. She was sedated hence the odd expression. It wasn't sewn up due to size of hole and closeness to the eye plus worries about exactly what it was. However it dried up and healed really well. She wore a fly mask 24/7 for a few days.

I would definitely have have any lumps that could be surgically removed under standing sedation treated that way again. It was not stressful for the horses especially compared to the cream.
Really interested, such a minefield isn't it x
 

Meowy Catkin

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:( no there was no mention of laser or BCG the report is rather depressing to be honest. I'll ask the vet tomo about those though as the cream is not sounding like something he will tolerate

Yes the issue is the repeat applications onto what quickly become open wounds.

I was really amazed how well she put up with it, her heart rate went through the roof mind when the same vet came back a few months later to inoculate her. She stood perfectly though.
 

shergar

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Have a look on facebook THE SARCOID CENTER .treated with a herbal supplement and cream ,lots of before and after pictures .
 

SarahM

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Yes the issue is the repeat applications onto what quickly become open wounds.

I was really amazed how well she put up with it, her heart rate went through the roof mind when the same vet came back a few months later to inoculate her. She stood perfectly though.
He already dislikes the vet and has finally started to trust me, hate the thought of making him anxious and so sore
 

Meowy Catkin

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Really interested, such a minefield isn't it x

Yes definitely.

Prof K can be a little curt. I'm sure he has to deal with lots of difficult people though.

The grey had *another* lump and his report took ages to come back. By then the lump had fallen off. I told the vet this and there was then a ranty reply about how serious sarcoids were so the next time the vet was over I got them to look and yep... no lump. I hadn't been making it up or trying to avoid treatment... it just disappeared. If only the other lumps and bumps had done the same thing and gone away on their own instead of growing bigger.
 

SarahM

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Yes it's a big worry. Have a frank discussion about your worries with the vet. They really should take the horse's temperament into account when coming up with a treatment plan.
Thanks so much for your messages, yeah that's so true. I will have a good chat with him tomorrow, I want to do what I feel is best for my horse not be pressured into something I don't feel is right. Thanks again x
 

ycbm

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:( no there was no mention of laser or BCG the report is rather depressing to be honest. I'll ask the vet tomo about those though as the cream is not sounding like something he will tolerate

I hate to say it but I think Prof Knottenbelt may prescribe the cream when other things will do the job because he developed it and supplies it.

I know BCG is sometimes used near eyes for safety sake, and I know other vets who routinely laser rather than use cream.

.
 

SarahM

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I hate to say it but I think Prof Knottenbelt may prescribe the cream when other things will do the job because he developed it and supplies it.

I know BCG is sometimes used near eyes for safety sake, and I know other vets who routinely laser rather than use cream.

.
A very good point, I always try to be open minded so do want to look into all options. I also worry with the time of year and flies and wonder what will happen if I leave the situation until September and then reassess. Just want to do the right thing
 

ycbm

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You could ask your vet if you can trial acyclovir (Zovirax, herpes antiviral) over the summer. It sometimes works, there are research papers about it and many vets prescribe it. In my experience (unfortunately extensive!) it doesn't cause open wounds, they either shrivel and die or they don't. They can prescribe you 30g tubes.

.
 

SarahM

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You could ask your vet if you can trial acyclovir (Zovirax, herpes antiviral) over the summer. It sometimes works, there are research papers about it and many vets prescribe it. In my experience (unfortunately extensive!) it doesn't cause open wounds, they either shrivel and die or they don't. They can prescribe you 30g tubes.

.
Oh really, thanks so much for the suggestion. Definitely ask him about this :) worth a try x
 

irishdraft

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Sorry to see this op I have had exactly the same problems several years ago when my 2 young IDs started sprouting sarcoids . One of them had a sarcoid on the eye and several small ones on his sheath . I used a cream that you can apply yourself I think it was flouracil it's a human cancer cream I think . Anyhow it cleared it up with out too much stress. The others I left and they were never a problem . The other horse I still have every couple of years I band the ones on his sheath . He also had a huge one come up by the elbow but again banded it and thankfully it has never returned. Another thing you can use is bloodroot cream which is quite powerful but not to the extent of Liverpool cream . I think the difficult one could be the one on your horses ear . I was very upset and stressed over it all but am used to dealing with them now . The horse I still have is 13 so have been dealing with them for 10 years so don't lose hope . Even my vet said proff knottenbelt can be over the top when dealing with them
 

ycbm

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I would also recommend since he has suddenly got multiples, that you check his whole body every week for anything in the coat that looks like a circle and bung acyclovir on it until the coat colour goes back to normal. You can buy it on ebay in 2g tubes if your vet won't prescribe it. I've used it on a dozen occult circles and never had any reaction to it but a little hair loss and disappearance of the circle.


.
 

SarahM

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I would also recommend since he has suddenly got multiples, that you check his whole body every week for anything in the coat that looks like a circle and bung acyclovir on it until the coat colour goes back to normal. You can buy it on ebay in 2g tubes if your vet won't prescribe it. I've used it on a dozen occult circles and never had any reaction to it but a little hair loss and disappearance of the circle.


.
Thanks so much, on the case x
 

ycbm

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Fluorouracil 5 is one of the main ingredients in Liverpool cream. It will produce a wound, as will Newmarket cream. I've used both and I prefer Newmarket cream, I found the area that died with fluorouracil 5 was a lot bigger. But I had regrowth issues with both.


.
 

SarahM

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Sorry to see this op I have had exactly the same problems several years ago when my 2 young IDs started sprouting sarcoids . One of them had a sarcoid on the eye and several small ones on his sheath . I used a cream that you can apply yourself I think it was flouracil it's a human cancer cream I think . Anyhow it cleared it up with out too much stress. The others I left and they were never a problem . The other horse I still have every couple of years I band the ones on his sheath . He also had a huge one come up by the elbow but again banded it and thankfully it has never returned. Another thing you can use is bloodroot cream which is quite powerful but not to the extent of Liverpool cream . I think the difficult one could be the one on your horses ear . I was very upset and stressed over it all but am used to dealing with them now . The horse I still have is 13 so have been dealing with them for 10 years so don't lose hope . Even my vet said proff knottenbelt can be over the top when dealing with them
Thanks so much for your message, I'm hoping that his immune system may improve as he is only 6. I've looked into his feed in detail, and put him on a good mineral and vitamin supplement, hoping the vitamin E may help (maybe just wishful thinking) just worried about the one on his eye incase It gets worse. Hopefully my vet may have some other suggestions tomo if not maybe I'll try and get another opinion x
 

SarahM

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Fluorouracil 5 is one of the main ingredients in Liverpool cream. It will produce a wound, as will Newmarket cream. I've used both and I prefer Newmarket cream, I found the area that died with fluorouracil 5 was a lot bigger. But I had regrowth issues with both.


.
 

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