Sarcoids help

Billabongchick

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I was wondering if anyone can give some advice please. A friend of mine rides a horse for the owner which has always been susceptible to sarcoids. In previous years they have been more wart like and flat/crusty with the odd pronounced one and apparently the horse had a couple removed from the chest area. Since then it has been fed (on occasions until the tub runs out and they don't bother replacing) a feed supplement but they had a big gap where it wasn't on it and the sarcoids have gone crazy. The owner is the sort that will only get the vet out as a last resort and will never pay for treatment as they don't take much interest in the horse.

I was shocked to see how aggressively these have grown in the past weeks; the horse now has several large tumours under it's back legs which are causing discomfort when ridden. My friend wants to help and has offered to pay for vet but the owner declined. Is there anything that my friend can do to help the horse in terms of topical treatment, medication or anything else? The two largest ones look candidates for surgical removal by ligature or cutting and the others are flatter and liberally scattered all over her underside. Any advice welcome. In my position I would get the vet out no hesitation but that is not an option as owner unwilling. Thanks in advance.
 

JanetGeorge

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There's nothing you CAN do if the owner is brain-dead. The sarcoids will get worse - and spread. And when they're bad enough, the horse may well become dangerous. Short of reporting them to the RSPCA .....
 

maggiehorse

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not a lot you can do its not a welfare issue as many vets still advocate leaving well alone as treatment can be very expensive and are not always effective(that said i,m currently having my gelding treated with liverpool cream and it seems to be working so far ). as for supplements
sarc x has been reported to help and may be worth a try
 

Billabongchick

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Thanks; I think Sarc X is what they are using already. Is the Liverpool cream prescription only? Not sure what you mean by horse becoming dangerous Janet? I thought the condition was confined to skin? They have had vet out in past but for whatever reason they seem disinterested in doing so this time. Shame; older horse who is very quiet with plenty of mileage left other than this issue... Never experienced it myself so was wondering if there were any other options to minimise growth that could be tried without surgery.
 

JanetGeorge

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Sarc-x is - in my experience - a waste of time. Liverpool Cream will only be supplied to a vet - and has to he administered by a vet which means 3-4 visits in a week.

Sarcoids can become very irritating and painful with time - and that can make horses very bad tempered! And if they're on the belly and you're trying to apply topical treatment, watch out for kicks - or worse!

This horse has a history of sarcoids so none of the easy/backyard treatments are going to work. If you can get a prescription, you COULD try Aciclovir on the smaller ones. But it's unlikely to work on the bigger ones which would need either Liverpool Cream - or to be rubber-ringed and treated with cryosurgery.

If you can persuade the owners to spend money, the best bet might be Jeremy Kemp-Symonds - who is a specialist at treating sarcoids with laser. Costs £450 - plus a modest 1-way mileage charge - to have him out to treat them all!

Unfortunately, without treatment - the horse WILL get worse - and worse. Maybe the owners will develop a brain before it's too late!
 

Kick On

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harsh, some people shouldn't owner horses (or any other animals!!)

Sarcoids are skin cancer, and unless treated they will not disappear, sounds harsh but your friend need to either take to vet to be sorted or as not their horse walk away - which is unfair on horse but if owner is so thick and stupid there is not a lot more you can do. I feel so sorry for your friend
 

Billabongchick

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It is a difficult situation as there are other people involved at the same yard (they have several horses they loan out) as well as my friend and I don't wish to rock the boat in terms of friendships although would happily voice my concerns next time I see the owner (who is rarely there). I know several of my friends there have mentioned to the owner that they think the vet should revisit but I know for a fact that the owner will not contemplate spending out hundreds for treatment for an aged horse. My friend who shares her does not wish to stop being involved with the horse as otherwise it would get very little one to one attention and she feels sorry for it. It sounds like unfortunately they have let it manifest to a stage that nothing will help now other than surgery. Thanks for the advice at least if I catch the owner to discuss I am a little more clued up.
 

lannerch

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They think Sarcoids can be spread from one affected horse to an unaffected horse in the summer by biting flies, so if left untreated there is a potential risk to every other horse in the yard that grazes near this horse. This is why the common areas for sarcoids are fly biting areas eg between the legs, the sheath area etc.
Food for thought!
 

JoClark

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Oh dear some comments, really some people need to look at Professor Knottenbelts view on the liverpool university website. "The disease should probably be viewed as a form of skin cancer. Although there may be some pathological reasons why the name skin cancer does not necessarily fit the equine sarcoid".
Flies may cause the sarcoids to spread to different places on the same horse but it is highly unlikely that others will get it too so do not panic. I was at a yard where mine had some sarcoids and another had them worse however they were close and it did not make mine worse.
My boy has 1 left now that is just pushing out so fingers crossed after that, no more. I had the liverpool cream treatment and it did not get rid of many which was unusual, I was going to re do the cream in winter again but in the mean time out him on global herbs restore (liquid) which is a liver tonic and after a 1ltr bottle I noticed a change in the sarcoids so got another bottle and by the end of that I only had a couple left :) I was not expecting that reaction and am very happy. The liver destroys toxins in the body so it makes sense that ensuring the liver is working correctly that the sarcoids changed. Its a cheap option if you want to try.

My vet also mentioned newmarket cream which you can put on your self, thuja works for some, bloodroot cream.

http://www.liv.ac.uk/sarcoids/

Good luck x
 

unicorndreams

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Although my mare only has one nodular sarcoid so not as severe as your friend's loan horse, I have been treating using essential oils. They are usually applied in a clay base but Mel's is rit between her back legs and no way will she let me apply anything directly so we have mixed the oils in a spray bottle and I can spray it on quickly. In just a few weeks it has shrunk at the root significantly. Not expensive either.
 

JillA

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There have been reports of sarcoids responding well to supplementing with turmeric and pepper - check out the Turmeric Users Group on Facebook. Some "sarcoids" though are viral warts, and as with any virus, the body's immune system will eventually deal with them. I think you need an experienced eye to tell the difference, so if they spread from one host to another, or disappear apparently spontaneously I would guess that's what they are.
Some people report good results with toothpaste, but are those cancerous or warts I wonder?
 

Billabongchick

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Thanks all; I did have a good look through Liverpool vets page before posting here as that would always be my first point of reference but there wasn't much info that wasn't vet related in terms of ideas that we could try ourselves. Somebody on here has sent me a useful PM re turmeric/pepper so I think that looks a good option to try; I can't see why the owner would object if my friend buys it and also the toothpaste option might be worth a go. The majority of them look 'warty' rather than tumour-like.

Unicorndreams can I ask what essential oils you have used for this please? Sounds like another possible option to try.
 

ester

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TBF if they are that widespread treatment options may be limited and treatment with liverpool cream can be quite painful, laser not viable if over larger areas etc etc. It is possible that the owner has already previously had a discussion with the vet about the longer term management of them as with a particularly older a horse (how old?) I might not be quite so keen to jump in to try and treat them all (whereas I am quite a keen advocate of people getting advice from liverpool and treating asap- I do not believe any 'home cures' will help and would not be taking it upon myself to try self-treating someone else's horse).
 

Billabongchick

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No we wouldn't do anything without the owners permission obviously. Yes it is probably something that owner has discussed with vet in the past when horse was younger but if I am brutally honest I think owner simply doesn't have time, money or inclination to do anything about it. Think horse is 16 or so. As said before the owner will not be interested in paying for expensive treatment. The two larger ones are what really bother me and obviously beginning to really irritate the horse; the flatter wart ones might be helped by feed supplement but the dangling tumour type ones are either going to drop off or need removal. The way I see it is that owner is going to do FA about it for reasons of disinterest or money so any help we can offer 'might' make the horse more comfortable. As I said in a post above my friend offered to pay for vet but this was declined in an 'oh it isn't too bad, leave it' type way. Sadly I think if it became chronic they would PTS before forking out as no interest in horse any more. And personally that would sadden me as the horse deserves more than that so I'd like to offer help if it is likely to be accepted. Owner is not nasty and will be open to ideas but just has little interest these days and reading between the lines is in financial difficulty.
 
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