Sarcoids... please read.

[kim1978]

I wondered if there were any people on here, whom had had much to do with Sarcoids... I am helping a lady out with her horses and earlier in the year she found a small lump on her ID x TB 3yr old filly in the elbow area on her front leg. The vet came to see it and thought it was likely to be a sarcoid/cancer and it would cost a huge amount of money to remove it so best just to leave it alone and see what happened. Unfortunatley last friday while the owner was away the lump broke through the skin, so i called the vet and he said there only really was only one option and that was to pts, but he would speak to her owner on her return from holiday as the cost to remove would be huge and he was positive it would come back. Since then the whole lump has exploded out of the skin, it is weeping,occassionally bleeding and looks angry. The lump is about the size of a tennis ball and very unsightly, it has grown really quickly. I really feel for her owner as she adores the horse and bred her herself... She is now back from holiday and has had to face this... she is waiting to hear from the vet, having phoned him herself. Toyah is happy in herself and looks so well , apart from the flies aggrevating the lump , she is her normal lovely self. What i really wanted to know was has anyone else on here had to deal with sarcoids/cancer and have you had them removed or left them alone and what has been the outcome... Googling info up on them the prognosis doesnt look good and it seems she has the most aggressive type of them. It seems such a waste of a young life... Be good to hear your stories.

 

[oscarwild]

Hi, Not sure if you have read this information about sarcoids from liverpool university http://www.liv.ac.uk/sarcoids/

That the site my vet adviced me to look at regarding my horses sarcoid. Not really much help as my horse has a small one, but in winter we are getting it removed.

Would it be worth speaking to Derek Knottenbelt at liverpool to see what he says. Sorry I cant be any help to you.

Sorry to hear of your issues with sarcoids. Let us know what happens.

 

[leflynn]

Use the link above and get a referral, there are many other options that may be suitable other than PTS, they might be expensive but it is better than having an otherwise healthy horse PTS. The younger they are the better the respond and recover from treatment (apparently)

 

[kerilli]

PTS? you are JOKING, what vet was this? seriously?
i bought a mare with sarcoids (the one in my siggy pic) many years ago, and treated them throughout her life, and in fact they had nothing to do with her eventually being pts either. they are treatable, as long as vets are sensible about them and don't panic.
imho the best vet in the country for them is Alan Walker (down near Chipping Norton iirc, but he travels), he treated my girl a few times (they did keep growing back, some were very aggressive and i used all sorts of things on them, and got rid of some, incl huge patches of verrucose ones under her armpits, they cleared up completely). He is very sensible, both about sarcoids, treatment, and prices... not a £100s of pounds for 1 treatment kind of vet at all, quite the reverse. Amazing man.
years later another horse had a few small ones and i used Newmarket Bloodroot Ointment on them and they went, permanently. wish i'd known about it to try on my grey.
or, of course Professor Knottenbelt is the renowned expert on them, and has his own treatment for them.
i personally would walk away from the vet who said PTS though, jeez.

 

[BigRed]

I am sorry that you have had to deal with this horrible problem, whether the owner decides to have this young horse pts if obviously down to her. As none of us here, have actually seen this particular horse's sarcoid, we are not really fit to comment on whether it is so bad, that the horse needs to be pts. If it has grown to the size of a tennis ball in days, it does sound like it is a serious problem. I wish you and the owner all the best in making the right decision.

I have had my new horse 2 months, and a small sarcoid has suddenly appeared near her udders, so I am watching it with a morbid interest.

 

[Tammytoo]

Could you suggest that she get a second opinion from a specialist vet? Being PTS seems a bit extreme. I have had sarcoids removed (took 3 goes, but the insurance company covered the treatment). The travelling vet suggested above would be worth considering.

What a horrible thing to happen to your friend.

 

[smiffyimp]

PTS? you are JOKING, what vet was this? seriously?
i bought a mare with sarcoids (the one in my siggy pic) many years ago, and treated them throughout her life, and in fact they had nothing to do with her eventually being pts either. they are treatable, as long as vets are sensible about them and don't panic.
imho the best vet in the country for them is Alan Walker (down near Chipping Norton iirc, but he travels), he treated my girl a few times (they did keep growing back, some were very aggressive and i used all sorts of things on them, and got rid of some, incl huge patches of verrucose ones under her armpits, they cleared up completely). He is very sensible, both about sarcoids, treatment, and prices... not a £100s of pounds for 1 treatment kind of vet at all, quite the reverse. Amazing man.
years later another horse had a few small ones and i used Newmarket Bloodroot Ointment on them and they went, permanently. wish i'd known about it to try on my grey.
or, of course Professor Knottenbelt is the renowned expert on them, and has his own treatment for them.
i personally would walk away from the vet who said PTS though, jeez.

i kind of agree with this, my boy has 2 lots treated, not the size of this but still. PTS seems very drastic and id def get another vet in.

 

[Snoozinsusan]

I thought sarcoids were just those annoying little wart things but I'll show you pictures of Toyah's!

Not easy to look at, are they?

Unfurtunately the whole structure goes through her muscle so any operation would be very invasive and with a poor prognosis anyway.

If she had an op there is probably not enough skin to cover the wound and she would therefore be at risk of further serious infection. The area would be severly weakened and should she be bred from if she is susceptible to sarcoids?

I love Toyah but what else can be done apart from pts, which is my vet's recommendation but it is ultimately my choice.

If anyone has had a horse with such a sarcoid I would love to hear the outcome.

Please be kind as I am in a very fragile state! I have already lost a young labrador and a welshie mare this year.

 

[brighteyes]

I have nothing but my genuine sympathy to offer. I hate sarcoids with a passion and this is exactly why.

 

[Waterborn]

Ditto Brighteyes, genuine sympathy & hate sarcoids!

 

[jenwren1]

Hi, I am not one for posting on forums, but having just seen your post I felt I had to. I have seen many sarcoids over the years and have seen them treated sucessfully. My vet is fantastic and very kind and sympathetic. I think putting your horse down without giving her a fighting chance is rather hasty, although I don't think I would breed from her. If you would like details of my vet you are welcome to pm me. A second opinion can not hurt.
In the mean time I would try and keep her out of the flies if at all possible. And don't give up hope just yet.

 

[Orangehorse]

I have grey pony with a large growth on his head and smaller ones between his front legs
(not sure what the technical name is).

When he has his jabs the vet looks at him as well. When he came the growth on his head was small, but over the past 6 years it has grown past the size of a tennis ball and is growing larger all the time, but it is not crazy growth.

From the time that it bacame obvious the vet said that there is little to be done and it is best left alone. Last summer my vet said that it would eventually outgrow the blood supply and ulcerate and that would be the time to PTS as there would then be no cure, and the last three horses she had PTS was for that condition. These vets have a specialised horse section, with connections with local equine hospitals and referrals, so I think there advice is pretty good.

Every case is different and you can only treat an animal as an individual. It is a great shame when this happens, but all you can do is take the vets advice, and maybe ask for a referral but there are somethings that cannot be made better.

 

[Snoozinsusan]

Thank you BrightEyes and Waterborn for your sympathy at this time. I will never consider a small lump as trivial ever again!

Orangehorse - Your horses's lump sounds similar but slower growing. My vet said the same as yours but he did not expect it to grow so quickly.

I trust this vet, have used this practise for years for their equine section as well as pets. Several years ago one of their vets was treating my highland mare with liver problems for a couple of months and although I asked for a prognosis several times he would say to leave decisions til later. She died in her stable when no-one was around and I regret that! I now say 'better a month too early than a day too late!

Thank you jenwren1 for posting. Unfortunately I do not have facilities to keep Toyah stabled and she has been kept out 24/7 since birth, as all of mine are. She does use the field shelters and we've been using fly sprays but there are persistent little bugs! Imagine if a fly laid eggs in the wound and they turned to maggots, etc!

Toyah is being pts this afternoon as my vet and I think that is the best route. I am heartbroken but know in my heart that it is right.

I am also thanking kim for posting this thread and looking after Toyah and the others so well while I was sunning myself in Turkey. Only met her a few months ago when she posted on this site looking for a horse to share/ care for. I think she got more than she bargained for! Thanks Kim.

RIP Toyah, forever in my heart.

 

[pedilia]

So sorry Snoozin, they are one of the worst sarcoids I have ever seen. RIP Toyah.

Two of my horses have sarcoids, they are small and around the sheath/teat areas, my vet has advised to leave alone and keep an eye, if and when we need to treat it will be with the Liverpool cream.
Just a word of caution, be very careful when using any other treatments, there are 6 different types of sarcoid and interfering without knowing which type they are can result in them becoming more agressive and increasing in number.

 

[Tammytoo]

What an awful decision to have to make - my heart goes out to you.

 

[Ruth_Cymru]

I am so sorry you had to make that decision, but I think you made the right decision. I've had to deal with sarcoids in the past, and they are so tricky and unpredictable. I think she would have had to endure a lot of discomfort over a long period of time had you decided to operate/treat, without a secure outcome.

RIP Toyah x x

 

[cptrayes]

I thought sarcoids were just those annoying little wart things but I'll show you pictures of Toyah's!

Please be kind as I am in a very fragile state! I have already lost a young labrador and a welshie mare this year.

So sorry, what a mess Thanks for posting the pictures though. I am currently persuading a friend not to buy a horse who has ten or more sarcoids, with one on his ear. I will show her your pictures and I'm sure that after that there will be no purchase and you will have saved her from a potential second heartbreak as the horse is to replace another write-off.

 

[jenwren1]

I am so sorry, having lost a horse 4 years ago I can promise you in time the pain does lessen, and you start to remember the happier times and whilst you never forget the pain and the day it all happens, you can look back with clarity at the joy the mare gave in her short time with you. My thoughts are with you tonght x

 

[kim1978]

Susan i am so pleased that you posted the pics of Toyah's sarcoid, it really was horrific and not the small little wart like things that people so often assume that's all sarcoids are. I think some people are to quick to judge on her being PTS, but ultimatley it was the right decision and i agree with your and the vets decision. Not every owner can afford treatment and not every sarcoid is minor or treatable and seeing as Toyah had the most aggressive type, it was best left alone. I wish everyone luck who has posted on this thread and their horse has some form of sarcoid, i just hope you dont have to go through what Susan has been through. Toyah's sarcoid started as a small lump under the skin, but quickly progressed to the pictures within a matter of months...It was never expected that it would advance so quickly. It is such a pity as she was a beautiful horse. RIP Toyah, you willbe sadly missed. x

 

[Zuzan]

my deepest sympathies.. heartbreaking.. there are sarcoids and there are SARCOIDS.. there are different types with different prognosises (prognosi ? ) have seen sarcoids that LOOKED as bad as that but werent .. not involved with muscles .. and were basically agravated by incorrect treatment with camrosa.. they cleared up completly on correct treatment.

 

[skydancer]

I wondered if there were any people on here, whom had had much to do with Sarcoids... I am helping a lady out with her horses and earlier in the year she found a small lump on her ID x TB 3yr old filly in the elbow area on her front leg. The vet came to see it and thought it was likely to be a sarcoid/cancer and it would cost a huge amount of money to remove it so best just to leave it alone and see what happened. Unfortunatley last friday while the owner was away the lump broke through the skin, so i called the vet and he said there only really was only one option and that was to pts, but he would speak to her owner on her return from holiday as the cost to remove would be huge and he was positive it would come back. Since then the whole lump has exploded out of the skin, it is weeping,occassionally bleeding and looks angry. The lump is about the size of a tennis ball and very unsightly, it has grown really quickly. I really feel for her owner as she adores the horse and bred her herself... She is now back from holiday and has had to face this... she is waiting to hear from the vet, having phoned him herself. Toyah is happy in herself and looks so well , apart from the flies aggrevating the lump , she is her normal lovely self. What i really wanted to know was has anyone else on here had to deal with sarcoids/cancer and have you had them removed or left them alone and what has been the outcome... Googling info up on them the prognosis doesnt look good and it seems she has the most aggressive type of them. It seems such a waste of a young life... Be good to hear your stories.

poor poor horse! How long has has the horse had the sarcoid before it has got to this extreme?I dont mean to sound rude but was just wondering why the owner did not do something about it before it got to this state? Please believe me i am not being mean or nasty but my horse has one removed from her hind leg last year with liverool cream and it was a fibroplastic(sp?) which this looks to be and now it has completely gone - thoughts are with you all - especially the poor horse

 

[horsesense]

Two years ago my horse had a sarcoid close to his elbow which was treated with flourouracil cream (which I believe is less concentrated than the "Liverpool" cream) when the sarcoid was about the size of a large pea. It disappeared completely and there has been no further problem.

 

[Snoozinsusan]

I first noticed the lump in the spring of this year and the vet visited within a week and his recommendation was that interfering with it would make it worse. He did not expect it to grow so quickly and was surprised when he saw it last week!

If Toyah had been a successful competition horse he said he might have gone down the treatment route but it would have been very expensive and she would have had a long recovery period without a guaranteed outcome. I did not want to go down this route. She lived out 24/7 so there would be a high risk of infection. There would not have been enough healthy skin to cover the wound and it was in such a position that any movement would pull stitches, etc. It was in the armpit of her near fore and went through the muscle.

The vet was very honest from the outset and Toyah's quality of life was the priority at all times.

I miss her now but also feel an element of relief that she will not suffer and I do not have to worry about her future.

RIP Toyah.

 

[Nagling]

How horrible for you to have had your youngster put to sleep. I've had two horses with sarcoids that I've had success with but they were nothing compared to your poor girls. Well done for being able to make the decision I really sympathise with you

 

[Foxhunter49]

That is a mess!

I have not seen anything like that in a number of years.

With smaller sarcoids I have had a great deal of success with NAF D-tox which will boost their immune system.
A young horse that was home bred, had one start on his sheath which was golf ball size within a week or so. He had another growing rapidly on the inside of his lower lip.
I tries varios creams to no avail and then put him on high doses of D-tox and they both went within a couple of months.
I cannot recommend D-tox highly enough. I am nothing to do with NAF but I use it for anything and everything and with the sarcoids I gave the horse higher doses. (Treble the normal dose x 2 a day) You cannot overdose with it as what is not utilised is passed through and playing around with it have found with some things more is better.

 

[hairycob]

I thought my mare had bad sarcoids but those are really horrific. Prof K always says the only predictable thing thing about sarcoids is that they unpredictable & your poor mare proves that. I feel so sorry for you, but having seen the pictures & given how quickly it grew I'm sure you are making the right decision for your horses welfare.

 

[Snoozinsusan]

Thanks everyone.

Foxhunter - If any of my animals ever have a tiny lump I will take your advice and use the NAF- sounds like a miracle to me! Too late for Toyah unfortunately.

At the beginning of July the lump was just that, a lump contained within her skin but 2 days after going on holiday it burst and Kim immediately phoned the vet. Only a small part was protruding at that time but, as the vet described it, it turned inside out within a few days. I was told about it a couple of days before returning from my weeks holiday and all I could do at that stage was worry! Discussed it with vet as soon as I returned and arranged for her to be pts last Friday, just a week after it burst. Vet hadn't seen such a bad one. I didn't delay treatment, just went with vet's recommendations.

 

[smellsofhorse]

Pts?
What a terrible vet.
There are loads that can be done lots with great success.
If the horse was insured then you would be fine but obviously this mare isn't.
Finding the money is the big problem here but this horse definitely has a future.

 

[smellsofhorse]

Just realised the has been pts.
How sad.
I'm sure something could have been sooner before it got so bad.
But too late for odd and buts.

 

[Snoozinsusan]

Blucanoo - if you can't say something nice, sometimes it's better to say nothing at all!

It's also a good idea to read the thread and know some of the facts before spouting off!

I just knew someone like you would reply, I have dreaded opening sometimes expecting this!

Do you not think I feel bad enough as it is without such comments?