sarcoids - Re-appearing?

K

Kraft

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 October 2007
Messages
170
Visit site
My horse had a sarcoid under his stomach (on the left hand side, about 20 cm back from where the girth goes). It was about the size of a 50 pence peice and about 1 cm deep. My vet put a band around it about 18 months ago (during the winter, to stop flys), It feel off, the hair never grew back on it but it cleared up ok just leaving a scar.

During the last month the skin on the scar has started to go flakey and the skin breaks open, leaving it looking quite red (does not seem to irritate or hurt my horse).

He has only ever had the one sarcoid and non any where else.

Just worried it could be growing back, anyone have any thoughts - i really dont know much about them?
confused.gif
 
Sarcoids can (and often do) grow back.

It sucks, and means money being spent, but unless they are in an awkward place or multiply, they rarely cause huge problems
 
yes, it definitely could be. i would smother it in vaseline as often as you can until you can get your vet to look at it again. this will do no harm and might well do a lot of good... i've heard a few people say they got rid of them by 'smothering' them with vaseline, camrosa, axle grease (!) etc.
 
Sarcoids of tumours.. therefore, as a rule do generally reappear which is very anoying.

My advise is..t hat dont use the Liverpool cream other than as a last resort.

Loux
 
I would put kerosine around it to keep the flies off it, and get the vet to have a look. I went to a lecture a while ago with Prof Knottenbelt, and the most important message was that each time you mess with a sarcoid, and you fail, the more you damage your chances for the future.

Even if you and the vet decide to do nothing for now, if you keep the flies off it then you may reduce any spreading.
 
I had one gelding with a small plague sarcoid on his neck. It was treated with liverpool cream and came off. Never reappeared, was totally gone and hair grew back. He had no signs of any others anywhere in the time I had him. He was a bit run down when I got him so this could tie in with the school of thought that if they have low immunity they are more prone to them?

I found 2 on my mare just behind where the girth sits. They were the size of squashed jelly tots (to be scientific!). I had my then practice treat them with Liverpool cream after photographing them and sending the pics to Prof Knottenbelt. They came off but then grew back. She most definitely wasn't run down but had been through "sttess" with lameness/box rest and finally an operation.

Not only did the 2 (now bigger) ones come back on her girth, but a smaller one in her offside elbow, a big one on the inside of her offhind and one med/ 2 small ones on inside of nearhind. GAH!

With hindsight and experience I now know that the original vet practice and vets did not treat them properly.

I'd changed vet practices by this time and the new vet started treatment with Liverpool cream immediately. The reasoning being to avoid "fly season", if he didn't catch them then it would mean waiting until September. According to my new vet there is now new evidence to confirm that flies can/do transmit the virus that can be/is the cause of sarcoids.

This time it took 3 rounds of treatment for them all to successfully come off. All but the big one on her offhind and one on her girth was off before the onslaught of "fly season" and are both off now. Hopefully for good <touch wood>

I'm "the paranoid owner" and done my new vet's head in asking about sarcoids. I'm a marketing man's wet dream; you say I NEED to feed this supp to stop sarcoids and I'm on it! Vet "pooh-poohed" all treatments apart from Liverpool Cream so that's what I went with.

In my vets opinion the feed supplements/nutri aids do nothing and there is no proof that they in anyway affect existing sarcoids or stop new ones from growing. Right enough I've not seen any proof while googling?

I asked about blood root cream, thuja tablets/cream, camarosa etc and he said that as Liverpool cream is the only treatment with scientific evidence to prove that it works then that is the only thing he'd use or recommend.

Apparently camarosa (sp) is one of Prof K's pet hates as it can actually make sarcoids worse as it can promote/increase growth.

I tried Thuja cream when I first found the jelly tots and it had absolutely no affect at all. I know someone that fed his horses thuja tablets and "even though it might have taken 3yrs" they worked and the sarcoids came off...

Which leads me to my other point that the only thing predicatable about sarcoids is that they are unpredicatable (think that's the tag line on Prof K's website!). They might have come off regardless of the thuja. Both vets at my practice have told stories where they've turned up to treat sarcoids of various sizes and in different places (having previously examined them) and they've come off in their hand just before applying the cream. Unforunately my mare's were frightened off in quite the same way!

It's not cheap but if you're insured and they weren't pre-existing then they will be covered. My mare was but is now excluded and my gelding wasn't so it wasn't the cheapest of experiences. The gelding's didn't affect him where it was (high up on his neck) but at the end of the day it's a cancer and you're much better without it than with it! This is a view point shared by my vet and according to him the new school of thought nowadays is to treat them as soon as they are found whereas before it was a case of if they aren't in an awkward place or changing shape/weeping etc then just leave them.

The school of thought that sarcoids can be "smoothered" is apparently a myth too. They are not independent "breathing" things, they are a bunch of cancerous cells. I work for an oncology company and my MD is a cancer expert and I wouldn't imagine sarcoids on humans differ that much. Infact just asked one of my managers about it and that's true, a malignant tumour needs it's own blood supply and they will get that internally, "smoothering" wouldn't have any effect. It's a bit like a melanoma on us, it might just look like a mole but it's underneath that you really see the change. I know when my gelding's sarcoid came off there was a whole lot going on underneath and ditto some of my mare's sarcoids.

Sorry this was meant to be QR and I've gone on and on... My point is I would speak to your vet asap and pursue the Liverpool Cream. If your vet shares the theory on flies transmitting the virus then it might be September (or when flies die down) before she/he starts.

In a rush to type without being noticed so apologies for spelling/grammer and my very scientific explanations...
 
I am a Liverpool cream fan as it got rid of Rafi's but he had to have a retreatment . Check if any other horses locally have them as your horse could get reinfected by flies.
 
My 1st mare had one on her girth and I had it treated with the liverpool cream and it went away never to return. The site remained grey and scaley with no hair growth but was completely flat and caused no problems.

She also had a large one by her eye that I didn't have treated because of the risk to her sight if any of the cream got in her eye, but this one upped and left of it's own accord. It gradually shrank and eventually vanished completely, despite starting as a circle of around 1.5" diameter. I fed Hilton Herbs equiimmune and whether this had any effect or not I don't know, but I kept her on them just in case they were influential and she never developed any more sarcoids.

My vets said that the rubber band treatment often resulted in the sarcoid regrowing which is why they recommended the liverpool cream.
 
Not as much of an expert on this as TPO (thankfully, by the sounds of it!) but I disagree re: Camrosa. I have heard people say on some horses its made them worse but I've used it on four horses, each with sarcoids of varying size and aggression, as recommended by my vet, and it has always worked and they've never recurred (with one as much as 10 years on!)
Not really a recommendation to def use it - just don't write it off...
 
Soap had a large sarcoid by his sheath about the size of an egg. I banded it and applied Camrosa at first but it just became a horrid bloody mess fell off and grew again so I had the vet surgically remove it. Soap then burst his stitches and I came up the yard the next morning to this blood bath!
blood.jpg

Cue emergency call out to re-atatch stiches and once they had healed Liverpool cream was applied to belt and braces make sure it was dead and gone, that was 3 years ago and he just has a flat hairless patch there now, but I keep him in out of the flies in the summer just incase they aggrivate it as I believ it is a similar condition to dangle berries as see in cows.
If you get the chance ask him to disect it when he chops it off and look at the inside it's fascinating it's like a sort of irregular onion. This is Soap's one cut in half it's gross, but I am quite interested in veterinary medicine and am not shocked by the gore!!! apologies if it makes you queesey
sarcoid.jpg
 
Thanks guys for all your help, Got the vet coming out at 11.00 today she said she will have a look but feels instead of using Liverpool Cream maybe use "Blood Root", never heard of it. But finger crossed. x
frown.gif
 
Never heard of blood root?!!

Maybe ask about it! (then inform me please!
grin.gif
)

Chloe, ye they are really weird inside arent they and btw that is one BIG sarcoid!
 
How did you get on today?

Re Camarosa (sp) no experience of it at all, vet had attended Prof K lecture and he had spoken about it as being his "pet hate" in treatment of sarcoids as it encourages cell growth (don't quote me on that part).

Chloe_GHE that is some picture!! Thankfully my mob's lot were a lot smaller! After my gelding's scab came off it was like a white smartie sized thing that I found lying on the floor. It's just looked like scabs that's come off my mare. Still waiting on mare to totally heal up, scabs off but still a bit swollen. The joys!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top