Sarcoids what can I do?

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horsegirl

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About 2 years ago my horse developed 3 sarcoids 2 on his sheath and one between his hind legs. The vet trated them with cream and the 2 on the sheath died and fell off. The one between his legs was in a place that meant the cream was rubbed all over both legs every time he moved and the whole area became raw and inflamed. He was very sore and was on bute. It wasn't possible to keep the cream on long enough to kill the sarcoid but eventually it did fall off. However the next year dozens more sarcoids appeared all over the insides of his back legs where the raw are was mainly although they are now on his front leg and on his chest too. So far they do not appear to cause any problems and none are in the saddle or bridle area but of course once the 12 months was up they treatment is no longer covered by insurance. I don't believe they would have spread so much had he not had the treatment but what can i do?
 
horsegirl said:
So far they do not appear to cause any problems and none are in the saddle or bridle area but of course once the 12 months was up they treatment is no longer covered by insurance. I don't believe they would have spread so much had he not had the treatment but what can i do?
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First, it is highly UNLIKELY that treating sarcoids properly will cause them to spread! The fact is that sarcoids DO spread - almost certainly as a result of flies biting the sarcoid - and then biting another part of the horse.

As to what you can do, I'm afraid you only have two choices. One is to ignore them and hope to hell they don't spread further! The chances of that are VERY slim indeed! The other is to get your vet to send pictures of the sarcoids to Prof. Knottenbolt at Liverpool University and seek his advice onthe best way of proceeding with treatment. It won't be cheap -but neither is a new horse. What you should NOTdo is to muck about with 'home' remedies - they WILL make the situation worse!
 
Echo JG. It is recognised that surgical intervention with a sarcoid, eg taking a biopsy or attempts to excise it, are likely to cause a true sarcoid to grow more aggressively. It is possible that this happened with the failed attempt to destroy all 3 sarcoids with Liverpool Cream (I expect that's what the cream was). As JG says, don't attempt any home remedies or apply any product that says things like "encourages the growth of new skin". The last thing you want to apply to a skin cancer is something that could make it grow faster. All you can do is monitor the growth of these new sarcoids and hope they stop growing. Many sarcoids remain small and insignificant for the whole of a horse's life. If they do start growing again, you may need to consider eg cryosurgery (freezing) since the site is in a position where Liverpool cream can't be successfully applied. There are other options as well - injection of the BCG vaccine is one - your vets are the best ones to advise but I wouldn't panic yet. Are your vets certain that they are sarcoids and not warts? How old is your horse?
 
Sorry to invade but BOF could you explain the BCG vacine a bit more. What it does and how effective it is and cost although if it prevents further sarcoids then cost isnt a huge issue. Also Ive heard people talk about Sac X and other herbal powders that you can add to feeds that help. Are they just clever marketing or is there something in it. Im have very little expericence with sarcoids as horses that weve had in the past with them weve just left or banded if they were particular big and going to become a problem.
 
Be aware that if you want the liverpool cream then there is quite a wait, as they have to view the photos and approve before they send it to you. I have been waiting the best part of two months now, and am somewhat frustrated that the sarcoid has grown in this time, but I am still waiting to commence treatment :(
 
puppy get your vet to chase it!

My mare was treated beginning of February. Vet emailed photos off and we had the cream within 10 days I think... Certainly wasn't longer than 2 weeks.
 
My experiences of a similar situation and not in any way advice!!

My Horse had 2 treated with liverpool cream before I bought him. One left a small patch of raw skin, the other came back. Interestingly, they were on the inner hind leg near the top where the skin is exposed and I heard keeping the cream on was near impossible.

They were treated about 4 years ago. I waited about a year and neither changed at all. I decided to go down a different route and changed his diet aiming at improving skin condition and immune system in general. I basically put him on a feed balancer and a high oil supplement. I also contacted a fully qualified herbalist who I'd heard about. Now I do believe that some natural remedies could easily make matters worse as they stimulate cell growth and of course you don't want to do that. I also know many will shoot me down in flames for trying something that's not Liverpool cream. However, clearly it didn't work on my Horse and I think in that area it's maybe not the best thing as it's very hard to keep it on. I wouldn't hesitate to get it for a different part of the body that's easier to keep it on.

The treatment I got is a salve (herbal and homeopathic) and a homepoathic tablet. Since starting it (I admit it was a few months ago) the small one has gone totally and the fine hair has re-grown. The other bigger one is very slowly, but very surely decreasing in size. It's not big anyway but small and flat. I don't know what's in the salve but I know many people have had success with it. I apply it with bare hands so it causes no pain - it stinks though!!

Many people totally dismiss natural remedies and that's absolutely fine. However, saying they are totally ineffective is utter nonsense. You only have to read up on studies of animals self medicating from plants to understand that and that includes for serious conditions. Animals have been eating herbs etc to heal various ailments a lot longer than vet hospitals have been around. If you think consuming certain plants can kill you it proves they are powerful things. I do however think with sarcoids you have to be VERY careful and only use someone properly qualified who knows what you can and can't safely use. One of the vets (a 'normal' vet) I use refers people on to a herbalist if appropriate and he also prescribes homeopathic remedies when appropriate. This approach I like as it acknowledges all options. Many vets totally dismiss other approaches which is a real shame.
 
Ditto galaxy...

My mare is due to be bred and had a few tiny sarcoids that needed liverpool cream and this had to be done before she was covered. My vet spoke to prof K on the friday and had the cream monday morning! Ok, this was an exceptional case as we were very short on time, to treat and then wait the amount of time needed before covering. Also my vet knows prof K, not sure if that helped, but you should definately not still be waiting after 2 months!
 
My horse developed what could have been a sarcoid on his face. My vets said that the current thinking is "if it looks like a sarcoid, treat it as if it is". I know there are other vets who would say the opposite. It was successfully treated with Liverpool cream without a single photo being taken and sent off. I think the photo is to help with diagnosis but if the vet knows what they're doing, you don't need a photo. The huge problem with sarcoids is that many warts, angleberries, lumps, bumps and lesions can look exactly like a sarcoid. The only definitive way to know if it is a true sarcoid is to do a biopsy. But the very act of taking the biospy can trigger aggressive growth if it IS a sarcoid. So my vets line of thinking makes sense. But this approach has a down side. If an owner thinks something on their horse IS a sarcoid and they then treat it with something they heard about somewhere - let's just say cold custard just to make the point - and the odd "something" clears up (apparently) with daily applications of cold custard, then the owner will believe that cold custard cures sarcoids. The reality was probably that the "something" on the horse wasn't a sarcoid in the first place and was just about ready to be cured by the horse's own immune system anyway. That's why I'm always so very wary of "miracle" cures.

The BCG option link as follows: http://www.liv.ac.uk/sarcoids/treatment/immune/index.htm - it's Prof K's uni. My understanding is that it can be successful on certain types of sarcoids in certain difficult places when a toxic cream isn't an option.
 
It was Liverpool cream they were treated with. Perhaps it is unlikely that the treatment spread them but it is fact that the whole area which was raw from the cream is now a mass of sarcoids so IMO it is unlikely that the flies would have all bitten him in the same place.
He is 15
 
I'm surprised your Vet used Liverpool Cream in that location - my Vet won't because the cream will rub onto other areas of skin. I think I would be tempted to speak to another Vet with more experience of them.
 
BoF shhhhh!! You'll REALLY upset the people at Liverpool if they found out that your vet didn't get them to diagnose the sarcoid.... I had a convo with my vet about it, and she said that won't acept a vet diagnosis, it has to come from them. (I expect your vet had some cream left over at their practise or something, I have heard of that happening)
 
My young horse had pics taken and forwarded to Prof K April 2009. It was about a month later before my vet got the Liverpool Cream. The horse had suspected sarcoids in her armpit, girth, tummy midline, udder and inside both hindlegs. All areas were treated with the cream over the next few months. TBH the armpit caused more probs than any other location and we ended up with a large 3cm round crator which has scarred. All the other sites have left small marks. To date she is sarcoid/lump free although if they do return my insurance won't cover the cost now. I do rate Prof K and his team but do wonder if all referrals are treated as sarcoids as the photos I forwarded weren't that great. So having had this expensive treatment and having put my horse through a fair amount of pain (is still not happy at me touching her thigh/udder area) would the lumps have disappeared on their own anyway?? I have mixed feelings, it's great that she's lumpfree at the mo but did I treat too quickly based more on me worrying about my insurance time limit being up and would they have gone anyway if I'd left them?
 
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