Sawing vs talking down the reins

[Mythical]

Are they the same thing? (I suspect this may be a can of worms)

I've had an RS and a freelance instructor both tell me that I needed to "talk down the reins" in order to get the horse to bring it's head down. Both taught me to do this at a standstill - "you just squeeze the reins like this and voila" I saw one of them get on another horse (to help out when it was being a prat) and bring her hands down to her knees and really saw at it's mouth... which of course I thought was normal.

I had a lesson with a new instructor today, and as my horse has other issues besides bringing her head down, I decided long before I walked into the lesson to forget about her head and focus on things like straightness and lateral bend.

By about ten minutes into the lesson, my legs were killing me, but we had her bending beautifully on both reins and as straight as she should be where she needed to be. It was just magic when by the end of the lesson she was carrying herself in a lovely outline, listening attentively, was forward and straight and bendy. I didn't get to test the brakes because by the gods did she want to stop at the end of it!!!

Chatting with the instructor at the end of the lesson, she would have refused to teach me had I not decided to leave her head alone and keep my hands still....

So after all my rambling....have I been sawing at mouths this whole time???

 

[emma.is]

my instructor taught me to vibrate my hands to 'talk down the reins' huge amounts of movement is sawing

 

[Littlelegs]

On the surface, it sounds like you may have been a bit busy with the reins before, but the main thing is you now have learnt the correct way to do it. And don't beat yourself up, by the sounds of it, sawing wasn't your idea, it was the instructors fault. If you pay an instructor you should expect them to know their job, unfortunately some are clueless, but that's hardly your fault as the client until you are shown otherwise. So don't focus on what you might have been doing in the past, just the benefits of now having what sounds like a good instructor.

 

[Shutterbug]

I have been taught the sawing method by previous RI's - my current RI advocates a squeezing of the reins as though they were a small sponge in order to vibrate the message down the reins. Littlelegs is right - dont beat yourself up for doing it wrong when thats how someone else has taught you

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I view "sawing" the reins and "talking down the reins" (by vibrating them or squeezing them) to be versions of the same thing, to achieve the same effect, but with one being harsher than the other. I prefer your new instructors approach.

 

[yeeharider]

I disagree sawing the mouth is an over play of an aid try squeezing hand as though you are holding a sponge little finger rolling up to index finger, remember to open your inside hand to allow vour horse somewhere to drop into you should be good to go

 

[Kaylum]

I remember a girl had a horse on loan and had this idea of sawing. The poor mares mouth was bleeding after a couple of days.

 

[tallyho!]

That's terrible. I was also taught this as a youngster but now I know a bit better. Your new instructor is right. Forget the reins, forget the head. Get the hindquarters engaging, the back lifting and swinging and the head WILL sort itself out.


Lateral work is so important. there shouldn't be any sawing of the reins. You should offer support with the outside rein and ask for bend with the inside rein, whilst pushing your inside leg into your outside hand.

Circles and shoulder in.

I despair when I hear of teachers teaching people to saw or talk down the reins. It's much simpler than that!

 

[Mythical]

Thanks for all the replies, and advice not to beat myself up.
My horse and I like my new instructor better too. (and she possibly prefers her new rider; I'm certainly very pleased with my 'new' horse!)
Quiet hands all the way from now on.

 

[WestCoast]

I'm struggling a little with the instruction I'm getting at present because when I rode before (admittedly a long time ago) I eventually learnt (after some truly terrible initial lessons) to only use a squeeze the reins to gently signal a slowing of pace (along with sitting down in the saddle). Everything else was body. All this being told to shorten the reins and do half stops while the horse is going forwards well really gets on my nerves. Most of the videos I looked at when buying were of people who seemed to have yanked their poor horse's head right under it and the poor thing looked like it might fall over. Mind you even the Olympic dressage seems to have a touch of that.

I knew I had the right person to teach my baby when the guy out with me to view didn't pull at her mouth at all. Good thing - the reason she was shy to make contact was a sore mouth (now treated).

So my lessons are now lunge lessons to get my seat really solid without worrying about continually being told to shorten my reins.

Paula

 

[tallyho!]

Lunge lessons are the best thing you can do for yourself, and your horse.

Practice your seat in the car, on a chair, one of those exercise balls and squeeeeze those buttock and thigh muscles. Imagine you are moving the seat/ball from side to side with the muscles. To get the horse to stop or slow squeeze together and sit up takes practice mind. A horse that has been used to having its back teeth removed to signal a stop won't cotton on straight away. Will probably think youre farting or something....

 

[WestCoast]

A horse that has been used to having its back teeth removed to signal a stop won't cotton on straight away. Will probably think youre farting or something....

OK I just laughed out loud on the train and got "weirdo" looks. Should've known pushing the boat out and buying first class down to the Olympics was a mistake. "It's alright everyone, I'm not mad, I'm laughing at a fart joke".

 

[tallyho!]

At least you weren't practising a lateral movement aid on your expensive 1st class seat... that may have invited a few nose wrinklings too

Ooh and have fun at the Olympics!!!!

 

[Wagtail]

Hmmm, interesting one. I do hate it when I see people who constantly ride with their hands on their thighs fiddling with the reins . However, I also hate the all too common method of shortening the reins and riding into an unyeilding still contact This latter method produces horses that eventually give in and go in a 'correct' outline, but their poor mouths must be numb. Neither method is good, and neither method produces a rider that has feel. The aim should be a horse that carries itself and is light in front. You should aim to have a still but very light contact with the horse as his weight should be back on his hind quarters and powered over his back. You cannot get this by low fiddling, sawing hands or by heavy unyeilding contact and strong legs pushing the horse into that contact. There should be movement in the rein, but only to correct. A quick half halt with the leg on, or a quick vibration with the hand. If ridden correctly, these movements will be almost invisible.