Scared of my youngster.. help

[angrybird1]

At his stage he's like a teenager. Testing you out a bit possibly. I would turn him out and for a while just do his basic care.
Try to find a good local instructor. Have a look to see if there are any intelligent horsemanship/ Kelly Marks instructors near you. Having a little break may help you both.
Try reading Kelly Marks books too. Good luck. Everyone will tell you you need experience to handle a young horse that's partly true but everyone has to start somewhere.
The bond thing is strange really. You don't need one but if you have one it does make things easier. If say it's more trust than a bond.

 

[soloequestrian]

One other thing to think about might be what he is turned out with. A lively young horse needs to play so if he is out with older, staid companions he will probably try to play with you. If you can give him company that plays with him a lot (and tires him out!) you might find he is much easier to handle.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Agree with other comments on here esp re. gelding him and getting a professional in.

Also. PLEASE. If you are handling him at all then kit yourself up with some PPE first, i.e. hat, body protector, gloves, good supportive boots.

But really, my inclination right now would be that this pony has got plain rude! Personally what I would do, for now, if you can, is turn him out in as big a herd as you can - with some dominant mares if you can find such a herd - and they will pretty soon lick this cheeky little monkey into shape! Horses will do what you as a human cannot; he needs a good chivvy round and kicking hard in the guts a few times and then he might just learn some manners! My old gal was such a mare; give her a day with anything that was a problem and she'd sort it!

Long term: sorry to say it, and sorry if it sounds harsh, but I think you might have to re-evaluate your own ability to deal with a youngster; unless you intend getting a professional in and/or sending him away for backing. You don't say what, if any, prior experience you may have with youngsters? But I think the title of your post "Scared of my youngster" basically says it all...........Unless checked, this youngster will get more bolshy not less as the years go by and there is potential for his behaviour to become even more dangerous/challenging. Sorry, I appreciate not what you want to hear, but at the end of the day you have your own safety to consider, end of.

 

[angrybird1]

Hes already been folded last year apparently.

 

[angrybird1]

Gelded even cant edit.

 

[Red-1]

I don't think you have an unbreakable bond at all, as far as I am concerned, he broke any such notion when he ran at you (and I think any idea of an unbreakable and was one sided on your side in the first place).

I used to go out helping people with youngsters like this, and the notion of "never giving up" is a grand one, but it has to be every single second of every day. So turning and running is giving up. You did give up. Not that I berate you for that, it sounds like you don't have the experience to train this horse at the moment and you took yourself out of danger in that moment. The running at you will not have appeared from nowhere, there will have been signs, where he flexed his mental muscles. He will have given a few shifts of weight etc to see what would happen way before he ran down the line. Allowing this to continue will lead to the horse learning things that will not stand him in good stead for the future as well as putting you in immediate danger.

I think you are right to be scared right now. I think that if you continue in the current vein then you will be in danger, so kudos to you for releasing that and coming on here for advice.

You have a number of routes available (4 main ones on first thought) to you. Continuing as you are and being in danger, having self doubts and not enjoying your horse is one of those possible routes, but your question sounds like you want another route. So, first option gone.

It boils down to 3 other alternative possibilities. Either you get enough education to be able to step up and train/handle the horse yourself in relative safety. Or, you buy in/send away to someone who already has those skills. Or, you sell the horse. I understand the last is already discounted (although I would personally keep this one under review), so either a lot of instruction to up-skill yourself, or someone else doing the handling.

Many trainers have started back training this week. What area are you in, as someone here may know of someone who can help. Alternatively, many training years have never stopped taking in horses for training. Until you can sort this out, I would leave turned away and handle minimally. Although, I bet you can get someone to you within the week.

 

[Suechoccy]

Funny story which might cheer you up: when my first youngster (I bought him as a 10 month foal) was about 3.5, I took him to an in-hand tree training clinic at the local riding club field where he'd previously been to two in-hand youngster shows. I was having a bad confidence crisis at the time, trailered him there, he was very uptight, half-rearing, spinning, wanting to get to other horses, and I didn't help matters much. The instructor took him from me and he turned into an utter dobbin, calmly following her over the obstacles. She handed him back to me and said "what would you like to do now?" and at age of 49 I burst into tears in front of her and my two friends and blubbed "I'd like you all to help me load him so I can take him home" which they did, and I got him home, put him out with my riding horse and wondered how on earth to move on from that low point and how useless and big headed I was to have ever thought I could cope with a youngster. I decided just to feed and groom him each day as I felt safe doing those things, picking up his feet, that sort of thing. We got heavy rains, the fields flooded and my horses were evacuated into a 30 acre field with 9 geldings and 7 cattle. We spent 6 months there. He released his pent-up teenageness with 3 of the other teenage horses, while the older geldings kept them in their right places. Last couple of months I was there, between 4 human owners we group-backed all 4 youngsters in a taped off corner of the field, helping each other, and then we hacked out as a big group. Then we all returned to our homes and said goodbye, the 30 acre field was sold. My naughty youngster is now my lovely 10 year old riding horse. So rest assured there are plenty of good days to come to balance any bad days.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

The last foal I bred was a lovely confident boy from day one but by the time he was a year old was stubborn, opinionated and we did not get on. He was gelded and just left out with the other horses with minimal handling. At 3 I think, I started doing a bit with him, taught him about lunging but nothing else. Sold him at 4 unbroken, by then he was leading well and understood lunging but had done very little. That horse had never been in a stable or a trailer yet he loaded first time, travelled well and I was told that he happily went into a stable in an indoor set up. Never put a foot wrong. Made me wish I had kept him as my riding horse but we just didn't gel.
Don't give up hope, get the right help and put the work in and you should get there. If not, don't hesitate to sell and get something that suits you better.

 

[paddy555]

don't forget he is a teenager. Young horses of all ages go through spells of being nice, cuddly and bonding with you. Then the next week they will have forgotten all of that and be the stroppy teenager who puts 2 fingers up to you.
When mine have done that I just relegate them to the field and wave them goodbye. Go back in a couple of months and you have a different horse who then wants to learn. Then you do a bit more and then you get the stroppy teenager again who needs time out.
Mine for example was horrible at 3. At 3.5 he was completely different and really wanted to be with me and learn. By 4 it had all gone out of the window again. Now at 5 he is wonderful, ridden, kind and really wants to learn.

You have to go with them and not be depressed when they behave like young yobs. Think about everything you are going to do with him. You will for example have no control on the end of a lunge rein, the horse can basically do what he wants. Keep him on a short rope, keep back at his shoulder, put something on his head that will control him, put a hat on and carry a short stick. Think where you are going to lead him and if there could possibly be a difficult situation. If so work out what you will do before you go. If you are going to turn him out think how you will do it beforehand to keep yourself safe. Make sure he knows his space which is definitely not in your space. Make sure he knows "back" as the first command you teach him ie get back out of my space before you hurt me.

He is unlikely to have a bond with you yet, you are simply there to be challenged as to whether you are up to being his herd leader. As he gets older, trained and you work together that is when you will develop your bond as he grows to respect you, to listen to you and to want to work with you.

 

[Shilasdair]

Sod the 'unbreakable bond' crap - he is obviously not feeling quite so lovestruck with you!

I'd give you one tip - teach him to respect your personal space.
On both occasions that's been his issue - he didn't think twice about spooking into you (and in fact over you) and then in the lunge pen thought he could do it again.

When interacting with him, wear a hat, gloves, safe boots, and a jacket or something to protect your arms. Carry a short stick. If he enters your space, barges or crowds you, insist he moves away, saying either 'over' or 'back' as you do. If he ignores you, up the ante, smack him with the whip if necessary. When he moves, verbally praise him.

Also - when he's tied up - he's never allowed to swing into you - and you need to insist he stands up, quietly. Same in the stable - he has to back up when you open the door/feed him or whatever.

Cobs, natives and some drafts tend to be a bit rude about space - one of mine was and I spent her first few years deliberately walking into her in the field, so that she had to get out of my way. I'm the boss - so should you be.

 

[Leandy]

The "bond" stuff is fanciful nonsense. Turn him away in a suitable herd until later in the year when it is time for him to come in, learn how to be civilised and be backed and started. Get a professional to do that for you, someone you can watch and learn from. Turn him away again for the winter and next spring get a professional to get him riding away for you and to help you work him properly. He isn't a pet, there is no point to trying to lunge in walk now, it won't keep his brain occupied it is causing him to think up evasions and you really don't want to be starting like that. His brain will be perfectly well occupied being a horse in a suitable herd environment without you teaching him bad habits, which is what, albeit inadvertently, you are now doing.

 

[PurBee]

My gelding weaned at 6 months, spent a year with some other horses, and due to him being the rookie of the herd got bossed about. Herd dynamics taught him to submit to older bossier horses yet It also taught him how to be bossy, so when he returned to me at roughly 18 months with his older herd-leading mare, he displayed behaviour exceedingly different to the basic manners groundwork behaviour he had been taught by me as a foal before having experienced a herd.

His newfound education caused him to double barrel catapult me 15 feet across the field into the electric fence line, just after putting hay out for them! It happened so quick i didnt have reaction time, not did i see any pre-signals this was coming. He was mimicking what he learnt from other horses around food and thought he could project the behaviour he experienced at me, due to me being smaller/new/he was unsure where i was in the herd at that time, due to it being literally the first week of arrival here, so they were in fields to settle here without too much interference.

I was literally floored ?...however, with the shock of this burst of dominant behaviour, and having got electrified too as well as thumped in the chest by his back feet, i was wobbly and furious , but understanding the dynamics at play, knowing if i left the field then i would instill in him ’he was boss’, so i roared loudly and charged at him with the tubtrug i held the entire time,( which was held infront of me when he kicked me saving my ribs from breaking, ) and they both backed away as i ‘owned’ the food pile of hay.

Both him and the mare backed way off, and i noticed the mare the entire time, bless her, had this sideways shy submissive look of ‘i cant believe you did that to her’...she stopped eating anyway and became spectator.
After owning the pile for 15 seconds, them looking forward at me, calm, i then invited them into the pile to eat, then i left the field.
Subsequent feeds in the field the lunge whip was with me, just in case, but i didnt need it, the first experience of my reaction to him had cemented in his mind i was higher in the herd than him.

Be firm, always with a young gelding. Bond only comes when respect is 2 way, and then its a bond of respect Of position, like in a herd. Love is a human construct, not animal. We can love them, sure, even when they crush us, but dont expect any ‘return’ of love from an animal.

 

[GreyMane]

My "young horse" experience, this happened when I was a teenager.
I was letting a youngster out into a field which already had 2 older horses in it. The youngster was bargy on the way there, despite having a leadrope round his nose and an elbow braced against his neck. Got through the gate but before I could take the halter off, he charged off, giving me both barrels. I was winded, let go the rope and passed out. I woke up a few minutes later under a blanket, realising I'd peed myself, my pillow felt very gravelly, and why could I hear people chatting in my room?
I was lucky; the only damage was a bruised chest, I could not put a bra on for 2 weeks. The youngster got sent away for a bit of extra training. Could have been a lot worse.

Been reading Mark Rashid during lockdown; he talks about being "soft" which is NOT the same as being nice to the horse all the time; being soft is being ready to do "whatever is needed" in a training situation. Dealing with a big youngster going through a stroppy phase may not - temporarily - be as pretty as one would like. Good luck OP.

 

[JFTDWS]

Been reading Mark Rashid during lockdown; he talks about being "soft" which is NOT the same as being nice to the horse all the time; being soft is being ready to do "whatever is needed" in a training situation. Dealing with a big youngster going through a stroppy phase may not - temporarily - be as pretty as one would like. Good luck OP.

There are many worse things the OP could do than read a bit of Mark Rashid.

The kindest thing you can do for a horse is to teach it the lesson in the least stressful way you can do it. And sometimes that's ugly, high energy, "intense" stress, if that's what the horse needs to get from A to B, and the alternatives are worse.

 

[Michen]

Everyone has a knock in confidence now and again so don’t beat yourself up too much ?
Young horses often try to push their boundaries. It’s difficult if your not used to them but try not to take things personally. Remember they are not born knowing how to behave around us humans so it’s our job to let them know how to behave and yes, that means tough love sometimes.

I would agree it would be good to have someone more experienced to help show you how to get things right, he’s actually better off chilling in the field until you can do this rather than learning bad manners.

If you need to get his brain engaged long reining is much better than lunging as you have more control over his body so stop him spinning in at you. Long reining is a good part of a young horses education and at 3 it’s a great time to get him out seeing the world, get him used to a bit contact, steering installed etc.

Good luck. Stay positive.

I would caveat this, if you are inexperienced long reining you need professional help and instruction. I have done a fair whack of long reining in my short ish time with some difficult horses, you have to be so quick to correct/control of there is a real risk of getting a horse tangled up if they spin etc.

I actually now would be reluctant to long rein any young horse outside of an arena without a second person to hand especially on the roads.

 

[Cortez]

I would caveat this, if you are inexperienced long reining you need professional help and instruction. I have done a fair whack of long reining in my short ish time with some difficult horses, you have to be so quick to correct/control of there is a real risk of getting a horse tangled up if they spin etc.

I actually now would be reluctant to long rein any young horse outside of an arena without a second person to hand especially on the roads.

I'm glad you said this ^^^ Long lining is an advanced skill, seldom performed well. It's not something I routinely do with young horses, unless they are going to be draught animals. OP, your horse is rude and potentially dangerous. My best advice is to get a professional in to teach him manners. "Bonding" is best left in the fantasy novels where it comes from as it is singularly useless in horse training.

 

[Chianti]

I'd just like to add that it may be that the spring grass is giving him extra energy and he may become easier again in a couple of months. Even oldies get a bit more of a spring in their step this time of year!

 

[katey4cobs]

I don't think you have an unbreakable bond at all, as far as I am concerned, he broke any such notion when he ran at you (and I think any idea of an unbreakable and was one sided on your side in the first place).

I used to go out helping people with youngsters like this, and the notion of "never giving up" is a grand one, but it has to be every single second of every day. So turning and running is giving up. You did give up. Not that I berate you for that, it sounds like you don't have the experience to train this horse at the moment and you took yourself out of danger in that moment. The running at you will not have appeared from nowhere, there will have been signs, where he flexed his mental muscles. He will have given a few shifts of weight etc to see what would happen way before he ran down the line. Allowing this to continue will lead to the horse learning things that will not stand him in good stead for the future as well as putting you in immediate danger.

I think you are right to be scared right now. I think that if you continue in the current vein then you will be in danger, so kudos to you for releasing that and coming on here for advice.

You have a number of routes available (4 main ones on first thought) to you. Continuing as you are and being in danger, having self doubts and not enjoying your horse is one of those possible routes, but your question sounds like you want another route. So, first option gone.

It boils down to 3 other alternative possibilities. Either you get enough education to be able to step up and train/handle the horse yourself in relative safety. Or, you buy in/send away to someone who already has those skills. Or, you sell the horse. I understand the last is already discounted (although I would personally keep this one under review), so either a lot of instruction to up-skill yourself, or someone else doing the handling.

Many trainers have started back training this week. What area are you in, as someone here may know of someone who can help. Alternatively, many training years have never stopped taking in horses for training. Until you can sort this out, I would leave turned away and handle minimally. Although, I bet you can get someone to you within the week.

hello, thank you for your reply. All week I have been doing minimal things ie grooming, picking feet up, going for a couple of walks (brave pants on) and getting my confidence back and showing him I am the boss, not someone who he can play with.
I have had a local and well recommended instructor visit this week to help me, and my confidence too. He is this weekend going for 6 weeks to start his backing journey. He is more than ready for this, and for my confidence and my sake too it was the best decision I have ever made.
I agree, me thinking there was a bond, was stupid. I love him, but I am the boss now and I will continue to show that.
Thank you so much again

 

[katey4cobs]

I'd just like to add that it may be that the spring grass is giving him extra energy and he may become easier again in a couple of months. Even oldies get a bit more of a spring in their step this time of year!

yes! He has been rather full of himself after going into a field that’s been left since last September!!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Brilliant update. When he comes back, make sure you continue with an instructor who’s good with youngsters.

 

[katey4cobs]

Everyone has a knock in confidence now and again so don’t beat yourself up too much ?
Young horses often try to push their boundaries. It’s difficult if your not used to them but try not to take things personally. Remember they are not born knowing how to behave around us humans so it’s our job to let them know how to behave and yes, that means tough love sometimes.

I would agree it would be good to have someone more experienced to help show you how to get things right, he’s actually better off chilling in the field until you can do this rather than learning bad manners.

If you need to get his brain engaged long reining is much better than lunging as you have more control over his body so stop him spinning in at you. Long reining is a good part of a young horses education and at 3 it’s a great time to get him out seeing the world, get him used to a bit contact, steering installed etc.

Good luck. Stay positive.

Thank you for your reply, I was naive in thinking we had a “bond” . This week he has learnt who is boss and who isn’t to be messed with, but also rewarded for his good behaviour. I’ve had a reputable trainer helping me this week and my confidence is almost back to where it was. He is this weekend going and starting his backing journey, where he will be gone for 6 weeks. The trainer is confident he’s ready. Thank you again for your kind reply!

 

[katey4cobs]

Brilliant update. When he comes back, make sure you continue with an instructor who’s good with youngsters.

The trainer who is breaking him will be working with me 4 times a week helping me and him work together. I’m confident we will do this!

 

[HappyHorses:)]

Fantastic! Hey we all need some help/advice/kick up the butt sometimes. Shows you are a great owner, you acknowledged a problem, asked for advice and got going with a plan ??
Looking forward to seeing updates please!

 

[katey4cobs]

Fantastic! Hey we all need some help/advice/kick up the butt sometimes. Shows you are a great owner, you acknowledged a problem, asked for advice and got going with a plan ??
Looking forward to seeing updates please!

definitely! I knew I was mainly the problem and I’m working on that, and will continue to do so with the correct help until I am confident enough! But you’re right. I needed the advice and needed to wake up, and forget about a “bond” and realise he needs to learn who is the boss. I will definitely update you all! Thank you so much again

 

[katey4cobs]

The "bond" stuff is fanciful nonsense. Turn him away in a suitable herd until later in the year when it is time for him to come in, learn how to be civilised and be backed and started. Get a professional to do that for you, someone you can watch and learn from. Turn him away again for the winter and next spring get a professional to get him riding away for you and to help you work him properly. He isn't a pet, there is no point to trying to lunge in walk now, it won't keep his brain occupied it is causing him to think up evasions and you really don't want to be starting like that. His brain will be perfectly well occupied being a horse in a suitable herd environment without you teaching him bad habits, which is what, albeit inadvertently, you are now doing.

Thank you for the advice, I have had a reputable trainer in with me this week, and my pony is now starting his backing journey this week and is being sent away for 6 weeks. The trainer is confident he is ready, and is going to work with both of us as well afterwards. I am much more confident now and I have learnt and acknowledged the errors of my ways.

 

[katey4cobs]

At his stage he's like a teenager. Testing you out a bit possibly. I would turn him out and for a while just do his basic care.
Try to find a good local instructor. Have a look to see if there are any intelligent horsemanship/ Kelly Marks instructors near you. Having a little break may help you both.
Try reading Kelly Marks books too. Good luck. Everyone will tell you you need experience to handle a young horse that's partly true but everyone has to start somewhere.
The bond thing is strange really. You don't need one but if you have one it does make things easier. If say it's more trust than a bond.

Thank you for your advice.

I have had a reputable trainer work with us both this week, and it has been great, and my confidence is back up and I have learnt the errors in my ways and I am showing I am the boss. He is starting his backing journey this weekend, and the trainer is confident he is ready. Thank you again

 

[Lois Lame]

Today when we were lunging him, I was in the middle, with the lunge line and he charged towards me.. and I stupidly ran out of the way, and he went up in the air again...

I point blank refuse to give up on him as we have an unbreakable bond...

I'm perplexed about your unbreakable bond when this fellow has charged at you. He seems to have a different opinion.

 

[Lois Lame]

I’m just trying my best but people are really really hard on me. I won’t give up, thanks so much!

Sometimes giving up is the right thing to do.

 

[Lois Lame]

People are hard because they are reading what you’ve written. They don’t want you hurt, despite not knowing you. They also don’t want a youngster ruined. Stop being so down on yourself, get some professional experienced help before you decide on his future.

When you were lunging, did you have a lunge whip? I don’t care how safe you think he is, never lunge a horse without one.

Exactly. It's you I'm worried about more than the horse, katey4cobs

 

[Red-1]

hello, thank you for your reply. All week I have been doing minimal things ie grooming, picking feet up, going for a couple of walks (brave pants on) and getting my confidence back and showing him I am the boss, not someone who he can play with.
I have had a local and well recommended instructor visit this week to help me, and my confidence too. He is this weekend going for 6 weeks to start his backing journey. He is more than ready for this, and for my confidence and my sake too it was the best decision I have ever made.
I agree, me thinking there was a bond, was stupid. I love him, but I am the boss now and I will continue to show that.
Thank you so much again

The trainer who is breaking him will be working with me 4 times a week helping me and him work together. I’m confident we will do this!

definitely! I knew I was mainly the problem and I’m working on that, and will continue to do so with the correct help until I am confident enough! But you’re right. I needed the advice and needed to wake up, and forget about a “bond” and realise he needs to learn who is the boss. I will definitely update you all! Thank you so much again

Fantastic. I do write a long piece often on this sort of post, because I want everyone to have fun with their horses and more importantly to stay safe. I think you have a really positive plan in place now. Especially where the instructor will come and help 4 times a week.