Schooling/ Dressage Advice Needed Please!

[SilentEcho]

Hi everyone - I'm a bit of a lurker on here but seriously need some help. Basically the problem is that I struggle to keep my 15hh 7yo Connemara working into a true and consistent outline in which she is forward, soft and through. In general terms we can potter along in an ok lowish outline but when I ask her to come up more infront I find that I really struggle to maintain the consistency. I have very regular lessons with a BHSI and she does not have this problem with her - (in fact I am thinking of asking her to school her for me for about a month - opinions valued) a lot of the problems stem from the fact that my left side is much weaker and this is especially shown up when riding new movements. During schooling sessions we work through a variety of leg yeilding, shoulder-in and rein back exercises and have just started work on pirouettes, next steps being travers and half-pass. The mare in question is also a little lazy off the leg and built slightly on her forehand and in general can take the p*** out of me. Sorry for rambling on but any help and advice is greatly appreciated as at the moment I'm getting really down about it, seriously questioning my ability and not enjoying the progress we are making (I have brought her on myself),

Thanks in advance, H.

 

[KatB]

Hiya,

I think you have found the answer yourself, the fact she is a little bit slow off the leg means you'll find it difficult to ever have her up in front, as that is only brought about by true activity and engagement from behind.
I would work on lots and lots of transitions, through the paces and within the paces to get her working through from behind, and so lifting the forehand. SHe needs to be reacting to the tiniest touch from your leg, and into a consistant, still contact.

By the sounds of things you are doing everything right, and it will come with time, and sharpening up her responses.

 

[Tempi]

you need to cut down the amount of grass she is on, perhaps turn out for only a couple of hours every other day, and cut down hay, and give her more hard feed. Obviously dont do all these at once, but id definately cut down on grazing - im assuming she gets turned out?

My mare is lazy and on the forehand (well used to be), do lots of transitions from trot to walk for three strides then back into trot again, in the downwards transition (NOT the upwards) tap her behind with the stick a couplt of times to get her to bring her quarters up and under you/herself. Canter walk/walk canter transitions are good for using the hind quarters too. Also raised trotting poles..ive got loads of exercises on this sort of problem, so if you want feel free to PM me.

What is she being fed?

 

[MrsMagoo]

Ooh P_G your advice sounds right about what i need...as you know my mare looks identical to yours

mind if i PM you?

How do you manage P_G weight/feeding etc? Star is soo greedy and lives of fresh air so its hard as shes turned out daily, in at night with hay, and I also give her a morning/evening hard feed. Feel i need to give the hard feed to accomadate what im taking out, if you know what i mean. Somone said put a grazing muzzle on her but i feel really bad lol

 

[Tempi]

feel free to PM me hun

xx

 

[katiejaye]

Hey, your problems sound so much like mine were. I also am very weak on my left side as I have scoliosis in my back which mean my right side is very strong and over-compromises for my left. It has caused me lots of problems in the past and I sympathise as it can make riding even on both reins quiet tricky. I suggest that in conjunction with exercises to help your horse strengthen up behind, you should consider also ex for yourself to balance out your right and left side. I started seeing a physio who has helped me to strengthen up my left side and has recommended me to core training (like pilates). It has helped my riding so much. Now I am more balanced and stronger through my stomach and back, Louis has also become much more consistent in his head carriage.

I agree with the comments above that transitions will help to build up more strength behind and promote more consistency. Once you can get the hindquarters more engaged then it is much easier to prevent the horse leaning on your hands.

 

[Skhosu]

I disagree that less turnout, less hay and more feed is the issue here. Either it will make no difference or you could have a very wound up horse on your hands.
I would make sure she is getting enough energy and then work on transitions etc. If you think a month schooling would help, go for it, but would she then just revert? How long have you been having this problem as it may just solve itself in time with lots of work.
Is she fit enough?
I would go back to basics before teaching her any more movements, getting her really moving forwards. Also, get her moving forwards before asking for an outline, if that makes sense?

 

[MillionDollar]

What???? I don't understand how this will help!!!!????
I actually think that is really bad to give a horse hardly any turnout and no ad lib hay- and more hard feed!! That is sooo bad for horses- leads to many health problems such as colic, cribbing and tying up!! Definitely not how nature intended.

All my horses live out 24/7 with hard feed if neccessary when they are working hard. One includes a Danish Warmblood who has competed up to Medium level very well and qualified for Hickstead.

I think this issue is a schooling one where only lots of hard work will pay off, especially the rider if the horse goes well under the instructor.

 

[chestnut cob]

I can't believe I've just read that!!!

How on earth is reducing her turnout going to help??!!

My horse has a tendency to be lazy. I've recently moved yards and am having lessons with the yard instructor. After only 4 sessions with her and one session where she schooled him, I have a horse that is now starting to respond to a tiny touch. 6 weeks ago this horse would even respond to the whip! He has learnt very quickly that he should move from a touch. This is being achieved by initially working on just walk and halt, making sure he moves off correctly and at the right pace from halt. I use just a touch and a click, if he doesn't respond he gets a click of the tongue again and a smack behind the leg. It took him a whole 10 mins to realise that if he moved off from the touch he didn't get smacked.

Within just 4 sessions I have a horse that now doesn't need to be smacked every other stride, a horse that asks "how fast?" when I use my leg instead of "oh, did you say something?". Rather that needing to "fiddle" into an outline (and I never use gadgets!) he now offers to come round, and it's just from getting him to move off my leg.

And this horse is turned out 24/7, will be til January, and is fed nothing but grass. I don't supplement, I don't give hard feed, and I don't stable. I also have a horse that is now happy in his work - the key to it was making sure that he understood MY aids. I have had to learn to be more consistent in how I ask for things. All that stabling him would have done is turn him into a nutter!

I'm sorry if this offends anyone but horses are not designed to be kept in 24/7. I would be really interested to hear how only turning out for a couple of hours every other day help with schooling. Surely getting results isn't worth that much to people that they would sacrifice their horses' natural behaviours and herd interactions?

 

[Doreys_Mum]

[ QUOTE ]
you need to cut down the amount of grass she is on, perhaps turn out for only a couple of hours every other day, and cut down hay, and give her more hard feed. Obviously dont do all these at once, but id definately cut down on grazing - im assuming she gets turned out?

My mare is lazy and on the forehand (well used to be), do lots of transitions from trot to walk for three strides then back into trot again, in the downwards transition (NOT the upwards) tap her behind with the stick a couplt of times to get her to bring her quarters up and under you/herself. Canter walk/walk canter transitions are good for using the hind quarters too. Also raised trotting poles..ive got loads of exercises on this sort of problem, so if you want feel free to PM me.

What is she being fed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell me thats a joke?

For heaven's sake women, you know nothing about horses, please, sell yours, no, screw that, GIVE it away and let someone who has a clue look after her!

How can you tell she's lazy when she's strapped up in lord knows what anyway?

 

[dieseldog]

I can see where P_G is coming from, my horse is naturally lazy and was definatley worse this year. This is the first year we had actually had any grass in our fields (having got rid of the liveries - normally he would have been on hay from June) and he was really sluggish. So bought him him everyday, fed him haylage and he felt a lot better. Might not suit every horse but it did mine.

I do have to remind him though at the start of everyride that when I ask him to move he is going to.

 

[chestnut cob]

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with bringing in. Mine had to come in this summer for a few weeks. He came in at midday until about 6pm, when I rode, with soaked hay. There's nothing wrong with bringing in for a few hours but to suggest turning out for 2 hours every other day

 

[hantastic]

Firstly, dont doubt your abilities. We all know riding is not easy, its something that comes with a lot of heartache along the way. By the sounds of it you are doing the best by your girl. best of all you are aware of your weakness's and are working on improving them. Your instructor should be able to ride your horse well, if she didnt id be questioing why i was paying someone, so dont judge yourself by her. It will all come together eventually.

AS for PG, sometimes you shock me, in fact most of the time you shock me! You really should not own a horse! You pump it full of suppliments with know background knowledge on the long term damage they may do to your horse. You are happy to feed high levels of concentrated feed and low levels of forage which is proven to lead to ulceration/stereotypical behaviours/acidosis that then leads to azotoria. You then dont allow her to display any natural behaviour by keeping her in solitude, behaviours that are essential for stress release and bond formation. Soemtimes people think they care but they go so far in the wrong direction...

 

[spaniel]

Echo....it sounds as though you are on the right track with your mare, its a case of schooling and lessons and building up your own strength which will come in time. It is frustrating when you know your horse can go well with your instructor but you should take heart that the horse CAN do it and that you have something positive to work towards.

As for keeping your horse shut in for days on end with very little fibre and loads of hardfeed....Im sorry but that is downright cruelty and results in horses not only going off their heads but serious physical problems as already mentioned elsewhere.

Please....you want your horse to be happy and healthy, to perform well for you and be willing to do so.....she needs to be mentally right to do this, not whizzed up to the eyeballs with grain feeds and then held together with extra bits of kit.

 

[_jetset_]

My mare can be a little lazy off the leg, so I agree with the suggestions that you need to do lots of transitions. I warm Hannah up first off her back, then ask for a more advanced outline and do lots of different transitions at this point. These include walk to trot, trot to halt, halt to walk, walk to canter... just keeping them as varied as possible otherwise the clever bugger knows what is coming and does it before asked.

Also do four 10m circles on a 20m circle as this gets their quarters engaging (but make sure your horse's quarters don't swing).

Rebecca

 

[SilentEcho]

Hi again! Thanks for all your replies and advice - it has certainly given me food for thought and encouragement. I think it is definately a case of progressive schooling and lessons (which I love!) to encourage my mare to be more respectful of my leg - I can see parallels with chestnut cobs reply as sometimes she is not as infront of the leg as she could be at this stage. Katiejaye - exercises based around yoga or pilates is such a good idea - thanks!!

 

[druid]

*waits patiently for the "Oh but the best dressage horses are kept like that" excuse*

 

[Doreys_Mum]

[ QUOTE ]
*waits patiently for the "Oh but the best dressage horses are kept like that" excuse*

[/ QUOTE ]

But all the best dressage horses have compitent riders...

 

[MrsMagoo]

OMG, just read all the replies and how bi*tchy can some people be on here - grow up!!! I understand where P_G is coming from, as my mare is exactly the same...but if you read properly shes not kept in solitude and kept like a cruelty case - she has ad-lib hay and play toys to stimulate her. If I was able to keep my mare in a bit longer then I would, certainly beats her getting overweight and then making her jump courses of 1.10m and dressage, that in its self would be cruelty....

Doreys_Mum - I think you really need to read and think about how things you say affect people. I we were to say to you what you said to P_G then the world would end. Just cause some people dont do as you do, doesnt make them bad horse owners and infact not know about owning horses...she cant be doing that bad, I dont see you going out winning and qualifying for dressage champs etc...The forum is for constructive critism, if you dont like what somone suggest dont say anything at all....

 

[burtie]

[ QUOTE ]
OMG, just read all the replies and how bi*tchy can some people be on here

[/ QUOTE ]

Have to agree MrMagoo, I've seen P_Gs horses at shows and she is the picture of health and happiness and a lovely mare. Whilst I may not agree with everything she has said her advice does have some merit and suits some(but not all horses).

I strongly disagree with competition horses never seing turnout, but the reality of it is that if you compete seriously regular and long turnout MAY NOT (and I stress may) suit you and your horse.

And when my competition mare was a bit sluggish I changed her hard feed to an oat based mix and that worked very well.(When she was at the comp yard she went out twice a week and was quite happy.) It is after all horses for courses and I feel some of the responses to P_G are totally out of order

.

 

[Dovorian]

Does she enjoy pole work/grid work, I've found that can held a great deal, especially with the 'chilled out' people, it's far easier to get them in front of your leg by encouraging them to do so , as opposed to feeding them goodness knows what and upsetting everything!

By the way, I think turnout is the best for any horse, be it dressage or happy hack!

 

[MrsMagoo]

agree turn out is good..but every other day kept in can not be deemed cruelty... by people on here saying that, there are literally saying all the SJ's, dressage trainers etc they admire treat there horses badly....

 

[Skhosu]

obviously a controversial issue, but I stick by what I say and we all have right to disagree( as I did) although not necessarily on a personal basis!
And yes... I would say a lot of top yards mistreat their horses by their management regime.

 

[Taz975]

I really dont think its necessary for people to be so rude about how other people treat their horses. There is more than one way to skin a cat (excuse the expression) and so long as the horses in question are happy and healthy (which P_Gs clearly is, as Im sure is everyone elses on here) then what on earth is the problem??
Is it not possible for people to exchange views and ideas without getting so personal??
(Sorry to interfere on your post btw!!)

 

[so03]

Can I ask what you want to achieve? Are you looking to compete in dressage to a high level? If not why are you pushing you and your horse so hard, the horse is still quite young.

Your instructor may be pushing you too hard. Perhaps the horse just isn't quite right or naturally capable for what you want to do.

Riding at lower levels should be a pleasure and if you are not enjoying it you need to assess the situation and find out why.

On the diet subject, personally, I agree with a high fibre diet. You can add extra energy by using haylage instead of hay. Instead of chaff use a feed such as Alfa A. If the horse is putting on weight, yes perhaps reduce their grazing, use a paddock with less grass in it for example.

There are lots of options. Good luck.

 

[Sparklet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*waits patiently for the "Oh but the best dressage horses are kept like that" excuse*

[/ QUOTE ]

But all the best dressage horses have compitent riders...

[/ QUOTE ]
Blimey - thats a bit rich, take it you are PSG standard then

 

[kick_On]

not connected with you sparklet
********************************
Hands bags at 10 paces or what!!!!!

This is an open forum and i mean EVERYONE is allowed to express there view, but come on .........

If some asks for advice your've going to get different views it makes the world go round

LIVE and LIVE

 

[Sparklet]

I'm sorry, I am really confused. What is 'not connected with me'?

I appreciate that different views will be expressed on the 'subject matter' but what has PG's riding got to do with feeding a horse?

 

[kick_On]

sorry i knew it would get this wrong -

but it was meant to be a general comment on this topic and i was trying to make sure you knew i wasn't having a pop at you.

 

[Sparklet]

My fault - I have read it the wrong way

. Apologies