Schooling ideas for head tossing horse?

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littlen

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I wondered if anyone had any words of wisdom I could use to help me!

I have a young 5 year old, recently backed. She has come along very nicely and is happy to be long reined, lunged and was sat on no problem. She has been worked in walk and trot however has really struggled with baby behaviour, panicking when leaving friends, violent spooking and mild head snatching.

I have been having weekly lessons but mainly hack as she isn't strong enough to school much. Her spooking has improved but she is still very green and hugely behind horses of her age. When she does spook it's very dramatic!

She has had her back and neck/poll checked. Wolf teeth removed. Saddle checked x2. Bridle professionally checked incase it's a headpiece or browband problem. I've ridden her with and without nosebands. She's had a trial of gastroguard incase it's ulcers and we have tried moody mare supplements as she's very dominant with horses and humans (scowls and kicks if they get too close)
She's had a full vet dental under sedation. I've tried nose nets, face masks etc.

The headshaking only occurs when she's unsure or napping. So for example she has been spooked and is stressed, she will continue snatching until she's calm. She also does it when she's excited.

She loves getting her tongue over the bit but can't as I've put it up a hole.
She hates snaffles of all types and is happiest in a happy tongue bit with lots of space.
We have tried jointed, straight, roller etc but she likes minimal movement and no tongue pressure so I think she's okay in the bit she's in.

Schooling wise what sort of things can I try to get her focused and listening to me?
Currently she's desperately looking for anything else to focus on (leaf, person, horse, anything!) and I can't seem to keep her attention long enough for her to learn anything. I've been doing the things my instructor set out (transitions and circles mainly) over and over but she's no better at all.

She has little to no concept of outline. My instructor has tried to show me tips but she does not quite get it.

Tack wise, would a martingale help if she's finlgif her head?
Should I try a flash to see if it settles her mouth?

She's never cantered which is a problem I'm avoiding for now as she can't physically get into it yet. She can lunged but with a rider she panics.

Finally despooking, has anyone got any tips for this?

Thanks in advance.
 
Im sure other more knowledgeable folk will be along later and without knowing her its difficult to say but I think immaturity may be a root cause. Keep hacking to improve strength as head tossing can be a way to relieve muscle ache and as much experience of life as possible to keep her interest...make sure hands are even and still to make sure it isn't a reaction against your hands. Completely forget outline which only comes through strength and balance...long and low is the aim at first. If in the school practice straightness and correct bend at corners and in circles and transitions. Use "props" to help you - poles or cones - this gives you something to focus you and your horse upon. Only do short lessons - going over and over something is boring hence the stopping listening to you..as soon as something has been done well...stop. My mare is five and she is learning and this is the approach I take with her.
 
She sounds as if she lacks confidence and until you can build it up she will get stressed and shake her head as one of the signs, instead of ridden schooling try doing more long reining, incorporate more into this to stretch her, polework, more transitions, get her attention on you behind her and encourage her to go forward without being distracted, sometimes it is easier to do from the ground as they have to get on with it and you are less likely to make excuses or allowances for their behaviour.

Keep hacking in company as much as you can, don't concern yourself with her being behind others of her age, she will be as she is behind ones that started 12 months or longer ago, work with the horse you have not the one others have, canter her on the lunge a bit to build her up but I would never lunge a young horse with a rider on as there is too much that can go wrong and most would struggle to turn in a circle anyway, let her pop into canter when she is ready not on a set day just when it feels right.

If the work she is doing in the lessons is not helping then the lessons are not suitable at this stage, they learn by repetition but they need to be ready to learn she may not be quite strong enough yet to cope with too many transitions so they may not be beneficial until she can carry herself forward into a rhythm and in some balance, changing gear just as they get going can undo good work so they need to be done at the correct time not just because they are supposed to help, the same with circles a poor circle is not going to help with balance, rhythm or her concentration, keep things simple and allow her to develop slowly, once she gets going and becomes confident she will probably come on in leaps and bounds .
 
I have a 4 year old who can be a bit like this. She struggles with schooling as she is a little croup high and can be quite unbalanced especially if she is tired - I concentrate on lots of halt-walk-trot transitions, big circles, figures of eight and serpentines to keep her focused. I keep her schooling lessons short and sweet and end on a good note. If she comes down from the field grouchy or spooky, I don't ride her as we end up fighting with each other. If I were you I wouldn't concentrate on an outline at the moment, it's more important that your horse builds her strength, suppleness and begins to work from behind then the outline will come. I often feel like I am riding a beach donkey!

Out hacking she is a different horse, we walk, trot and occasionally canter but again we only hack for a maximum of an hour as she tires herself out quick and starts headshaking and tripping which is no fun for either of us.

I tried a martingale on my mare as she once got spooked on a main road and ended up bolting with her head so high I couldn't stop her. Luckily this has never happened again and I have since taken the martingale off her, as it didn't make a difference. I would definitely try a flash if I was you, that was my next port of call but touch wood my mare seems quite happy at the moment.

Some horses take longer to mature than others, I used to think there was something wrong with my mare and couldn't understand why she struggled to canter, kept tripping and couldn't hack for an hour. She is a young horse at the end of the day what do I expect?? I concentrate and enjoy the things I can do with her at the moment, I keep everything positive and simple, give her lots of praise and touch wood she has come a long way in the past few months. I don't have an arena so will struggle to keep her schooling in winter but we will hack as much we can then hopefully next year when our field dries up enough to ride we can pick back up from where we left off.

Good luck and be patient :-)
 
I think she sounds like she isn't very confident in accepting that when you tell her something is okay then it is okay. It sounds as if you are coping well with her behaviour without improving it much. My advice would be to send her to a really good (and I mean really good - think top class rider/trainer) professional for a few weeks. Even if she is very immature at 5 she needs to learn to hack and do short, easy sessions in the school where she behaves calmly and is accepting of the contact and responds to the aids and not the environment. A good pro should be able to really improve things in 4-6 weeks and advise you on what to do afterwards - whether she wants a break or whether you should carry on and what you should be expecting from her. I think sometimes we get too close to our own horse to be able to see the wood from the trees (I certainly do!) and someone else who works with horses all the time can see a way through much more easily. However there are a lot of clots masquerading as professionals so do your research and remember that an extra £50 a week for 6 weeks is nothing in the long term costs of running a horse! Best of luck- your horse sounds very lucky to have an owner like you x
 
Firstly you don't have a head ****** per se. You have a young unbalanced horse lacking in confidence (in large part due to inexperience) who occasionally does one of the least bad things possible when stressed - that is pretty good!

I wouldn't use a flash (if horse doesn't like the bit and teeth, bridle etc are all fine then problem is the bit or the riding, not the horse!) and not a standing martingale either although a running one which doesn't do as much might give you the extra confidence you need whilst not really coming into play too often/scaring horse more when it does.

Outline for a horse that can't yet canter under saddle is frankly an unsuitable aim - change instructor for one who will tell you this. Seriously. Horse at this stage needs positive experiences, to be moving away from the leg and gaining confidence in rider, strengthening etc. Not having its mouth sawed in two to force it's head into a 'pretty' shape (it seems unlikely that horse will yet have the impulsion for a nice outline so stating a worst case here).

Would imagine horse needs to stretch more than it is currently being permitted ridden and that it needs more confidence from rider (positive, short, experiences, despooking inc. in-hand etc, riding out with others, blah, blah)

Enjoy
 
The advice I would give for a horse like this is ignore ignore ignore. You ride what you want if she tosses head just keep your hands still don't fight with her... think you are like side reins... and ride positively forward. This is normal baby behaviour . Don't worry about an out line just think forward and straight . It's about confidence . She has none so you need to have it for her.
 
Have you tried a Micklem bridle? It was a revelation with my horse. I've discussed it with a few very knowledgeable people and the consensus with them is that it's not necessarily the avoidance of the facial nerves etc but that they seem to hold the bit very still in the horse's mouth which some horses prefer (and explains why they work wonders with those they work with and do nothing for others). This has always been a factor with my horse - the stiller the better for him - so I buy that explanation. In terms of bits the only one he's really happy in is a Myler hanging cheek mullen mouth, it's definitely the one that stays the stillest in his mouth and the quite pronounced curve gives plenty of relief for his enormous tongue.
 
when my now 5 YO was backed last year, we struggled to find the right bit, and she was quite snatchy, with a high head carriage. What helped her was a leather covered bit. It seemed to help her accept the contact, shes now progressed into a standard French link. she settled much better, and gradually started to work in a contact naturally. She wasn't asked for a while, it just gradually happened. Good luck
 
Thankyou to you all.

Beth I think we have the same horse! Mine sounds very much the same as yours.

She's come on leaps and bounds on the ground and ridden in most respects. She is polite and can leave her friends now which was a huge issue before. She still is unhappy hacking alone, very nervous and edgy but we have done some small loops and survived.

I would describe her as reactive, in that if something makes a noise she shoots forward first then thinks second! She only does a few strides and stops but it has almost unsteated me a few times as her bum is right under and it's very unexpected m. Afterwards she stands confused!

She has reared in panic but that's only happened once or twice in very stressful situations so I can forgive her that. She has also bucked but they are always 'temper' bucks which I can push her through. More of a protest than get you off type buck.

The 'headshaking' is what's bothering me as it's annoying and I don't feel she's working properly at all. My instructor seems to be going over the same things over and over as she can't seem to progress enough to do more, I'm not sure if this is a lack of fitness or the fact my schooling is holding her back.

I am looking into some bit wrap to see if that helps.

We have tried a miklem, she is marginally improved although not enough for it to be a cure as such. She's also to be a show pony hopefully so a standard caveson is what i would prefer her in!

Outline is something I haven't really worked on. My instructor has helped me to try and get her to soften however she is stiff as a board especially on one rein and finds it really hard. This is when she tends to start headshaking and messing about.

Walk is the best gait. Trot is fast, strong and rushed although she is happy to half halt and extend to a point but steering is rubbish. The times we have asked for canter I have got mad rushed trot with head in the air and no steering/control so I've ended up stopping her as I don't want a mad canter with head in the air either!

I'm pleased to hear it's normal baby behaviour though. It's my first youngster and I am a bit out of my depth!
 
Walk is the best gait. Trot is fast, strong and rushed although she is happy to half halt and extend to a point but steering is rubbish. The times we have asked for canter I have got mad rushed trot with head in the air and no steering/control so I've ended up stopping her as I don't want a mad canter with head in the air either!
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...as-for-head-tossing-horse#YmWiwhcFDgXAbUmO.99


Slow everything down, she is nowhere near ready to be extending in trot, if you cannot steer in trot you will have no chance in canter so don't even try, you need to do more in walk until she is relaxed and soft, go into trot and aim for the same, steady, soft and slow, don't worry about impulsion as long as mentally she is thinking forward let her find her rhythm, relax and she will be less stiff, tension will be the cause of stiffness and until she relaxes she will not be able to soften it does not all fall into place together although once one bit does the rest should follow you have to concentrate on one part at a time although not exclusively.

I have a show pony in for schooling at the moment who was similar, he rushed everywhere, had no rhythm, his steering was non existent because he rushed everywhere so we walked, got him listening, did lots of turning and as he relaxed we introduced short trots, he is being ridden by a fairly novice child so we did everything slowly so they stayed together, the penny dropped after a few weeks and he can now relax into a decent trot, he is doing poles, hacking about and at 6 has not cantered intentionally under saddle as he is not yet ready to do so, he is nearly there but there is no rush and I don't want to set back the good work, I have educated hundreds over the years and some are slower than others to get going, the main thing to remember is to get the good work properly established before moving on and to keep going back to the basics even if it does seem you are getting nowhere.
 
Thankyou bepositive. It does feel like I'm getting nowhere as it's been one step forward 5 back with her. She's a slow learner and is more occupied with what's going on in the fields than doing anything productive. I also worry as friends have younger horses more established and sensible than her.

She can't extend in trot, what I meant was I can sort of ask for speed up and slow down and stay in the gait? She steers and turns well in walk and has some bend on one rein but practically none on the other. In trot there's no bend just motorbike then trotting faster and faster when she's unbalanced. I don't know why she's finding it so difficult as we have spent months walking the same movements but she isn't getting better at them.

She has improved hacking lots but is still prone to shooting forwards which I think is inexperience.

I had considered sending her away however was looking at £400 for 2 weeks by the time I had paid for transport etc and I just can't afford that at the moment. She's already cost me the price I paid for her in getting everything sorted and checked.
 
littlen said:
I wondered if anyone had any words of wisdom I could use to help me!

I have a young 5 year old, recently backed. She has come along very nicely and is happy to be long reined, lunged and was sat on no problem. She has been worked in walk and trot however has really struggled with baby behaviour, panicking when leaving friends, violent spooking and mild head snatching.

I have been having weekly lessons but mainly hack as she isn't strong enough to school much. Her spooking has improved but she is still very green and hugely behind horses of her age. When she does spook it's very dramatic!

She has had her back and neck/poll checked. Wolf teeth removed. Saddle checked x2. Bridle professionally checked incase it's a headpiece or browband problem. I've ridden her with and without nosebands. She's had a trial of gastroguard incase it's ulcers and we have tried moody mare supplements as she's very dominant with horses and humans (scowls and kicks if they get too close)
She's had a full vet dental under sedation. I've tried nose nets, face masks etc.

The headshaking only occurs when she's unsure or napping. So for example she has been spooked and is stressed, she will continue snatching until she's calm. She also does it when she's excited.

She loves getting her tongue over the bit but can't as I've put it up a hole.
She hates snaffles of all types and is happiest in a happy tongue bit with lots of space.
We have tried jointed, straight, roller etc but she likes minimal movement and no tongue pressure so I think she's okay in the bit she's in.

Schooling wise what sort of things can I try to get her focused and listening to me?
Currently she's desperately looking for anything else to focus on (leaf, person, horse, anything!) and I can't seem to keep her attention long enough for her to learn anything. I've been doing the things my instructor set out (transitions and circles mainly) over and over but she's no better at all.

She has little to no concept of outline. My instructor has tried to show me tips but she does not quite get it.

Tack wise, would a martingale help if she's finlgif her head?
Should I try a flash to see if it settles her mouth?

She's never cantered which is a problem I'm avoiding for now as she can't physically get into it yet. She can lunged but with a rider she panics.

Finally despooking, has anyone got any tips for this?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Hi, as others have commented this could be reflective of her age, lack of training, muscle etc, but we have had very similar experience with 6 year old recently transported from Ireland whose head shaking was put down to lack of muscle, training, avoiding contact etc. but turns out it was grade 3 ulcers. He was scoped & treated, scoped clear now & the head shaking & spookiness has stopped. It was like he had a bee on his nose & would constantly be trying to get it off. Not many people are aware of the link of head shaking & ulcers, it was the one thing that really niggled me pre diagnosis & so happy it has totally resolved because we have treated the ulcers. Another point was that he never did the headshaking when being lunged, in field, stable etc, he wasn't girthy at all but I have masses of videos showing head shake from day 1 over the course of 6 months. Hope this helps you.
 
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