Schooling livery - something just doesn't feel right...

The wife

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 August 2012
Messages
752
Location
It's a working progress
Visit site
Hi everyone,

Has anyone removed their horse from schooling livery as something just doesn't feel right? We used to run our own breaking, schooling and completion yard and i may be being very cynical and un-trusting of people as we had so many of other people's 'mistakes' in but in this case something feels amiss and I can't quite put my finger on what. He has only been there a little while.

I don't want to put too many details in case the producer is on here but progress reports don't seem to add up and whenever I have suggested about going over to see the horse my texts are ignored but I know they have been read as I have read and delivery reports on them. He seems to have more problems that he went with, has developed a back problem and lots of excuses.

How do I stand with removing him? When we had our yard we asked for a week up front and would refund any over payments if the horse went home beforehand. We never had a horse removed as the owner wasn't happy but I have to pay a month upfront and the payment is due today, so what do I do? Do I get him home asap and not pay (which feels wrong as I agreed to a month upfront) or do I just pay for this week and get him moved?

Thanks in advance for any replies.
 

Clannad48

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 February 2010
Messages
1,840
Location
Bedfordshire
Visit site
If you have concerns, even if they are only a 'gut' reaction, pay the money and remove your horse. The worst that can happen is that you have lost a month's money and your horse is fine and there was nothing wrong. You may end up feeling foolish but the other option is to continue worrying and there possibly being an issue.
 
Last edited:

JillA

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 May 2007
Messages
8,166
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
Go with your gut feeling and get him out - there have been numerous instances of things not being what they seem, and you could end up with a basket case of a horse ruined for life. Better safe than sorry
 

Stockers

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 October 2015
Messages
184
Visit site
I can see why you are worried. the lack of communication by producer can only lead you to assume the worst - even if that may not be the case.

I'd be inclined to go and get him today and not pay another penny. Did you have a written contract/agreement? Even so, I think if horse has developed a back issue I'd say that alone is reason to remove him to seek veterinary treatment?

Not a nice situation.
 

Annagain

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 December 2008
Messages
15,506
Visit site
I'd just turn up to see him (maybe with the trailer / lorry, make out you were just passing on the way home from delivering a horse for a friend or something like that) and take it from there.
 

The wife

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 August 2012
Messages
752
Location
It's a working progress
Visit site
No, no written contracts at all but then again we never did did either. Someone very close to me has suggested we use the phantom back issue as a reason to remove him. He was 100% straight and sound when we left him and although I appreciate horses can do harm themselves, after a load of excuses it does make me question it.

I think I will remove him asap. I always tell others to go with gut feeling but can't follow my own advice it appears...

And stockers yes it is the lack of communication. I asked to go and see him on Saturday but she was competing which is fair enough, I am not a fussy owner and not bothered about receiving an update every day unless there is a problem but it's the taking 48hours to reply to a text that was sent in an evening - I avoid day time text as appreciate the person is likely to be on the yard.
 

Red-1

I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
Joined
7 February 2013
Messages
17,814
Location
Outstanding in my field!
Visit site
I would go and fetch the horse, and say I had a change in circumstances and can't afford to continue the training right now.

If payment is due today I would call before going, and go today.

When he comes home, if he now has a back issue, I dare say you would turn away for a couple of weeks anyway.

Always trust a gut feeling.

Besides, it is not just a gut feeling, the horse is having problems, that he did not have before.
 

FfionWinnie

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 July 2012
Messages
17,021
Location
Scotland
Visit site
Just say you don't think they can get the best work from him due to this back issue so will be removing him now. Not replying to your messages (unless you are asking on a daily basis I suppose!) isn't acceptable. You shouldn't feel the need to ask, they should be keeping you in the loop I think.
 

madlady

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 October 2006
Messages
1,654
Visit site
I would have thought if he'd developed a back issue that they would have asked you to come get him anyway until back was sorted - how much schooling can they be doing if he has a problem with his back?

I'd go get him and bring him home.
 

be positive

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 July 2011
Messages
19,396
Visit site
I take in short term liveries for schooling/ sale etc and good communication is a key part of the deal, if something goes wrong then the owner MUST be kept in the loop, I would collect asap and not pay any money other than anything outstanding to date, they cannot expect a month in advance as it is a short term deal, they are not keeping you informed so are failing to keep to their side of any contract, the back injury is an easy excuse to use as they will be unable to do much with him any way.
 

molly7886

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 June 2008
Messages
301
Location
surrey
Visit site
Even the excuse for you not to go on saturday seems suspicious to me (I'm very cynical! ) surely even if she was out competing there would be someone on a professional yard doing the other horses that could allow you access to your own horse.
Personally I wouldn't make excuses I'd just collect- due to lack of communication and progress I'm taking my horse.
 

ihatework

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 September 2004
Messages
21,346
Visit site
If it's short term schooling then you usually pay a higher rate but only pay for the time they are there.
Go with your gut, collect the horse asap.
 

crabbymare

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 March 2006
Messages
2,910
Visit site
I would just say that you are going to collect as you want the back issue to be resolved before the horse is asked to do more. when you collect you can ask rider or if as I suspect they may be "out" the groom what exact point the horse is at so that you can tell the vet or physio when they come to see the horse. the groom will probably know nothing i.e. keep quiet about anythiny or everything but you may get more information from what you are not told than a nice story. I would tell them straight away as that gives you today to collect or tomorrow so a better possibility of seeing the horse being worked when you are there
 

Toby_Zaphod

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 August 2005
Messages
9,259
Location
Midlands
Visit site
Go, pay & take away!

If you have any misgivings about the situation remove your horse & you certainly have. If the yard doesn't respond to your texts & puts you off visiting giving various excuses plus the horse now has a back issue you've got to remove the horse.
 

Clare85

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 May 2011
Messages
1,909
Location
West Sussex
Visit site
Go and collect him today. If your gut is telling you something is amiss then listen to it. He's your horse, they should be happy for you to go and see him whenever you wish.
 

Exploding Chestnuts

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 June 2013
Messages
8,436
Visit site
I think you should just say you are coming over, and want to see the trainer, so he should be there, just say you feel you want him home and if they complain, tell them you will give them £45, in cash now, or a cheque, that would seem reasonable.
I really don't think they should get a months payment when their communication has been poor, and what if he is bggred, you will have to pay to sort that out.
Insist on the passport and all your tack/rugs etc.
 
Last edited:

3OldPonies

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 March 2013
Messages
1,599
Location
Berkshire
Visit site
Go and get him, pay anything you owe and don't look back. He's your horse and not someone else's to do what they please with, even if you are paying to have him schooled. At the very least, drop in for a visit when you're not expected if you can't arrange to get him back immediately, don't give them a chance to prepare for your visit. I would be extremely suspicious of what's been going on if this back issue has developed and they are carrying on with him and not being straight with you - they could be doing him all sorts of harm while possibly trying to cover up some sort of negligence on their part. Not only that, but you could even end up with massive vets bills and behaviour problems for years to come depending on exactly what has been going on without your knowledge.

Good luck and I hope your horse is OK when you do get to collect him.
 

Pinkvboots

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 August 2010
Messages
21,374
Location
Hertfordshire
Visit site
I would just turn up with the lorry and say you want to take him, that sort of behaviour would have me worried as well, when my horse was on schooling livery she text me everyday saying whatever he had done and even mailed me pictures of her riding.I hope everything goes okay.
 

OWLIE185

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 June 2005
Messages
3,535
Visit site
Trouble is there are so many chancers out there that portray themselves as being producers and trainers.
Do you know anyone else that has used them and what was the result?
Gut instincts are to be relied on.
Go up there and collect him straight away and get your vet to thoroughly check him out.
Good luck.
 

The wife

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 August 2012
Messages
752
Location
It's a working progress
Visit site
Horse is being collected tomorrow and placed with another trainer who I will sort to have any checks done that she needs, if she feels he needs them.

Feel relieved already about it. Thank you so much for all of your advice and help. I half knew what you guys would say but didnt really know how to go about it and the etiquette as never come across this before.
 

DD

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 August 2015
Messages
2,306
Location
Albion
Visit site
Yes I removed my youngster from schooling livery at very short notice. I visited the day before I removed him, quickly organised transport, then just turned up and opened his loosebox door and led him away. I kicked up a fuss and got a full refund too.So very glad I di collect him, dont want to go into details but I discovered that they were doing some cruel things to my horse which certainly were unnecessary.The place has a good reputation and I spent time there initially and thought all was ok. Will never send a horse away again.
Am pleased you are collecting your horse tomorrow and he will be in a safe place.
 
Last edited:

The wife

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 August 2012
Messages
752
Location
It's a working progress
Visit site
Yes I removed my youngster from schooling livery at very short notice. So very glad I did, dont want to go into details but I discovered that they were doing some cruel things to my horse which certainly were unnecessary.The place has a good reputation and I spent time there initially and thought all was ok. Will never send a horse away again.

We had this alot when we had a yard and it unfortunately gives really honest and genuine people who only want what is best for the horses a bad name. One of the reasons we quit was we had so many youngsters in who people had tried and made a bad job of that it just got disheartening to do (besides that and age catches up with you!)

I have no questions about the physical care given to this horse and I don't think for a second he has been mistreated - saying that I have yet to visit him so he may be a gibbering wreck when I collect tomorrow. Just my gut wasn't right with the situation.

He's going to a lovely lady who I know of through Facebook now who has evented to a high level. It's much further away than I wanted but think the place will suit him.
 

Redders

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 January 2011
Messages
2,136
Location
Cornwall
Visit site
Get him home. I know of a person near me who offers 'schooling livery' when all they do is put horse in field, doesn't check them for days and then jumps big jumps for a Facebook photo. To be fair I don't think they have anything other than their own at the moment, because people have got wise to their ways.

If your gut says it's not right, go with it. Good luck x
 

onemoretime

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 April 2008
Messages
2,440
Visit site
If you have concerns, even if they are only a 'gut' reaction, pay the money and remove your horse. The worst that can happen is that you have lost a month's money and your horse is fine and there was nothing wrong. You may end up feeling foolish but the other option is to continue worrying and there possibly being an issue.
^^^^ this, remove your horse. I was in a very similar situation about 12 years ago and was very glad that I removed my horse to a more suitable yard where the lady did a super job on her.
 
Top