Schoolmaster , nervous ot lunatic?

[Alli54]

Dear all,
We have just recently bought our second horse. Our goal was a schoolmaster to help our daughter with her younger horse.
First let me explain. Horse number one is 7 years old and trained by my daughter to completion level Z in the Netherlands(heavy work dressage). My daughter is 16. Both horse and rider are at there level and neither one knows what to do next...so enter the school master. After 1 year of searching we found we thought the perfect match. Same size as younger horse, 12 years old. Level was international inter 1 with winning results. After several visits and try outs we agreed to purchase this horse. The click was huge riding great...doing everything a schoolmaster should. Upon buying him we decided to keep him for 1 Month at his old owners (she was only owner)so she could teach my daughter all the tricks etc...all went fantastic...Until we moved him to our stall 3 weeks ago . 1st week horse had diareha and was nervous, riding good. 2nd we extremely nervous , wont walk on the hand without a chain starting to stand up...riding good..3rd week nervous and unridable doesn't allow my daughter even to saddle him. Reacting by standing on hind legs and kicking. Out of control. I feel like it's not the same horse we bought becoming dangerous is my feeling...do we give him time or send him back..can we fix this? So hard to understand as this horse won inter 1 in Germany a few month ago....it's like he has no manners or upbringing..help and any suggestions ..

 

[LEC]

Did you get the old rider/owners to write down their exact day to day routine and timetable for the horse? What it’s fed, when it’s worked, how it’s looked after?

It sounds to me that it was sending signals about being worried by the move but coped to a point and with more time it has tipped over the edge. Change is really hard on horses and not enough people look at the management and figure out if their situation will work for the horse. It’s now in completely different surroundings and probably being managed differently.

If it was mine I would take it all back to basics - match it on the food it used to have and look at the routine and give it some breathing space to settle and relax.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Will the previous owner come to your yard to support your daughter and the horse? That might help the horse to settle and the owner could see how your handling varies from what the horse is used to.

 

[Alli54]

Will the previous owner come to your yard to support your daughter and the horse? That might help the horse to settle and the owner could see how your handling varies from what the horse is used to.

That will be the next step...problem is at the moment our corona rules doesn't allow anyone from outside at our stall....we are going to try to lounge him the next few days and if we still can't saddle him we will ask for an exception that she can come .....funny thing is my daughter has lessons from old owner still at her stall and there is never a problem

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would a get the previous owners to help you out for a bit it might just take a while for him to settle, I would also have him checked for ulcers his obviously been under some stress with the move and that could be contributing to the bad behaviour and nervousness, a lot of horses develop ulcers when sold it can be a stressful time for some, my friends loan pony got them a few weeks after them picking her up, she had only ever lived at her breeders and her symptoms were very much like your horses are.

 

[AmyMay]

Does the horse get turned out?

 

[Alli54]

Did you get the old rider/owners to write down their exact day to day routine and timetable for the horse? What it’s fed, when it’s worked, how it’s looked after?

It sounds to me that it was sending signals about being worried by the move but coped to a point and with more time it has tipped over the edge. Change is really hard on horses and not enough people look at the management and figure out if their situation will work for the horse. It’s now in completely different surroundings and probably being managed differently.

If it was mine I would take it all back to basics - match it on the food it used to have and look at the routine and give it some breathing space to settle and relax.

Yes I agree, problem is facilities are so different old owner has a field and a riding area outdoor and 2 horses..our fields are closed for the winter so we have paddocks and stepping ring and also 2 giant indoor rings( around 80 horses stabled)...so instead of the fields in the morning he gets to walk and in the afternoon the paddock....we also try to let him free in the lounging circles..we have lowered his food (the pellets) as he no longer get needs to train at international level...also we moved him back to a single bit...as we thought to start him 1 level lower then my daughter's current level..Could the change of facility and schedule be causing this much trouble?

 

[Arzada]

Just to confirm. This is a 12 year old horse who has only ever known one owner?

 

[Alli54]

Does the horse get turned out?

Every morning he is in the walking ring...afternoon in the paddocks( he just stands there) then we arrive and do our thing ...riding or lounging grooming etc..everyday same routine for last 3 weeks...he is use to bring in the fields every morning for 2 to 3 hours...our fields are closed for the winter ..

 

[Alli54]

Just to confirm. This is a 12 year old horse who has only ever known one owner?

Yes ....but what I'm finding so strange...is how could this horse show in France and Germany with audiences and can't handle a new stall? So so strange

 

[laura_nash]

What forage is he on compared to the previous owner? I've known a switch from hay to haylage have a dramatic affect on some horses. Are the "pellets" the same ones that he had before as some horses can have extreme reactions to certain ingredients?

Was he turned out with company with the previous owner (sounds like he's not getting any now)? When he travelled to compete was there always another of the owner's horse's with him? If he was very attached to one of her other horses it could also explain the character change.

 

[Arzada]

Yes ....but what I'm finding so strange...is how could this horse show in France and Germany with audiences and can't handle a new stall? So so strange

It's not about the the new stall. At shows in France and Germany he would have had with him his usual personnel who he knew well and who knew him. He would also know that he was at a show and that as usual he would return home after the show. He's left his old yard and he hasn't returned home. Your horse does not know where he is, he is with people he doesn't know and who don't know him, his day bears no resemblance to his old day, his rider is different and largely unknown, his handlers are different and unknown, the food is different, the new yard is massive. In a nutshell his world is completely upside down.

 

[Alli54]

You are so right...can we fix it ? Will time be enough ?

 

[Kahlua]

Is it possible to move the horse back to your daughters trainers (and I think I understand correctly the old owner?) for a few months and work out a more suitable stable closer to you down the track? It definitely sounds like the new place is the problem. Too much of a big change for him, probably too busy and if he is a previous one owner, too many new people. Sounds like he is a lovely horse who is just not coping with this situation.

 

[Alli54]

What forage is he on compared to the previous owner? I've known a switch from hay to haylage have a dramatic affect on some horses. Are the "pellets" the same ones that he had before as some horses can have extreme reactions to certain ingredients?

Was he turned out with company with the previous owner (sounds like he's not getting any now)? When he travelled to compete was there always another of the owner's horse's with him? If he was very attached to one of her other horses it could also explain the character change.

We have him walking every morning and in the paddock every afternoon...then we ride or lunge him..make sure he is moving..he always stood alone at previous owner stall. Now he also stands alone but with horses in there own section so lots to see..owner was always with him on competition..she was his rider .

 

[Alli54]

Is it possible to move the horse back to your daughters trainers for a few months and work out a more suitable stable closer to you down the track? It definitely sounds like the new place is the problem. Too much of a big change for him, probably too busy and if he is a previous one owner, too many new people. Sounds like he is a lovely horse who is just not coping with this situation.

I'm afraid you might be right...moving him back is not an option as it's 1 hour away...and don't forget we also have other horse who is happy as can be...but something is going to happen if we can't solve it....trying a new stall might have to be new option..we will give it some more time first and try to make him a comfortable as possible

 

[Alli54]

Thanks everyone for your replies...it's helpful ...not one person said give him back..only thinking in solutions thanks

 

[oldie48]

Yes ....but what I'm finding so strange...is how could this horse show in France and Germany with audiences and can't handle a new stall? So so strange

Yes but when he's at a show he'd be with his rider and groom and doing something he's been doing most of his life. He has lost everything he knows and understands. It sounds as if your yard is very different to what he is used to so this might not be helping but he sounds very unhappy and worried. I would ask his previous owner for help and advice as I'm sure she would won't to do the best by him. Good luck.

 

[LEC]

Thanks everyone for your replies...it's helpful ...not one person said give him back..only thinking in solutions thanks

It’s a normal problem. I will have it next week.... I am moving 3 horses to a new home and I already know two won’t cope very well despite all moving together and the routine will be the same with the same people looking after them and same food. It will take them a good few weeks before they will settle so will expect them to be horrible to look after and ride for a few weeks.

 

[ester]

2 horses with field turnout to 80 horses with a walker/small paddocks and new owners is a massive change for a horse when the former is all he has known. Hopefully with a clear routine and more space and time he will improve.

 

[Kahlua]

I'm afraid you might be right...moving him back is not an option as it's 1 hour away...and don't forget we also have other horse who is happy as can be...but something is going to happen if we can't solve it....trying a new stall might have to be new option..we will give it some more time first and try to make him a comfortable as possible

Bit of a difficult situation for you! Of course things are hardly ever straight forward and simple when we have horses ? If it’s not possible to change his stables back, then maybe just speak with the old owner and ask if they have any suggestions. It’s really such a big change for him, but you don’t want any of these bad experiences to become bigger problems for him or your daughter.

 

[Alli54]

It’s a normal problem. I will have it next week.... I am moving 3 horses to a new home and I already know two won’t cope very well despite all moving together and the routine will be the same with the same people looking after them and same food. It will take them a good few weeks before they will settle so will expect them to be horrible to look after and ride for a few weeks.

Thank you...your problem makes me feel slightly better ?

 

[AUB]

Give him time.

I’ve several times written about my mare who developed seperation anxiety when we moved yards. Never had that before, but a yard move made it impossible to bring her in alone for the farrier or ju groom and saddle her. Riding was fine, but anything to do with bringing her to the stable required me to bring her best friend in with her. It’s only this year, two years after, that she’s relaxed when alone in the stable.

A horse that’s done international inter 1 will probably tend to be a bit on the sensitive side. He’s 3 weeks in at a new place with new routines and new people and it’s cold and he’s not getting the same amount of exercise as he has before. The diarrea is probably because he is super stressed atm.
If your daughter has ridden him for a month with old owner, you will know that it was not just a fluke that he was nice when tried. That nice schoolmaster is still in there. Give him time.

Do you have your trainer on site? Then maybe get them to ride the horse a few times or just a little bit before daughter gets on.

 

[Alli54]

Give him time.

I’ve several times written about my mare who developed seperation anxiety when we moved yards. Never had that before, but a yard move made it impossible to bring her in alone for the farrier or ju groom and saddle her. Riding was fine, but anything to do with bringing her to the stable required me to bring her best friend in with her. It’s only this year, two years after, that she’s relaxed when alone in the stable.

A horse that’s done international inter 1 will probably tend to be a bit on the sensitive side. He’s 3 weeks in at a new place with new routines and new people and it’s cold and he’s not getting the same amount of exercise as he has before. The diarrea is probably because he is super stressed atm.
If your daughter has ridden him for a month with old owner, you will know that it was not just a fluke that he was nice when tried. That nice schoolmaster is still in there. Give him time.

Do you have your trainer on site? Then maybe get them to ride the horse a few times or just a little bit before daughter gets on.

Thank you Kindly for your reply it help hearing with time and patience it will be okay. My daughter's trainer for this horse .... is the old owner. She is a certified trainer and grand prix rider ..trainings are great. We go to lessons once a week at his old stall and have 0 problems there. Only home is the problem...we will ask old owner to come to our stall to help but corona rules are stopping us at the moment ..thank you

 

[Leandy]

I'm sure all the answers above are correct and he should settle with time and turn back into the lovely schoolmaster you bought. Just in case though, if it were me and I had taken bloods at the vetting when I purchased him, I would have them analysed, just for my peace of mind given he has been perfect whilst at the seller's yard where he is under their management but not when moved. It is a bit curious that he is getting worse with you rather than being unsettled at first and then getting over it.

 

[GinaGeo]

The horse does sound very stressed by the move, new much bigger yard, strange people and a complete change in management. I know that a couple of my horses would find that very stressful indeed, both would show it differently but both would end up with gut issues.

As it sounds like he is getting worse rather than better, I'd perhaps question whether his stress has caused him to flare up with Ulcers? The diarrhoea would certainly link in with it.

It might be that good dose of prebiotics, making sure his forage suits him and that you've knocked hard feed on the head for a bit might help. If not, you might need to speak to a vet.

It is worth saying that not all yards suit all horses. Some horses would not cope with a yard like you explain, I own one of them.

 

[Nicnac]

OK your last post makes even more sense - so you are taking the horse back to his old home and owner once a week for lessons? No wonder he's not settling. Poor horse is mightily confused and not sure what's going on.

I would stop taking him to old owner's stables until he is much more settled in his new home. Give it a couple of months minimum.

 

[Alli54]

The horse does sound very stressed by the move, new much bigger yard, strange people and a complete change in management. I know that a couple of my horses would find that very stressful indeed, both would show it differently but both would end up with gut issues.

As it sounds like he is getting worse rather than better, I'd perhaps question whether his stress has caused him to flare up with Ulcers? The diarrhoea would certainly link in with it.

It might be that good dose of prebiotics, making sure his forage suits him and that you've knocked hard feed on the head for a bit might help. If not, you might need to speak to a vet.

It is worth saying that not all yards suit all horses. Some horses would not cope with a yard like you explain, I own one of them.

OK your last post makes even more sense - so you are taking the horse back to his old home and owner once a week for lessons? No wonder he's not settling. Poor horse is mightily confused and not sure what's going on.

I would stop taking him to old owner's stables until he is much more settled in his new home. Give it a couple of months minimum.

Yes !!! I think your right! A couple of things have happened in the last 2 days. We stopped riding him and only focusing on ground work and lunging...he is changing a little bit , walking on the hand and for the first time also he interacted with another horse. Also he started following my daughter around the paddock, giving nudges and is loving her touch . We didn't take him back for lessons this week. We decided best idea was to wait and have old owner come to our stall for lessons....got it approved finally ( covid wasn't allowing us to have outside people at stall) we are going slow with him and even gave him a lovely massage tonight. We have all the time to give him and don't want to give up so easily. A little o matter how small is still improvement everyday ...I hope we are on the right track!

 

[Alli54]

OK your last post makes even more sense - so you are taking the horse back to his old home and owner once a week for lessons? No wonder he's not settling. Poor horse is mightily confused and not sure what's going on.

I would stop taking him to old owner's stables until he is much more settled in his new home. Give it a couple of months minimum.

agreed 100% makes perfect sense !

 

[Arzada]

Yes !!! I think your right! A couple of things have happened in the last 2 days. We stopped riding him and only focusing on ground work and lunging...he is changing a little bit , walking on the hand and for the first time also he interacted with another horse. Also he started following my daughter around the paddock, giving nudges and is loving her touch . We didn't take him back for lessons this week. We decided best idea was to wait and have old owner come to our stall for lessons....got it approved finally ( covid wasn't allowing us to have outside people at stall) we are going slow with him and even gave him a lovely massage tonight. We have all the time to give him and don't want to give up so easily. A little o matter how small is still improvement everyday ...I hope we are on the right track!

Lovely update OP.