Schoolmaster

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PandorasJar

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What's your definition?

I've just seen an ad for a schoolmaster who is being sold as the owner is over horsed (sorry if it's your ad!)

My definition would be very knowledgable horse who can turn his hoof to anything, but only with correct aids. However I would expect it to behave at the level required, ie if a novice is on board it will ride basics with no hassle, someone of a higher level could get what they want out of it. I don't think a schoolmaster should ever be able to over-horse someone.

Pan
 
When I hear the phrase 'schoolmaster', I immediately think of a horse who has competed at a decent level, knows his job inside out, and is rideable for a person who wants to learn what he has to teach. I wouldn't expect a schoolmaster to take a novice rider - because horses who have had a successful competitive career are rarely suitable for inexperienced riders, even if they are generally safe to ride.

Mine is a classic 'schoolmaster'. He's competed at Inter 1, knows all the GP movements, and is very rideable (on the odd occasion that he's sound!).

Would I put a novice rider on him? Not a chance. He has a job in life, he knows exactly what that job is, and he's very happy doing it. He's well mannered, but sharp and sensitive - and a rider who wasn't balanced and relatively educated would upset him horribly. He's also a big, powerful, forward going horse, and although I think of him as perfectly safe, he could be quite intimidating to someone inexperienced.
 
Sorry, don't agree: a schoolmaster should be able to perform as required, and as the rider is capable of asking, which means a novice rider would probably not be able to ride a high-level schoolmaster unless under instruction. My old PSG schoolmaster would do everything politely if asked correctly; if badly ridden he'd just toss you off = PERFECT schoolmaster/no good novice ride.
 
I think a horse can be a schoolmaster without being an 'easy' ride; that is to say a horse that has competed at say high level dressage and will do all the moves when you ask the right question, but you wouldn't put a novice on board.

I think the term 'schoolmaster' and 'novice's ride' get confused and are very different things. You could have a 'novice schoolmaster' in other words a very safe quiet ride. So in a nutshell to me it depends what it's a schoolmaster of!
 
Cortez said:
Sorry, don't agree: a schoolmaster should be able to perform as required, and as the rider is capable of asking, which means a novice rider would probably not be able to ride a high-level schoolmaster unless under instruction. My old PSG schoolmaster would do everything politely if asked correctly; if badly ridden he'd just toss you off = PERFECT schoolmaster/no good novice ride.
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^ This we cross posted :D
 
I think someone can be overhorsed by a schoolmaster, a 4* event horse would be a potential schoolmaster for a competent teen that wants to event but would be too much for someone that is just learning to jump, the same with dressage horses, many highly schooled horses will respond to a very subtle movement from the rider which if ridden by a novice who struggled to be completely still unless giving an aid could result in airs above the ground.

I have a schoolmaster at livery, he now events at lower levels with his young rider but would take the p**s out of a novice, or would drop them on the landing side of a fence, he was advertised as a schoolmaster when purchased and is teaching his rider very well how he wants her to ride him;)
 
We had a horse at work that was a genuine and lovely schoolmaster who knew who was on Top and behaved accordingly.
He was.at least 17.3 hh but taught beginners to trot, but would work beautifully for a better rider, half pass, changes etc.
Jumping wise he would come into a 1ft crosspole the same as a 1m oxer. The naughtiness in his behaviour was hacking with staff on him, when he took beginners he was a saint, when we hacked him, he would want to canter everywhere and if you asked for trot you would get bounce.
I would class him as a complete schoolmaster, completely bombproof
 
Depends really, the two schoolmasters I know best of all are worlds apart.
First is mine, 14.2 & pretty much been there done that. She'll nanny a novice 7yr old round a 3' course with washing line reins, & try & guess what their aids mean. Put a competent kid or teen on & she's very exacting as to how they ask, & did well competing with me in her younger days. Anyone can ride her really, she adjusts to the rider, from experienced adult to tiny beginner kid.
The other was a psg schoolmaster. Basically you asked perfectly, you got it. He was also a nutter, who would have murdered a novice, or anyone lacking confidence. Hacking he was good with traffic, but even his quieter days he wasn't a horse you took your concentration off. And was a dominant sod to handle. He basically stood out as a head case on a yard of highly bred comp horses. But, for learning excellent flatwork, he was a star.
 
You are right.

I bought a dressage schoolmaster in 2004 after the loss of my horse.

I was riding at medium and had a fantastic relationship with the RID horse I lost. I had him as a foal, reared/broke him and schooled him with help, myself. Lost him at 13 and I had not ridden anything else other than a hunter I also owned for over 20 years. The RID adapted to my level of riding and we had great fun and some success.

I set out to find something working at a similar level and suitable for a rather nervous rider. I found a super Selle Francias gelding aged 10, very established and in a professional yard. Two tries on him including a lesson, loved him and home he came. Buying from a professional yard and trained by a professional was the first of many mistakes I made with this horse.

He was a true schoolmaster -----IF you knew how to ride him. Within weeks it became very apparent I didn't. He had buttons a plenty, sadly I pushed the wrong ones most of the time. His quarters had a life of their own and I got totally fed up of lessons that consisted mainly of 'quarters leading/trialling'
half halts not required and unexpected changes. All because my ample backside had wobbled un-voluntarily. God forbid if the top half wobbled, I ended up in half pass depending on which boob had wobbled.

It made me realise I never truely rode my RID, I just thought what I wanted and it happened and had anyone else had the chance to ride the RID he would not have done a tap for them because they would not find his buttons.

I remember my first test on the new horse, trot down longside turn left. The horse kept his best trot and trotted straight out of the arena, I was furious but knew full well I had not asked the horse to turn left, I just expected him to as I used to with the RID ! We had some very interesting times and it became obvious the horse needed asking correctly for everything. Ask properly and he gave properly so he really was a true schoolmaster.

He won loads over the years but I let someone else ride him, my riding and balance was never refined enough for him. Still got him, injured, retired and much loved.
 
A competition schoolmaster is not always a novice ride. In the case of an eventing schoolmaster, it is quite likely to be quick and bold XC, which might result in a slightly nervous rider feeling over-horsed even if the horse was doing its job properly.

However, I think I have seen the ad you refer to, and wonder whether there is more to it than meets the eye, as was being advertised a few months ago, with the reason being "due to exam commitments"!
 
AdorableAlice said:
You are right.

I bought a dressage schoolmaster in 2004 after the loss of my horse.

I was riding at medium and had a fantastic relationship with the RID horse I lost. I had him as a foal, reared/broke him and schooled him with help, myself. Lost him at 13 and I had not ridden anything else other than a hunter I also owned for over 20 years. The RID adapted to my level of riding and we had great fun and some success.

I set out to find something working at a similar level and suitable for a rather nervous rider. I found a super Selle Francias gelding aged 10, very established and in a professional yard. Two tries on him including a lesson, loved him and home he came. Buying from a professional yard and trained by a professional was the first of many mistakes I made with this horse.

He was a true schoolmaster -----IF you knew how to ride him. Within weeks it became very apparent I didn't. He had buttons a plenty, sadly I pushed the wrong ones most of the time. His quarters had a life of their own and I got totally fed up of lessons that consisted mainly of 'quarters leading/trialling'
half halts not required and unexpected changes. All because my ample backside had wobbled un-voluntarily. God forbid if the top half wobbled, I ended up in half pass depending on which boob had wobbled.

It made me realise I never truely rode my RID, I just thought what I wanted and it happened and had anyone else had the chance to ride the RID he would not have done a tap for them because they would not find his buttons.

I remember my first test on the new horse, trot down longside turn left. The horse kept his best trot and trotted straight out of the arena, I was furious but knew full well I had not asked the horse to turn left, I just expected him to as I used to with the RID ! We had some very interesting times and it became obvious the horse needed asking correctly for everything. Ask properly and he gave properly so he really was a true schoolmaster.

He won loads over the years but I let someone else ride him, my riding and balance was never refined enough for him. Still got him, injured, retired and much loved.
Click to expand...
This is an excellent post that reveals the dangers of the Schoolmaster very, very well. I think that schoolmasters are best left with professional instructors that can make best use of their talents by means of lessons, and keep them "topped up" in the training department. Training does wear off, you know.
 
I suppose really it comes down to what's written before 'schoolmaster'. Eg 12.2 pc schoolmaster, & 4* eventing schoolmaster would be miles apart. Really its what they're masters of, whether that's top level competition or lr pony, & everything inbetween.
 
Cortez said:
This is an excellent post that reveals the dangers of the Schoolmaster very, very well. I think that schoolmasters are best left with professional instructors that can make best use of their talents by means of lessons, and keep them "topped up" in the training department. Training does wear off, you know.
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Thank you. We are not professionals but the friend that rode him had twice weekly lessons and as the pictures show, sits on a horse rather well. Same horse in both pictures. He was an awesome schoolmaster but not a novice ride even though he would not dream of bucking or doing anything remotely rude. I think people get confused between schoolmaster and novice ride.
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i totally agree with everyone in the fact that a horse is a schoolmaster doesnot automatically mean its safe for anyone to ride! ive had 2 professionally produced horses who are total schoolmasters but i would NOT put a novice on them. one could do dressage to advanced and had evented to prelim and my new one was evented by a pro and used to teach working pupils to event -hes a total dream of a horse for me, never says no and is bold and accurate,but i would never put a novice on him. it seems the meaning of the word "schoolmaster" means something different to everyone!:rolleyes:
 
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