Scottish stud sell off...?

[Anon2]

Has anyone really thought about the fact that it should have been and was THE OWNERS responsibility to have these horses passports in the 1st place, none of the horses are foals or were under 4 year old hence the passports should have been with the owners. Obviously they were not so technically they have commited an offence. I am sure that the authorities did everything in their power to locate these passports which have been missing for some time.

I am also NOT hearing any confirmation that anyone has actually got a horse with 2 microchips (which i doubted in the first place), as a vet would not chip an already chipped horse again. Scanners DO read all chips (foreign or not).

On the issue of the elderly horses, I agree it is horrible that they had to go through this sale but hey what was the option - leave them at the stud to lose weight and condition over another winter - i think not. I have it on good authority that the owners were being advised since last spring to sell or cut down the amount of horses over the summer - but did they do anything - NO. I also know that they were not banned from touching the horses and if it was your horse, would you not have put the elderly ones to sleep before all this. Its all very good to blame everyone else but take on your own responsibilities.

On the last point the horses had water up until people came to mart for viewing and the sale was over by lunchtime, if water HAD been put in stalls, I bet people would then be complaining that the horses were standing in wet bedding. I think the mart and other organisations involved did the best for these horses that they could in the situation. As someone else said they are better of being sold (even if it was to the meat man) than standing in a field with no grazing or feeding as has happened. As it turns out they are very fortunate to have found new homes which i am sure delights everyone involved.

To iterate my main point "What is best for the horses?". To be sold through a well organised sale? or to be left and taken out as welfare cases at a later date.....

And i - like SMID will not be sitting here replying to nonsense replies from people who were not at or have the details of the actual facts.

 

[Mithras]

No-one likes this sort of situation occurring. But in view of the large scale involved, was it not the best way of dealing with it? All the horses involved seem to have been rehomed, probably satisfactorally. What would have been better? To have let the situation deteriorate until it became a notorious welfare case? We are talking about Aberdeenshire going into winter, not a mild climate, but the north of Scotland. Can you imagine what would have happened if the reciever had not acted going into winter but had waited until the spring???

I was not present at the sale, though I wish I had been as there might have been something worth buying. However I do know someone who was made bankrupt and was permitted to keep all his horses plus the land on which they grazed. He successfully pleaded that the horses were too old and unsound to sell (which wasn't true, as one of them was my old pony, not old at that stage!). That was more than 10 years ago, and he still has them to this day, and they are well looked after and happy. However he was not running a commercial business and the reciever in that case obviously decided that was the best outcome. In such cases, the receiver has discretion to act in what he/she sees is the best interests of the case, taking all factors into account.

I find it overly emotive to suggest that horses cannot be taken to a sale. Given, for the older ones it is a shame. But the others can cope with it. To suggest otherwise would be akin to suggesting it is cruel to ever sell a horse, move yards, take it to a show, etc..

I can't see anything which suggests that this unfortunate situation was handled in a satisfactory way.

The passports are another issue. I'm not a fan of the passport legislation anyway.

 

[snoopmummy]

I WAS there, and although the sale was over by lunchtime many of the horses were not collected till much later and were still left standing with no water. I'm also aware that there was information on health issues for some of the horses which was witheld.And when animals are sold without being brought into the ring how can anyone see if there is any lameness? I know they were stallions and safety had to be an issue, but surely that's wrong.
I was also there when the youngster who had been so sedated due to stress almost asphyxiated herself with her neck over the bar. We were the ones who managed to sort that out.
As regards those who reckoned this was no different from the average horse sale,I feel there is a difference between a sale comprising horses/ponies individually entered, as opposed to a whole group suddenly removed from their environment.

 

[magic104]

No-one likes this sort of situation occurring. But in view of the large scale involved, was it not the best way of dealing with it? All the horses involved seem to have been rehomed, probably satisfactorally. What would have been better? To have let the situation deteriorate until it became a notorious welfare case? We are talking about Aberdeenshire going into winter, not a mild climate, but the north of Scotland. Can you imagine what would have happened if the reciever had not acted going into winter but had waited until the spring??? - No one has stated there was a problem with the sale as such. The issue lays with selling 30yo ponies, & if it could not have been done from the farm. There are plenty of questions, another one being why if there was an issue earlier in the year the horses were not advertised & private sales sought? I ask this because it is quiet rare to achieve a higher price via an auction, well this type of sale anyway. Yes the receivers have to get the best possible price but surely this has been going on for months, therefore horses could of been sold long before now.

I was not present at the sale, though I wish I had been as there might have been something worth buying. However I do know someone who was made bankrupt and was permitted to keep all his horses plus the land on which they grazed. He

I find it overly emotive to suggest that horses cannot be taken to a sale. Given, for the older ones it is a shame. But the others can cope with it. To suggest otherwise would be akin to suggesting it is cruel to ever sell a horse, move yards, take it to a show, etc..

I can't see anything which suggests that this unfortunate situation was handled in a satisfactory way. - No it does not sound as if it was satisfactory you are correct there.

The passports are another issue. I'm not a fan of the passport legislation anyway - Perhaps but they are here & we have to work with them.

 

[Ciss]

[ QUOTE ]
On the passports - yes, the system is lax, loose, open to misuse, not thought through, easy to manipulate and lots of other things. It's been like that since it was introduced. But in this case there were dicrepancies between the schedule and the horses reported ages, and there were passport issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

An interesting statement as it does imply that those issuing the passports knew that there were issues regarding some of them. But if they did do this knowing that and some of the passports were duplicates then claiming that there are faults in the system that monitors this is no defence in law (but perhaps expresses a worrying attitude that we know that some ID-only PIOs have that it is all right to do it as long as you don't get caught <sigh> and the lack of extra funding for the TSOs means that the risk is worth taking).

[ QUOTE ]
But take a reality check please - there was compliance with the law as far as was possible, this is a liquidation and the receivers are not equesterian specialists, the mart is primarily for agricultural animals and probably the lead auctioneer (in common with many horse owners themselves!) may be unclear about the detail regulations surounding passports.

[/ QUOTE ]

A debateble point, especially as the legislation in effect since 1 July this year specifically identifies the validity of passports issued by recognised PIOs in other member states and the Defra rules for PIOs for efficient operation requires them that where there is any evidence of an exisiting passport (eg reg nos, UELNs, microchips, numbered brands) the PIO asked to issue another passport must check with the original issuing body concerned as to the validity and last known whereabouts of that passport. IOW even if the passports are with a studbook in another country awaiting updating (for whatever reason) then those passports are valid and must not be duplicated. A specialist animal auctioneer is expected to be aware of all the current legislation in areas such as this and specifically they -- and the PIO issuing the passports -- will be aware that ignorance of the law is no defence. So although 'compliance with the law as far as possible' is presumably meant as a reason why passports (possibly duplicate) were issued to so many of the animals so near to the date of the sale -- as after all no equine can be moved or offered for sale without a passport and that was one way of making sure that the passport legislation at least appeared to have been complied with -- this again is surely an inadequate defence, especially as the passport legislation was specifically franed to stop this happening. The problems caused by this (now admitted) partial compliance is what is really worrying many of the people on this forum as they know that only complete compliance makes the issuing of duplicate passports (for whatever reason) impossible within any section of the law.

[ QUOTE ]
All that I have been trying to articulate, obviously badly since it's not being heard, is that there are many aspects of this whole situation that are less than ideal, and these were inherited by the team responsible for the sale. I know these people individually, and they were doing the best they could with what they had.

SSPCA are not equestrian specialists so passport issues would probably be lost on them, there was a equestrian vet in attendance - and this is generally not the case in regular horse and pony sales.

[/ QUOTE ]

There were a large number of workshops nationwide -- including ones specifically for animal charities and vets -- to explain the working of the revised legislation so again their ignorance is no defence.

[ QUOTE ]
So - please step off your soapbox before you make further indiscrete accusations. A public forum like this is not the place to make allegations of misconduct!

[/ QUOTE ]

No allegations of misconduct on my part. I am just highlighting the legislation and the that are offences committed when specific points of it are broken. I have never said that they were broken in the case of this sale, just that X would apply if Y section of the law was infringed. I do hope that nothing untoward did happen leading up to and during the sale but those concerned must already be aware of the consequences if anything did happen as I know that the passport section of DEFRA will have made both the PIO and the auctioneers concerned aware many times of all of this both before and since 1 July.

 

[Alec Swan]

To quote the inimitable, and horrible, Michael Winner, "Calm Down Dear"! I have, I must admit, only picked up on this since the initial offerings were struck off.

Whilst I may well have locked horns with some of you in the past, I would, none the less, applaud all of you for your level of care. You may well have squabbled, a trifle, but the intention I am certain was the same, that the right thing be done by the animal.

I would have but one small offering, and it's this, "Who, in their right minds would offer a 30 year old horse through a sale ring? Better the hunt kennels, surely"

Alec.

 

[wendyII]

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone really thought about the fact that it should have been and was THE OWNERS responsibility to have these horses passports in the 1st place, none of the horses are foals or were under 4 year old hence the passports should have been with the owners. Obviously they were not so technically they have commited an offence. I am sure that the authorities did everything in their power to locate these passports which have been missing for some time.

I am also NOT hearing any confirmation that anyone has actually got a horse with 2 microchips (which i doubted in the first place), as a vet would not chip an already chipped horse again. Scanners DO read all chips (foreign or not).

[/ QUOTE ]

Local I feel you have made some valuable comments which does cast a different perspective on this affair and I can only hope that the accusations made on this forum by its members are proven to be factual and not based on information being drip fed to support an alterior motive.

It has been noted that a number of the horses had UELN numbers, so ask is this is sufficient evidence that passports had been previously ISSUED? Judging by what has been reported they were evidently not in the owners nor the Trustees possession at the time passport applications were made. The horses have been in the care of the trustees for many months prior to the sale providing ample time for both the stud and the Trustees to resolve the passport issues.

It has been stated some of the horses did not have breed society passports some of which were four years old, and a number of persons have reported that these horses were sold with basic ID passports, despite some valuable breeding history being known. The report on H&C claims that a number of the animals were "Graded" but that the breed society has yet to receive any documentation from the stud. Some drew the conclusion as I first did prior to the press release, that these animals had therefore been passported previously with the breed society in question but it has now been revealed that this is not the case.
Therefore one does have to ask why so much laxity surrounds the correct registration of the animals in the first instance. It does indeed seem that the Trustees inherited a great deal of abnomalities, not that this is an excuse for choosing not to rectify the situation. However it was most defintely the Studs responsibility first and forremost to have their horses correctly documented as this their legal obligation and no excuse can be made for a four year old not having a passport, even if difficulties arose with registering the horse with a Breed society the horses should at least have had a passport by the age of four.

It is my undertsanding that some of the horses were sold with their original breed society passports, some have been sold with id passports that did not have any previous passport issued and a few have been claimed as having been issued with id passports when Bred Society passports had been previously issued, so ask how many? and for which horses / ponies? Not that I wish to undermine the severity of the offense (if indeed any offense has been committed) as even ONE secondary passport application made when it was known that a previous passport was in existance is already one too many and exposes failure in the system but I would like to know the FACTS regarding these allegations.

I too feel very strongly that if the allegations made on this forum are true they should not be brushed aside lightly, passport fraud is a serious offense and could have detrimental affects to all horse owners as the system has been put in place to protect the fair trade of horses and prevent animals from entering the food chain if previously adminstered harmful drugs

However like Local, I am awaiting confirmation that the allegations made against the Trustees are FACTUAL. If it turns out as heresay, anyone that has contributed to those allegations publicly could be opening themselves to litigation. The same can be said about accusations made against the vets involved, claims have been made that horses were issued with second microchips. I still have not been able to establish if this is an offense? nor, like Local, been able to establish which horses/ponies were actually administered with a second microchip if asny at all?

I am assuming that the press office of H&H will be speaking with all parties involved, including the PIO's that "allegedly" issued the initial passports, the vets that adminstered the "second" microchips, the Trustees and the Stud, prior to publishing an article regarding the sale in order that the truth be established and that any crimes IF any will be investigated.

 

[wendyII]

@ Ciss you make repeated reference to "Duplicate" passports, correct me if I'm wrong but a Duplicate is a copy of an existing document and from what I undertstand PIO's can issue Duplicate passports when the existing passport has been lost, one of our hunters has "Duplicate" stamped on every page of his passport. To state that providing a "Duplicate" passport is an offense is IMO misleading.
The allegations made in this discussion are that secondary passports were issued by a secondary PIO when it was known to the applicant that a passport was already in existance or have I got it all wrong??
It is my undertsanding that when an application is submitted to a PIO it is the applicant that signs the declaration that in the best of his/her knowledge no previous passport application has been made, or something along those lines.
I assume therefore under these circumstances that the PIO cannot be held responsible for issuing a passport UNLESS additional information such as a UELN is provided on the passport application??
In which case it would be very worrying indeed that the PIO did not follow up their own investigations as to whether a passport had indeed been previously issued.
If the PIO involved had issued a passport willingly, knowing that a passport had already been issued then they would be breaking the law, so I seriously hope that this is not the case and trust that DEFRA's enquiry will be able to reveal the facts behind this event.

 

[Ciss]

[ QUOTE ]
Ciss you make repeated reference to "Duplicate" passports, correct me if I'm wrong but a Duplicate is a copy of an existing document and from what I undertstand PIO's can issue Duplicate passports when the existing passport has been lost, one of our hunters has "Duplicate" stamped on every page of his passport. To state that providing a "Duplicate" passport is an offense is IMO misleading.

[/ QUOTE ]

That sort of duplicate passport is of course allowable (and I don't think anyone here is likely to be confusing the two). Also you will find in your duplicate passport that section X has been marked 'not for human consumption' even if you (or a previous owner) had not designated it as such. This is done becuase the medicinal career of any animal with a duplicate passport cannot be closely accounted for so legislation requires that duplicates issued in this way (ie by the original issuing PIO as a replacement for a document that has been proven lost, destroyed etc) have Section X marked in this way.

[ QUOTE ]
The allegations made in this discussion

[/ QUOTE ]

I must point out that I have made no allegations, and have just pointed out where the irregularities that others have contended have occured would be infringements upon the legislation currently in force if they are proven to have occurred.

[ QUOTE ]
are that secondary passports were issued by a secondary PIO when it was known to the applicant that a passport was already in existance or have I got it all wrong??

[/ QUOTE ].

That is correct, but using the word secondary in reference to the passport is not the usual phraseology or term used by either PIOs or DEFRA for such documentst, whereas 'duplicate' is.

[ QUOTE ]
It is my understanding that when an application is submitted to a PIO it is the applicant that signs the declaration that in the best of his/her knowledge no previous passport application has been made, or something along those lines.
I assume therefore under these circumstances that the PIO cannot be held responsible for issuing a passport UNLESS additional information such as a UELN is provided on the passport application??

[/ QUOTE ]

Not entirely, as especially if there are triggers that indicate that a passport exists (as I said in a earlier post these include UELNs being quoted in related documents, microchips already being in place, brands being evident etc) then if operating efficiently the PIO must make sure that they confirm that no existing passport exists. Also, as the offence is not only issuing a duplicate passport but also issuing a duplicate unique life number (since 1 July no horse is allowed to have two if the second one is knowlingly issued after 1 July 2009, in the same way as it is an offence since the same date to insert a second microchip when one is already scanned in place) then the existence of a UELN number is in itself regarded as indicative that the responsibility for the registration process and the issuing of the passport is the responsibility of the PIO that issued that UELN, regardless of the location of the member state in which that PIO is based.

[ QUOTE ]
In which case it would be very worrying indeed that the PIO did not follow up their own investigations as to whether a passport had indeed been previously issued.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree.

[ QUOTE ]
If the PIO involved had issued a passport willingly, knowing that a passport had already been issued then they would be breaking the law, so I seriously hope that this is not the case and trust that DEFRA's enquiry will be able to reveal the facts behind this event.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that is what we all hope that DEFRA's investigations will reveal. Sadly, it has happened before, but not -- to my knowledge -- on this scale since the new legislation was introduced, but time will tell.

 

[wendyII]

[ QUOTE ]
That sort of duplicate passport is of course allowable (and I don't think anyone here is likely to be confusing the two). Also you will find in your duplicate passport that section X has been marked 'not for human consumption' even if you (or a previous owner) had not designated it as such. This is done becuase the medicinal career of any animal with a duplicate passport cannot be closely accounted for so legislation requires that duplicates issued in this way (ie by the original issuing PIO as a replacement for a document that has been proven lost, destroyed etc) have Section X marked in this way.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thats good to know,will have a look tomorow, still think the term duplicate is misleading though.

[ QUOTE ]
Not entirely, as especially if there are triggers that indicate that a passport exists (as I said in a earlier post these include UELNs being quoted in related documents, microchips already being in place, brands being evident etc

[/ QUOTE ]

Older foreign horses branded may not have been issued with a passport, that could be one explantion I guess, as Passports have only been brought in since when 2001? can't remember. If branded after that then yes we would expect a passport to having been issued. We have an older Grade A mare branded mare that was purchased without a passport many moons ago, and we had to apply to the KWPN when the passport legislation came into effect for a breed society passport the only documents we had for her was her breeding papers.

The main question remains for the time being, were any of the horses actually sold with new passports which were actually in posession of any of the latter. This is the only concern that I have in this affair as it raises questions into the whole passporting system. I guess there will always be people who go out of there way to commit fraud for their own benefit and no system is infalable so am really hoping for everyones sake that none of the offenses took place and that most of what has been said is speculation.

 

[sywell]

The problem of ID only PIOs issueing passports to horses that already have passports must be stopped and is quite clearly covered by the legislation. It is to stop horses at livery or stolen getting new passports and being sold. I checked the German National Database and it records one passport as having been issued and the name of the last recorded owner in the UK. All the people concerned will have liability under the legislation from the keeper, to the person who falsely applied for a new passport having most likely signed on the application that the horse had no passport.

 

[sywell]

Hopefully there will be reprecussions on the contravention of the Horse Passport Order legislation for the keeper,owner and passport issuer for horses that had second passports issued. It is clear that if a horse is quoted as having a UELN no ID organisation should issue a passport as there are indications that it already had a passport and all horses with German UELN born since 2000 will have passports with Section IX. The keeper is responsible to see the horse has a passport and do the liquidators become the owners during a bankruptcy? A PIO is responsible to check that a horse does not have a passport it may not be on NED but the UELN would indicate its PIO and this is an EU regulation not a UK one and the PIO should check.

 

[tweedette]

Hi, all, I went to the sale, the welsh stallion brought £200 , I had a look at him as I used to own Halwyn, and remember the mare being brought to him, she belonged to a friend of ours Mr and Mrs Pygott, from Wakefield. He was very similar to his sire an old fashioned sort of welsh, but he was in fairly good condition.

I was told the sale happened becuase the owner - a forner lottery winner - had gone bankrupt. The auctioneers were only told the previous friday that the sale was going ahead. I did buy a horse with a spurious passport, so it would be good to hear from others who did the same, plus what they are doing about it. I contacted the oldenburg rep in england, gave her to horses breeding, as i know he was inspected last year, just the paperwork had never been paid for but shes looking into it, my thoughts are if I have to pay for the papers its no big deal the horse was cheap enough, still if a number of us could prove its the trustees who should pay to reinstate the horses to how they were advertised, then lets go for it.

 

[Ciss]

[ QUOTE ]
. I did buy a horse with a spurious passport, so it would be good to hear from others who did the same, plus what they are doing about it. I contacted the oldenburg rep in england, gave her to horses breeding, as i know he was inspected last year, just the paperwork had never been paid for but shes looking into it,

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly the right thing to do -- contact the studbook PIO (or the studbook PIO's UK rep if the studbook is based abroad) and ask them to help you sort it out. I have put a number of people in touch with the Oldenburg rep already (PM me for her contact details if this is your situation and you didn't know what to do until now) and one or two are also due to be sorted out by WBSUK so we are getting their slowly.

[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts are if I have to pay for the papers its no big deal the horse was cheap enough, still if a number of us could prove its the trustees who should pay to reinstate the horses to how they were advertised, then lets go for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree and the more evidence we can get together the better it will be, especioally as yesterday -- when this whole issue was discussed at a major inter-breed society meeting -- I heard someoen who has had several encounters with such operations (not in realtion to their own property of course) describe Receivers as 'always thinking themselves above the law' :-(.

Let's show them that as far as passport law and animal welfare they are certainly not.

BTW, I have been in touch with DEFRA and they are 'investingating'. I have decided to wait until Friday and then pursue them as a matter of urgency to find out what the outcome of their preliminary investigations are. This is mainly becuase many studbook PIOs are concerned that such apparent flouting of the regulations must mean that the ID-only PIO concerned -- and its vets and agents --are not 'operating efficiently' which is the phrase used to identify the criteria by which DEFRA monitors the performance of all PIOs, both stud book and ID-only.

 

[tweedette]

The thing is , you would see a horse with a painted 7 on it have a 11 auction number, how do we really know what we have bought until the true paperwork comes through with all the horses markings and true age?. I too contacted defra and left a message but did speak to the passport people, who kindly gave me the contact name for the defra man he is simon elliot 0207 2384422. The oldenburg rep in england is louis allard 0152 524 0094, I have rang twice now leaving a message the second time, asking what the situation is with the society,.
The passport people did say that it was illegal to issue a second passport , and it could bring about a fine of 5k per horse, hope the trustees appreciate this , as it could pose a costly rushed exercise.

 

[bombproof]

Things just seem to get worse.Having read the posts of a horrendous situation for the past owners , new owners and officials one of the worst things we all seem to have forgotten about is the horses . In care of the SSPCA - trustees ? A joke ! I have been informed that one of the horses had live maggots on it , unbelievable but true . How could vets ,
DEFRA etc allow an animal in this condition to be passed as fit for sale ??

Impossible to imagine what this horse was going through for a number of months in the care of our supposed Scottish rescue society . Why were the ILPH not requested to help here ? The have far more experience of horses and how they should be handled and cared for - The SSPCA were obviously well out of thier depth .

 

[auchenblae]

[ QUOTE ]
The auctioneers were only told the previous friday that the sale was going ahead

[/ QUOTE ]

This is inaccurate. I have been reliably informed that the auctioneers were trying to get passports several weeks before the sale (this came from the auctioneer himself), so they had been involved for some time.

 

[tweedette]

True, they said they had been aware of the horses for some months and last winter the SSPCA were brought in, but the auctioneer said , although they had been aware of the horses they were not issued with instructions to sell them until the friday preceeding the sale - I'm only passing on what Iwas told.
One of the ponies was scouring quite badly, and the poor exmoor which made £20 was hyperventilating all during viewing and the sale, I did point this out to the sspca who was chatting with pals, who told me she already knew, the thing I was concerned with was that this kind of stress can bring on travel tetany, so lets hope all the animals got home safely.

 

[delphie468]

tweedette if the horses passport hadn't been paid for nor the passport issued then technically the passport that was paid and processed start to finish would have been the horses first passport, did the receivers have a legal obligation to complete the initial unpaid for passport application???

 

[tweedette]

Thats what the passport agency and DEFRA(rang him yesterday - left a message) are looking into, plus I'm waiting to hear from the oldenburg uk rep(rang her yesterday - left a message) to see if I pay can I get my horse's oldenburg papers released in my own name?

Until I hear something concrete from either, I dont know whats going on, but, if I do manage to get the original papers from germany then its casts doubt on the validity and aquisition of the passport obtained by the trustees which I was given wihen I bought the horse.

A real can of worms, still the more who get involved the better, to me the trustees were way out of line, had very little knowledge of the value nor true welfare or future of the goods - in this case horses and ponies) they were instucting to be sold, a sad day indeed.

On a better note, the horse we bought is doing really well, putting condition on nicely, accepting work , had its teeth done plus some shoes on , I'm well pleased.

 

[Ciss]

[ QUOTE ]
tweedette if the horses passport hadn't been paid for nor the passport issued then technically the passport that was paid and processed start to finish would have been the horses first passport, did the receivers have a legal obligation to complete the initial unpaid for passport application???

[/ QUOTE ]

To clarify:
Whilst there is no requirement by DEFRA for UK ID-only PIOs to check with studbook PIOs that a passport has not been issued by any of them for a horse (even a mature horse, not just a foal) :-( this does not mean that the following regulations might not almost certainly be broached when such a 'duplicate' passport is issued:

(i) the requirement that no horse as more than one UELN, so that any UELN issued before 1 July 2009 will always be the legal one that must not be replaced by any other one issued later than 1 July 2009, regardless of whether the 'original' passport and UELN is available for inspection or not. In this case. as a number of the German and Dutch passports already appear to have legitimate UELNs any duplicate passports with new second UELNs (which they will have) that are knowingly / deliberately issued to such horses (eg to any of the German ones cited with German UELNs in the catalogue and the ones with KWPN numbers that are automatically converted into 15-digit format by the KWPN upon updating) would appear to be issued in direct contradiction to this regulation.
(ii) with reagrd to those animals whose original passports are still in Germany awaiting issue after payment, as many German studbooks issue UELNs for prospective foals upon covering, all animals awaiting completion of their registration documents in Germany (for whatever reason) will already have had their German UELN issued to them so again passports containing a new UELN for these animals would also appear to be issued in contradiction of the law.
(iii) Since 1 July 2009 it is in direct contradiction of the passport regulations to re-microchip an already microchipped equine. Vets are now required by law to check for a microchip before inserting one and almost all the foriegn passported animals with UELNs issued by a studbook PIO abroad will have been microchipped before registration / issue of passport and this info probably included in the passport when issued. Any animal with a passport issued with a new UELN leading up the sale will therefore have been microchipped at some point and if any of those animals received a second microchip as part of the process of issuing it with a new / duplicate passport then this would appear to be in direct contradiction of the new regulations too.
(iv) Evidence of a brand of a recognsied studbook (which almost all of the Oldenburg horses will have had but not the KWPN ones) should also act as a trigger for research into the current microchip / passport status of the animal concerned and a knowledgeable vet working within the law will always do this.

It would therfore appear that if any of what is being reported as having happened actually did, then -- regardless of whether or not the passports were in the UK and accessible to the vet, Receiver or auctioneer -- at least TWO of the other regulations that form part of the passport lawas were being flouted anyway.

The penalities for such breaches are the same as those for breaching any other part of the passport legislations, ie (at top) £5000 per offence and/or 2 years in prison (but this is usually suspended to encourage future compliance), which few if any seem to be aware of. Perhaps this incident might wake some of them up to that.

As a point of interest, according to BEVA the failure / loss rate of correctly inserted equine muicrochips is almost zero (except in minature shetlands who have much smaller crests), so the possibility of not being able to find them in such a large group of horses, if they were already microchipped, is extremely unlikely and therefor actually statistically impossible for all the animals that it could be contended that it might have happened to.

 

[tweedette]

We have a microchip reader, so will take it over when next I go to see the horse as it reads all microchips not just uk ones, it will be interesting to see if the horse has two microchips , its a real can of worms and so unfair to the horses really.
thanks for the info though all we can do as purchasers is wait until someone gets back to us, though I will be cage rattling come monday lol.

 

[scotia2k7]

Dreadfully sad to read this. My yard boss went to the sale (home empty handed) & we had Classico & Donavan with us last year to get ready for gradings. Im pleased to hear these guys went on to good homes, both were nice boys.

scotia

 

[GORDON11]

hi does anyone have info on a black n white cob mare . name carousel .dob 1995 came from tullynessle she had a couple of foals i think cheers

 

[Cuffey]

She was Lot 20 in the sale
Think she sold for around £450 no idea who bought her and very much doubt auctioneers would tell you--data protection etc

 

[RA4]

http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/local/woman-caused-horses-to-suffer-1.173754