Seaver Girth Sleeve - A Week Or So On.

[Elf On A Shelf]

So I have had my Seaver Girth Sleeve in use for just over a week. I have had it on 2 horses consistantly from Tuesday to Saturday last week so I will give you there info. And another horse doing the a bit of work as a comparison. Each day has been the same route - a walk, trot, walk, trot, walk up the road to the gallops, up the gallops x amount of times then 5-8mins walking home before I switched it off, it was turned on as we left the yard. Our gallops are approx 5 furlongs on a good uphill gradient on a woodchip surface. We also canter back down our gallops.

So we will start off with heart rate. This is a simple one. The Max BP is the highest the heart went to. The average is from start to finish which takes into account the road work. Seaver consider Over Training to be any time the heart rate goes above 170bpm.

Horse 1 - did exactly the same work every day listed here - 2 canters bar the 27th where it did 1canter.
27th Nov - max BP - 220 - average 81 - normal road levels.
28th Nov - I put the wrong horse in the tracking so it makes all results null and void.
29th Nov - Max - 225 - av 94 - went high on 2nd road trot.
30th Nov - Max BP 221 - av 94 - normal road levels.
1st Dec - Max BP 244 - av 121 - went to max on 2nd road trot?!? High on first too.

This is the one that went funky. It will be interesting to see how this goes over the next few weeks.

Horse 2 - Did different work every day which is listed next to it.
28th Nov 3c 1/2speed - Max BP - 223, average 116 - spiked again 5mins off the gallop for a trot to get out of the way of a tractor.
29th Nov 2c - Max BP - 219, average 92
30th Nov 3c 1/2 speed - Max BP - 221, av 101
1st Dec 3c - work day - Max BP 220, av 106

On the graphs the top peaks are when we get to the top of the gallop, the troughs are when we canter back down, stop, turn and then head back up again. This one shows we went up 3x.

The next stat we have is how they move. Cadence - you want your horse to be moving as regularly as possible within each stride. Considering that we canter down our gallop a lot slower than we go up, and the horses can slip or trip more easily on the way down I am disregarding the canter section. It also doesn't always track walk for some reason. SPM - as it says on the tin. Average strides taken in each gait per minute. Trot Symmetry - the device only tracks when they are trotting in a straight line and you are looking for them to be as 50/50 as possible. They recommend you see a vet if your horse is below 40% on any one side or the % changes dramatically with a day or 2.

Horse 1 - Cadence - Strides Per Minute - Trot Symmety
27th Nov - Walk - 74/100 - 41 spm
- trot - 86/100 - 83 spm - 50.5%Left 49.5%Right
- Canter - 0/100 - 106 spm
29th Nov - walk - 66/100 - 35spm
- trot - 80/100 - 86 spm - 49.6% L 50.4% R
- canter- 45/100 - 108spm
30th Nov - walk - 79/100 - 45 spm
- trot - 80/100 - 80 spm - 53% L, 47% R
- canter - 31/100, 108 spm
1st Dec - Walk - not recorded at all
Trot - 84/100 - 85 spm - 50.3%L 49.7% R
Canter 20/100 - 106 spm

A bit of squiggley gobble-de-gook! That is supposed to be the graph of the Candence!

Horse 2
28th - The wee pad popped off so only tracked heart rate this day.
29th Nov - Walk - 64/100 - 38spm
- Trot - 77/100 - 88spm - 54.6%L 45.5%R
- canter - 30/100 - 116spm
30th Nov - Walk - 67/100 - 33 spm
- Trot - 86/100 - 90 spm - 49.75%L 50.3%R
- canter - 51/100 - 114 spm
1st Dec - Walk - 0/100 - 36 spm
- trot - 72/100 - 82 spm - 43%L 57%R
- canter - 39/100 - 115 spm

Speed - This is just the max speed the horse got to during it's work. Pretty simple but interesting.

Horse 1
27th Nov - 21.51 mph
29th Nov - speed - 21.28mph
30th Nov - Speed - 21.9mph
1st Dec - Speed - 24.7mph

Horse 2
29th Nov - 22.56mph
30th Nov - 23.58mph
1st Dec - Speed - 27.32mph

Calories burnt during exercise - as it says on the tin!

Horse 1
27th - 1c - 2597 kcal
29th - 2c - 3693
30TH - 2c - 3856
1st - 2c - 5772

Horse 2
29th Nov - 3302
30th Nov - 4203
1st Dec - 4384kcal

The device aslo tracks jumping. How big, etc. It managed to track Horse 1 broncing on 2 seperate occasions as a jump!

27th Nov - bronc right canter lead changing to left. 28%Left 72%Right - hind limb symmetry during propulsion
40 degree left shift
1.06g propulsion used to 'take off' - 0.38kj reception absorbtion when landing
29th Nov - Bronc right lead to left - 29% L 71% R hind limb symmetry, 38degree left shift, 1g propulsion, -0.02kj reception absorbtion

This is just a comparison - 2 horses doing the same work - 3 canters on a work day.

Horse 3 - last bit of work before a race so did a good bit but not mad.
Heart rate - Max 217 - average 101
walk - 0/100 37spm
trot - 86/100 85 spm 51.6%L 48.4%R
canter - 46/100 113spm
29.91mph
4117kcal

Horse 4 - 1st bit of work since being back in work so didn't go mad.
Heart Rate - Max 220 - average 106
Walk - 0/100 36 spm
trot - 72/100 82 spm 43%L 57%R
canter - 39/100 115 spm
Speed - 27.32mph
4384kcal

So in all it does give you a lot of information! Half of the graphs and stuff within the app just look like squigley lines to me but to be fair Seaver have been brilliant at answering all my questions - and they don't have many racehorses using it so are also keen to see the results. I might try and put it on a horse that is schooling over chase fences tomorrow!


This tells you how much time you spent in each gait. And how much of the time you bent left, right or went straight.

 

[MrsMozart]

Wow! That's a lot of info, thank you It'll take me a while to digest.

 

[ihatework]

The use of HR monitors is something I want to get to grips with and understand more.

What other systems have you used to compare with?

How has this data been interpreted and will it change training practices?

 

[DabDab]

Oh my goodness, so cool, I need one....Thank you so much for sharing....

Btw, have you ever thought of retraining as an engineer? I think you might like it 😜

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Wow! That's a lot of info, thank you It'll take me a while to digest.

There is even more info in the app! This is just the bare bones of it!

The use of HR monitors is something I want to get to grips with and understand more.

What other systems have you used to compare with?

How has this data been interpreted and will it change training practices?

We used the Equinity heart rate monitors a few years ago but they broke very easily and only gave you as much info as how high the heart rate went, how quickly it went up and came down. It didn't tell you at what point it was at it's highest or when it went up and down between bits of work. Just the over all stats.

I am just playing with a gadget I bought, if the boss wants to use the info to change anything then I will happily provide the full spec and use the device on other horses to see what is going on with them. Otherwise it is purely for my own amusement!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

So today we got to play jumpies! And I realised that I have had the girth sleeve on back to front BUT in my defence they don't actually give you any instructions at all on it! So I will be flipping all data round from left to right and from now on put it on the other way round

For jumping it in theory measures where you took off, how high you jumped and where you landed. How much they used each hind leg, how fast they went up, their strides per minute etc. Some of the data isn't the ost accurate. On one jump it recorded that the horse took off 746cm away from the jump - yeah as good as he can be he can't take off 8 meters out and survive!

So here is a screen shot of the very first jump the horse did.

 

[Leo Walker]

How accurate do you think it is? its giving you so much data, but things like the 8m take off would mean I wasnt sure I could trust it! I love stuff like this though

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

How accurate do you think it is? its giving you so much data, but things like the 8m take off would mean I wasnt sure I could trust it! I love stuff like this though

I'd say it's fairly accurate 80% of the time. Out of 11 jumps it put 2 at massive distances but the rest would have been relatively normal for the horse in question.

I would say the rest Is accurate enough 95% of the time. The heart rate goes up and down when it should as do strides, speed etc.

I have spoken to Seaver who have been brilliant in their responses. It's not as finely tuned for racehorses as it is for show jumpers and dressage horses who do things at a more regular pace. Their walk, trot and canter are pretty similar. You take a racehorse that strides out going up the gallops an d shortens and bobs back down you are going to throw some stats off. But the walk and trot are fairly accurate.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

So this is Horse 2's heart rate and speed data for 2 pieces of work. One on the main gallop, one on the easier gallop at the other yard.

Going 3x up doing a good bit of work on the harder gallop. 1x we go steady (What we call steady is probably really quick to normal people!) They 😂🤣😂 2x we go a decent speed, 3x we go quicker again but we never take them off the bridle or go completely flat out! Between each up we canter back down steadily (slower that we go up 1x but still quick for you guys!😂🤣😂) So you get a decrease in heart rate and speed, stop at the bottom, turn and shimmey on back up. Same at the top, stop, turn, off you go again. How long you stop for depends on how many horses are on the gallop and if you are up front out out the back.

The speed.

3x up at the other yard on the easier gallop. So this one the horses are on the walker for 20mins, we hop on, trot down the the circular gallop. Trot 2x each way, canter 2x each way and swing off up the gallop. It's shorter and not as steep. You don't really stop at the top of this one, you trot round the loop at the top, trot down the steeper bit then canter down the reast of the way, down to the circle and round once each way and up. So you do the first bit once, the next bit without stopping however many times you need for the number you are doing. So this is a 3x up.

You will notice we went much quicker 2nd time up as we had company. 3x up we were completely and utterly on our own on the gallop and Horse 2 is a bit of a lazy toad when he doesn't have company hence the speed really dropped off. But that's not a worry at all.

 

[Leo Walker]

I messaged them to see if it would adapt to fit on a driving harness and I think I can make it work. Theres no point at the minute as shes doing very little, but the more I see your posts the more I want one!

 

[JFTDWS]

Thanks for the more recent data - it's interesting to see. I want one too, but I'm too tight

 

[DabDab]

Me too LW
I really really want one, I'd really love the data on little mare.
Fittening for driving would be so interesting - you must post if you get one...

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

They are doing an Xmas deal - get a saddle pad and gloves for free when you buy one just now or pay an extra £100 and get a jacket too.

 

[ycbm]

Fascinating! Thanks for posting 👍

 

[Goldenstar]

Oh I would love one of these except i don’t do enough to make it worth it here .
The cadence reading might be able to be used to catch the gait changing when the legs are getting stressed and therefore prevent serious injury .
What they need next is a computer programme digested that and flags up worrying changes of course somebody would have to do all the work to understand what needs flagging up .
Thank you for posting .

 

[zaminda]

A friend of mine had one for endurance and it didn't stay connected very well so ended up going back. I find the data very interesting and would really like one for mine as if it worked continuously it would be a good training aid.

 

[ihatework]

Can you see the data real time or is it only when downloaded after?

I’m really interested in the application of this sort of technology to optimise training. I suppose ideally it would stream to a big wristwatch and alert you if you were working outside of predefined parameters?

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

You can see b

Can you see the data real time or is it only when downloaded after?

I’m really interested in the application of this sort of technology to optimise training. I suppose ideally it would stream to a big wristwatch and alert you if you were working outside of predefined parameters?

You can see bits of it real time - such as heart rate. But generally I need both hands on my reins beyond a walk so don't tend to fiddle with it too much and leave it to do its job.

GS - yes in theory if the cadence goes below certain percentages you are recommended to get a vet check. I've not had it on a lame horse so couldn't say if it suggests a predominantly lame leg or not. There is still a lot to play with on it and I will get round to playing with it all at some point lol! But I will keep updating this thread every so often I think.

 

[Mrs B]

Thanks for posting that EKW - very interesting! I wonder if one day all racehorses will were these while actually racing: not just from a training point of view to see what a winning performance looks like as a set of data, but so they could also be used as a kind of 'black box' for when things go wrong ...

 

[ihatework]

Thanks for posting that EKW - very interesting! I wonder if one day all racehorses will were these while actually racing: not just from a training point of view to see what a winning performance looks like as a set of data, but so they could also be used as a kind of 'black box' for when things go wrong ...

I think there are widespread uses for this type of technology to safeguard horses. For example, dog tired event horses, could there be sufficient info to guide stewards into the appropriate time to intervene and pull a horse up. Same goes for endurance. Trickier in racing but certainly food for thought.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

The gadget works via blue tooth and you need to be near it to receive it's data. A horse on an xc course or a racetrack would be going past too fast to pass data on. Plus it takes a minute or so to download the data from the gadget to the phone. I am looking at this data 3-4 mins after I have switched the device off from recording. So yes it's still a quick turnaround but defos not real time.

You would need to develop a gadget with real time relay via 3/4g to know what is going in when.

You would hope that the riders are sensible enough to know when their horse is tired/injured and pull it up - there are rules for racing jockeys and if they break them they are banned/fined. I don't know if such a thing exists in eventing but surely a fence judge would be able to notice a seriously tired horse and flag them down or one that is noticeably lame?

If a Horse is having a heart attack no matter if you have real time tracking or not it's not going to make a difference to the outcome sadly. But in the training at home you would be able to highlight horses with heart problems via erratic bp results. The app won't tell you what is wrong but it would be wise to get a vet involved if stats are off. That's why it's good to have it on every day so you know what the norm is so you when something changes.

 

[ihatework]

The gadget works via blue tooth and you need to be near it to receive it's data. A horse on an xc course or a racetrack would be going past too fast to pass data on. Plus it takes a minute or so to download the data from the gadget to the phone. I am looking at this data 3-4 mins after I have switched the device off from recording. So yes it's still a quick turnaround but defos not real time.

You would need to develop a gadget with real time relay via 3/4g to know what is going in when.

You would hope that the riders are sensible enough to know when their horse is tired/injured and pull it up - there are rules for racing jockeys and if they break them they are banned/fined. I don't know if such a thing exists in eventing but surely a fence judge would be able to notice a seriously tired horse and flag them down or one that is noticeably lame?

If a Horse is having a heart attack no matter if you have real time tracking or not it's not going to make a difference to the outcome sadly. But in the training at home you would be able to highlight horses with heart problems via erratic bp results. The app won't tell you what is wrong but it would be wise to get a vet involved if stats are off. That's why it's good to have it on every day so you know what the norm is so you when something changes.

No I agree, this equipment isn’t yet sophisticated enough to do what I alluded to. But I anticipate that as technology develops it will be and we will reach a point where it is possible to monitor performance horses centrally.

I don’t think it’s always as easy as it may sound for a rider, whatever discipline, to pull up a horse. Many different factors in play which combined don’t give an easy answer.

In Eventing fence judges only pull up a competitor on the direction of the ground jury, who will be monitoring progress centrally. There is no way you could leave the subtleties of that decision to the fence judge in cases that are not clear cut. If they are clear cut then yes, rider can and should make the decision and appropriate sanctions are available to the ground jury if they don’t.

I certainly believe these devices have a really important role to play in training at home. Optimising performance and getting early indicators when something is wrong. I doubt the device is sufficiently calibrated and validated in a real life setting with a high enough N to be there yet, but it’s coming.

I disagree that you could never prevent a horse dropping down dead on course. I think you will get to the stage where there will be sufficient data to indicate when a horse might be reaching high risk level.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Ah see my knowledge of xc is absolutely zilch! So a fence judge can report back in to the ground jury who can then send back out a message to a jump judge further up the course to get a Horse pulled up? Via walky walky or mobile?!?

Yes you can probably prevent some heart related conditions from affecting a Horse on the course if you know of them in advance from your home work and ride accordingly so you know when a Horse really is going over the top but would you then be able to act on that quickly enough to prevent loss of life? Hopefully the answer will be yes in the future. In the mean time riders need to listen to their horses and react accordingly.

 

[ihatework]

Ah see my knowledge of xc is absolutely zilch! So a fence judge can report back in to the ground jury who can then send back out a message to a jump judge further up the course to get a Horse pulled up? Via walky walky or mobile?!?

Yes you can probably prevent some heart related conditions from affecting a Horse on the course if you know of them in advance from your home work and ride accordingly so you know when a Horse really is going over the top but would you then be able to act on that quickly enough to prevent loss of life? Hopefully the answer will be yes in the future. In the mean time riders need to listen to their horses and react accordingly.

Yes you have the gist.
All fence judges have access to a walkie talkie system. So as each competitor jumps feed back is given to central control (and monitored by the ground jury at FEI). At a higher level most is covered by a video livestream. So in cases of rule infringement it’s pretty easy for control to, for example, count number of refusals and then if the max is exceeded and rider doesn’t stop, to authorise fence judge to pull the rider up.
A fatigued horse isn’t always so clear cut - I’m sure it’s no different to racing, you will get some lazy beggars who look like they are more tired than they are, and you will get some would work until they dropped if you let them. It would be all too easy to pull up the former and not the latter - which is where the technology could really help.

 

[Gloi]

OOh I wish Santa would fetch me one of these. I can't justify it now but I would like one to monitor fitness as I am planning to do a bit of endurance when my youngster is a bit older. I wonder how well it would work on a gaited horse? I bet it would get its knickers in a twist with the walk/trot/canter part.

 

[Leo Walker]

I finally bit the bullet and as part of my "get the pony fit for an outdoor driving trial" plan I ordered one late Sunday night. It arrived lunchtime today which is pretty impressive seeing as it came from France! They have been really helpful with any stupid questions I have so far including a huge panic that it wasnt working which cringingly turned out to be user error! I'm going to give it a spin tomorrow. Bobbie seems terrifyingly fit for a horse that isnt doing very much but I will be interested to see if her heart rate reflects this and to see if she is as even as I think she is!

I paid £59 and then its £20 a month for 12 months. Quite expensive total price but I wont notice £20 a month so I'm telling myself it was £59!