Sedalin for a difficult loader

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doris2008

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Had anyone used Sedalin with success to get a difficult loader loaded! I have to get mine to the vets next week for new shoes. He was supposed to go today but after 4 people spending over an hour & a half, and him rearing & falling over backwards we had no choice but to give up.
We used lunge lines, food, pressure halter, chifney..nothin worked. He puts front legs on ramp & then moves around side of ramp with backs, even with trailer as close to wall as possible.
Also was thinking about removing middle partition, has this helped anyone before?
I don't believe it is a fear issue, he stands very calmy & eats his hay once loaded, he just decides he is not going on. He really doesn't have a lot of self preservation when it comes to it either. At a loss as to what to do next...
 
i'd definitely remove the centre partition, it's a lot more inviting with more width. if possible, i'd stick the trailer in his field with the water in, personally...!
otherwise, what about getting Richard Maxwell or someone similar out to sort it. i might not agree with a lot of Natural Horsemanship stuff, but they're very good with dodgy loaders!
controller halter, long line, lots of patience, lots of time.
it sounds to me as if he's still unsure of the ramp taking his full weight, if he'll put the fronts on but not the backs. it's a very big deal to a horse... he knows it's not solid (he knows there's daylight under it, it doesn't ever feel totally solid), and if it collapses and he breaks his legs, he'll be eaten by tigers...!
i'd do tons of stomping around on the ramp yourself while he stands and watches, then coax another inch forward with food, etc etc. be prepared for it to take 4 hours and then it won't!
very best of luck.
oh, i wouldn't used sedalin, i don't think it would take the edge of him enough personally, and if he starts chucking himself around while sedated, he's even more likely to lose his balance and hurt himself and possibly a person too.
 
Thanks, think will ditch the partition. I didn't make it very clear that he has travelled many times in this trailer without any fuss, then goes through phases of just not doing it! This time he seems a lot worse though. He will jump about happily on the ramp making lots of noise & not seem scared at all. When he is genuinly frightened his bottom lip quivers, he shakes, etc etc, He shows none of this & it totally happy to stand & doze on ramp until pressured into moving.
We had a parelli lady out a few years ago, which worked great until we had to start going places & obviously I couldn't take the lady with me!!
 
Remove centre partition - and when he plants send him backwards away from you until he wants to come forwards - keep doing this and eventually he should want to load - also as hard as it is while loading do not look at him.

Good luck, I know all you are going through.
 
Is there a barn that you can back the trailer up to? We had one that wouldn't load and he was just being a pain in the arse rather than being scared. We used to put him in the barn/large stable and back the trailer up to it, once he knew he wasn't going anywhere but in the trailer he walked straight in!
 
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Is there a barn that you can back the trailer up to? We had one that wouldn't load and he was just being a pain in the arse rather than being scared. We used to put him in the barn/large stable and back the trailer up to it, once he knew he wasn't going anywhere but in the trailer he walked straight in!

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That may work, have a barn with a wide entrance with solid metal gates which I can close around ramp so only way is up!
 
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Remove centre partition - and when he plants send him backwards away from you until he wants to come forwards - keep doing this and eventually he should want to load - also as hard as it is while loading do not look at him.

Good luck, I know all you are going through.

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Out of interest what effect will not looking at him have?
He doesn't usually plant much...he runs forward & puts his front feet on then swings hind round to the side..will try backing him up though.
 
The barn tricked worked every time with my very awkward cowbag mare - she was not frightened, just didn't want to go on. Put her in an indoor school, stable, barn etc and she practically ran up the ramp herself.

I would also take out the partition and cross tie him once in.
 
Not sure if this would be practical in your case nor if it would work, but I'll explain what I used to do which worked.

Forget about getting people to help you, this will never work, the aim is to get the horse in on your own, willingly and not by force or being scared into it.

Nothing wrong with using a lunge line, or a chiffney if it is a quick fix that gets the horse in within a minute, otherwise the horse will just put up a fight, they know there own strength and someone or your horse will get injured.

Ok, so some horses don't like travelling because there is bad travellers, don't like enlcosed spaces, or simply know that afer they have travelled it involves work.

If you way to your horse is through his stomach...then this might help. I'm not encouraging people to bribe horses in with food as that is not acceptable i know but he needs to learn that the trailer is actually a nice place be...like a stable.

If you can, park your trailer in a safe place near your stable so he can see you going in and out of it, if your horse comes in on a night or just comes in for is tea, start making it in the trailer, get his interest in what you are doing. Take your divider out and if you can (providing your yard is enclosed, let him be curious and wander over, walk on the ramp etc. This could take a few weeks but horses are naturally very inquisitive. Feed him twice on the ramp so he is on the ramp but don't pull or persuade him in, if he backs off let him, but only let him eat his food when he can reach it on the ramp. Once you have achieved this twice, now he had to make the effort to come in, again don't pull him or put any pressure, has to be his decision, because at the moment your concentrating on making him think that coming into the trailer is nice, does not mean that you are taking him away from his friends and doing work. If he does not come in, don't let him have his bucket feed, seems cruel but providing your horse can go without for a week or so, he may give in and enter the trailer for his feed. Once you have achieved this, your on a roll, feed him every night for a month, don't go anywhere just keep that routine. Then when he has finished, start with short session of not letting him back off straight away after finishing his food, until he waits patiently for your command to back off. Then you leave him to feed with the back up, again, then let him come out.
Always be very careful, use gloves, protective foot and head wear, always use bailer twin and never attempt to tie up until the breach straps are across in case he panics, or learns to lean back. Then you keep a mix of feeding him and not going anywhere and feeding him (a little bit in bucket so he thinks he's getting a feed) and going to a competition.

Could take a few months but it does work if you horse thinks with his stomach!

Again I have used sedalin after spending 4 hours and many rope burns later getting someone else's horse in a horse box and also seen a horse trash brand new trailer but these are horses that have not travelled for ages nor have the owners practiced and put time into it..but if you put the time and patience in, you get there in the end, always remain calm and don't rush...hopefully you find a way that works for your horse.
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Personally I wouldn't use sedalin either for loading practice or travel. I don't think it is a particularly safe option as it will alter balance and movement.

I think you have to be very patient here. The idea of the food on the ramp every dinner time sounds great, as described by an earlier poster. You have to be so disciplined with the rewards (food) or when using pressure (pressure release). If it is possible to keep things calm and patient (however long it takes) I wonder if this is the best option?

Because sometimes he is OK going out and then periods when he wont load - Could this be to do with something that happens when he goes to a venue? Could it be he isn't keen on the venue and/or work? I wouldn't imagine many horses like a trip to the vets and may be wary next time??

If I was really struggling I wouldn't think twice about getting one of Monty Robert's associates or similar out.
 
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Personally I wouldn't use sedalin either for loading practice or travel. I don't think it is a particularly safe option as it will alter balance and movement.

I think you have to be very patient here. The idea of the food on the ramp every dinner time sounds great, as described by an earlier poster. You have to be so disciplined with the rewards (food) or when using pressure (pressure release). If it is possible to keep things calm and patient (however long it takes) I wonder if this is the best option?

Because sometimes he is OK going out and then periods when he wont load - Could this be to do with something that happens when he goes to a venue? Could it be he isn't keen on the venue and/or work? I wouldn't imagine many horses like a trip to the vets and may be wary next time??

If I was really struggling I wouldn't think twice about getting one of Monty Robert's associates or similar out.

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Can you recommend someone or provide information to contact someone who could come out?

I agree that it may well be to do with where he thinks he is going, he has been to the vets recently & may well think he is going again.

I think it is going to take a lot of time & patience & a lot of practice runs out to make him realise its not all bad. I though about trying to take hm out & then just let him have some grass, obviously I need to get to a stage where he travels first.

He was sedated via injection when on the way home from vets last time, he didn't wobble & was quiet as a lamb all the way home, and normal by the time we unloaded.
Have to admit I don't particularly want to sedate but don't feel short term I have any other option.
 
Sedalin may (or may not) solve the issue once but it doesn't really get to the root of the issue. Like another poster has said, I would also worry about the affect it may have on the horse's balance & what might happen if it wears off & the horse then panics.

Kenzo has made some very good points. Loading issues are very often leading issues in disguise. The horse must be confident enough to walk alongside you where you want to go, when you want to go and at what pace you want to go. It is vital that you don't just let the horse plant themselves on the ramp - keep him moving. A useful exercise is to walk the horse across the ramp - it changes their perception about the exercise (ie it's not about going into the trailer) and they have to engage their brain to coordinate their feet. Approach it almost as though you are lungeing and just keep it in walk but keep the momentum up & reverse direction often. It builds up confidence on the ramp and they stop seeing it as somewhere to just stop & plant themselves, if that makes sense? Gradually you can start to change your position so that you are walking them over the ramp - ie you are at their shoulder and then you can change the angle so that they walk alongside you into the trailer - this works very well without the partition.

While I'm not a particular fan of NH / Parelli etc etc, one of the most useful DVDs I ever watched was the Parelli loading one. I had a HORRIBLE loader and tried everything - lunge line, chiffney, be-nice halter, dually, throwing water at his quarters, a plank of wood to stop him reversing, parking up against walls, reversing the trailer up the stable & even getting a Kelly Marks person out (who helpfully made the problem worse, not the best 200 quid I've ever spent!) and spent literally hours trying to get home from shows and I can honestly say that after watching that DVD, I never looked back and very quickly had a horse that basically loads himself.

Good luck!
 
PS - I should have said that I think I had no more than two sessions using the Parelli techniques before the problem was solved so while I echo everyone's comments about being patient, it may work more quickly than you think. I also agree about not having tons of helpers - one person max and preferably just to make sure you're safe rather than standing behind or to the side as it can work against you - you want the horse focused solely on YOU!
 
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Sedalin may (or may not) solve the issue once but it doesn't really get to the root of the issue. Like another poster has said, I would also worry about the affect it may have on the horse's balance & what might happen if it wears off & the horse then panics.

Kenzo has made some very good points. Loading issues are very often leading issues in disguise. The horse must be confident enough to walk alongside you where you want to go, when you want to go and at what pace you want to go. It is vital that you don't just let the horse plant themselves on the ramp - keep him moving. A useful exercise is to walk the horse across the ramp - it changes their perception about the exercise (ie it's not about going into the trailer) and they have to engage their brain to coordinate their feet. Approach it almost as though you are lungeing and just keep it in walk but keep the momentum up & reverse direction often. It builds up confidence on the ramp and they stop seeing it as somewhere to just stop & plant themselves, if that makes sense? Gradually you can start to change your position so that you are walking them over the ramp - ie you are at their shoulder and then you can change the angle so that they walk alongside you into the trailer - this works very well without the partition.

While I'm not a particular fan of NH / Parelli etc etc, one of the most useful DVDs I ever watched was the Parelli loading one. I had a HORRIBLE loader and tried everything - lunge line, chiffney, be-nice halter, dually, throwing water at his quarters, a plank of wood to stop him reversing, parking up against walls, reversing the trailer up the stable & even getting a Kelly Marks person out (who helpfully made the problem worse, not the best 200 quid I've ever spent!) and spent literally hours trying to get home from shows and I can honestly say that after watching that DVD, I never looked back and very quickly had a horse that basically loads himself.

Good luck!

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Thanks...off to find that to buy I think!
He is a confident well mannered horse in every other way. He leads exceptionally well & I would trust him with a child, does not pull to grass or anything like that.

Another thing...would you leave it for today or try giving him his tea from ramp this eve?
 
Agree with others' comments about leading control being important.
I used one of the Monty Roberts associates several yrs ago because my horse was difficult / aggressive in the stable.
The first thing they did was spend a lot of time on him keeping out of my own personal space and me leading him, rather than the other way around! I don't think this particular assocociate is on the list anymore.

Here is where you can find the list;
http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.com/
(Under HH Trainers)

Not sure where you are but you should hopefully find someone in your area. I don't think it is cheap....but you may only need one or 2 visits. (I had 2).

LOVE the idea of taking him off and give him good experiences, i.e. the grass.
 
I agree with the posts about not using sedalin. I think it's a last resort option and won't solve the problem longer term. I also know of a woman who sustained a nasty broken foot unloading a sedated horse for obvious reasons.

I'm also with the other members who suggest using parellli/natural horsemanship methods. My mare was a nightmare as she wasn't particularily frightened of the trailer but very determined not to go in. Her favourite trick would be to load on the outward journey but flatly refuse to load to come home. After trying literally everything and being stuck once again for 3 hours at a competition venue, a friend called in a natural horsemanship practitioner. Unbelievably after 20 mins she was standing in the trailer and even loaded herself after another 10 mins of practise.

The main jist of the method is to use a pressure halter (very carefully and with minimum pressure), use lots of circling, backing up and turning until the horse is "joined up". When you have a good rapport going and the horse is listening to you (please do this on your own with no distractions from helpers), approach the trailer. Using light pressure encourage them to move but if you don't get an almost instant agreement, back them off the ramp and start again. At all times remain calm and avoid any confrontational behaviour or body language. In my mare's case as soon as I started to get annoyed she would just switch off. At that point nothing would move her. However, using this method they will eventually realise that there is nothing to fight against and will accept the trailer as an ok place to be.

I've tried this with my mare and our cocky little kids pony who has tried it on recently. Both are now loading ok but if they do plant, I immediately revert to the method and keep things very calm.

I hope this helps a bit although its probably echoing earlier tips. One thing I wouldn't do again is to travel without the central partition. I did try it as a friend always travels her horse without the partition and cross tied with no problems at all. I tried this method with my mare but the smarty pants actually managed to turn herself around in spite of being cross tied - doesn't take too much effort to break a lead rope/headcollar and it's amazing how they can bend themselves in two. It was then a real job to get her back in the right direction as unloading was not an option en route (besides, would never have got her back in).

Hope this helps and good luck with your trailer training.
 
Sorry, didn't look at this thread again until this morning. To be honest, I wouldn't worry too much about feeding him on the ramp or in the trailer. I think doing that is just one of those things that makes us feel better & that we're making progress but isn't really tackling the problem. If you think about the bigger picture, you want a horse that will walk on first time, every time alongside you - you don't want to be faffing about with buckets of feed each time to tempt him in. If you end up tempting him in with feed, you are putting yourself in a position of weakness from a leading perspective as you want to be alongside of him and not ahead of him. I'm sure a lot of loading problems come from the horse not being able to see ahead of him because his owner is standing directly in front either waving treats, buckets of feeds or hauling on the rope in desperation!! I would certainly give the Parelli DVD a try initially before getting a Natural Horsemanship person out - it's a lot cheaper if you can solve it yourself. The fact that your horse is confident & well mannered & leads well at other times means that with the right techniques you should be able to sort this out really quickly.

Good luck - let us know how you get on.
 
Thanks guys...going to spend all day sunday with him as I have nothing else to do so won't need to rush him. At this stage I will have to leave the partition in as don't have a full width breast bar but I think I will consider removing it.

We had a parelli lady out a few years ago & her technique did work well on him, after 20 mins he would load himself, howeevr once he has been out & about a few times & realised he goes places to work he says no again & despite everything I can't get him in!

I think its going to be a matter of me spending every waking moment doing it again & again until he thinkg nothing of it..
 
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