Sedate for travelling?!

[usernamepending]

Neeed answers quick!!! Went to pick up my gelding today and he wouldnt load, after 3 hours of trying EVERYTHING we had to stop. My friend rang the vet who suggested sedation using ketamine, i was just wondering, is this safe? Will he fall in the trailer? Any other solution?

Its not a problem at home as i dont plan to travel just a happy hacker, but there is no way he would get in the trailor he was literally terrified and shaking D:

What to do!??

Any help would be much appreciated!!!!!!!

 

[LouS]

I would never sedate to travel.

Did you take the partition out of the trailer?

Can you possibly hire a horsebox, I find they like them a lot better.

 

[Lintel]

I wouldn't like to sedate while travelling for the reasons you have mentioned but I've heard of others doing in in a trailer and they boxed the horse right in to prevent/cushion a fall.

Has he gotten in before? If so has something happened?
If your just buying him now- maybe consult his owners more.
A lot of horses won't travel if they have been moved pillar to post every time they have been traveled. Even a "bad driver" could have really unsettled him?

I can't help much- but I'm interested to see others answers. Best of Luck with him though.
-As LouS said a horsebox seems to work a lot better for others. Or is there another horse(good loader) that could assist him?

 

[usernamepending]

thanks for the replies, we tried both horsebox and trailer D: Nothing seemed to work! Tried putting his friend in, putting it into the pen, covering his head etc. I really dont want to sedate but its looking like the only option ....

 

[Lintel]

thanks for the replies, we tried both horsebox and trailer D: Nothing seemed to work! Tried putting his friend in, putting it into the pen, covering his head etc. I really dont want to sedate but its looking like the only option ....

Argh what a pain.. it has got to be the most frustrating thing ever.
Well I can only wish you the best of luck!

 

[usernamepending]

Thank you! I think ill need it haha

 

[blood_magik]

mine had to be last week because he got himself in such a state when we closed the ramp.

what about a calmer?

 

[iconique]

A small amount of sedation can make it a positive experience. If they are so stressed, it can stop them from injuring themselves when in the trailer or lorry alone. We have one mare, that without will basically trash anything to get out and with a small calculated amount, she will stand like a lamb - btw we do this on the instruction of our vet and do not compete her.

Calmer may work and there is one that is quite expensive - imogen burrows was talking about it in the vet section the other day, be interested to see if this has an affect and am planning to do a dummy local run with our mare to see if it does work.

The key is try a little, wait for it to work, then if need be try a little more, but don't overdo it! We get into a vicious circle of not sedating because its not good form, but forget that the horse might take it more in his stride and actually travel the next time better.

If he's never travelled before, I'd slow the collection process down and start with just getting him desensitised with the trailer or lorry, then trying the whole feed in lorry etc thing. You may think as a happy hacker he won't have to travel, but ime I've had to travel my mare several times for veterinary reasons. btw we don't travel any of our other horses sedated and the only reason we do this one is for her and our safety (before someone jumps down my neck!)

 

[mountainview22]

As above, a little may help.

obviously don't knock him out.

The other.important thing is how far do you have to travel?

I've seen lightly sedated horses "come around" then start the whole epidemic again. That was a long drive mind.

Try opening jockey door with someone out of sight to close it so light gets in. move partitions over. Only one handler in his sight and calm slow movements.

Sounds obvious, but i'm trying.

All else fails have a handler and a walker, as in get someone to.pick his hoofs up one by one until he's on.

 

[usernamepending]

Thanks for all the help! The girl who owns the box said she defiantly thinks he needs sedating but have been asking around and alot of people are suggesting Super kalm paste? Any body used it? Will it work to travel her, its about a half hour journey

 

[ebonyallen]

Have used a different paste not that one, have to say with my girl it still took a while to get her in. Sorry not much help, it might work for you, good luck.

 

[Hootey123]

Just take ur time..don't force them in but don't let them back off..don't push them into anything & make sure you don't get stressed.. it took me 4 hours too load mine and for most of that i was stood at the end of rope with it loose & waiting for him too make it his decision to come in.. and asking him now and again too come forward & in the end he did.. then i stood him in there for a few mins and took him back through again..this way they don't feel trapped feed helps and lots of praise! I wouldn't suggest sedating as they need to be balanced in the trailer and also if they are that stressed the sedation probs isn't going to work!

 

[Hootey123]

p.s remember you don't want to scare them into the box as they could have a serious accident once the trailer actually starts moving

 

[usernamepending]

Thanks for all the advice its been really helpful! Going to go down with the vet and use the kalming paste then if that doesnt work we will have to sedate him :L

 

[Miss L Toe]

As above, a little may help.

obviously don't knock him out.

The other.important thing is how far do you have to travel?

I've seen lightly sedated horses "come around" then start the whole epidemic again. That was a long drive mind.

Try opening jockey door with someone out of sight to close it so light gets in. move partitions over. Only one handler in his sight and calm slow movements.

Sounds obvious, but i'm trying.

All else fails have a handler and a walker, as in get someone to.pick his hoofs up one by one until he's on.

I have seen horses panic and try to get out of a jockey door [of a lorry] so I advise that you have the [sun]light shining in to the lorry rather than facing it. With a trailer the ramp at front should be down.
I don't like the idea of people hiding from the horse, he this may make him nervous, I keep any people behind or to the side, but not threatening him, just "supporting me"
I might use other people to help him if they are sensible and he knows them.
He will sniff the ramp, this is fine, then he will think, I'll have another sniff, and so he starts to delay things.
You can try lifting one foot on to the ramp.
You need to work on his groundwork away from the trailer, with a pressure and release halter, also make sure he backs in hand and turns in hand. Until this is achieved you will not load him.
He must present square on the the ramp, any deviation from this and you need to re-present.
Some people wil walk a pony over the ramp first, side on, obviously this helps if he is frightened by the ramp being unstable/noisy.
If he tri-pods ie back legs out to the side you have to re-present, he can't walk forwards like that.
As he is frightened, do not allow people to use force of any kind, he will start to rear or fall over backwards if you try a tight lunge rope.
To be honest I have had people who are nervous even thinking about loading, I took one such [owners] horse out of its stable, led it round the yard for four minutes asking it to follow me and so on [is this join up?], and ended up at the trailer, it went straight in. The next time the owner, took it out of its stable straight to the trailer and it refused, there was an army of people with lunge reins and brushes and whips. Really there is no helping some people.

 

[iconique]

Found it - might be worth a try? (i will be)
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=414550&highlight=imogen

 

[BlackRider]

Maybe next time try sedalin gel, (ACP) it won't be as powerful as a full sedation, but might be enough to take the edge off.

 

[Goldenstar]

I travelled a horse with colic two and three quarter hours to hospital under a lot of sedation we has no choice her behaviour was so violent .
It was A very frightening experiance .
I would consider using sedaline gel but really the problem needs solving not masking with drugs.

 

[glenruby]

Sedation can work well for travelling and is commonly used. However ketamine is an anaesthetic and not a sedative. Are you SURE that's what the vet suggested?

 

[mountainview22]

Can't quote.sorry, miss toe, I've watched a section a get out of a jockey door he was unharmed but it was a sight for you've been framed. This was on an experienced stud farm.

I see what your saying. But if it's raining?
I say to keep the jockey door security guard out of sight as I don't know many horses that will load into a small space with an unknown human standing at the destination, likewise regarding loading with one handler, there's more chance of the horse engaging "flight" mode with 10 strangers flapping around them.

It's hard to build up a picture how it's done, but it's not as bad as the impression I think you got from my rubbish description lol!

 

[mountainview22]

Sorry, forgot too add;

Different peoples ways are showing through, I never open the front ramp, have personally had horse go straight through the breast bar and out of the ramp taking half of the trailers side with it.

I think it all just boils down to personal preference.

 

[Mariposa]

A small amount of sedation can make it a positive experience.

I absolutely agree.

We had to dope one of our ponies to load her, (with sedalin), to get her into the lorry. Its not that she is actually scared, she is just very stubborn, loading can take upwards of an hour, to the point we've had to leave without her on more than one occasion.

We used dope to load her to get her over to Jason Webb's so he could teach her to load! Having her just a bit dopy, not falling over, made a huge difference because she wasn't fighting us every step of the way, and made it safer for her, and us!

 

[Littlelegs]

I don't mind sedalin to calm one but ime if they're genuinely scared it can often make it worse, good if they're a bit jumpy but if really scared they remain so but have less balance if they do leap about. I'd try a calmer myself before a sedative. Ketamines a tranquiliser not a sedative.

 

[barehoofhannah]

My pref is other escape routes shut, so in panic don't try to push through a space like a jockey door that isn't big enough.

Is there no way you could get a horsemanship specialist out? A
Monty Roberts Associate or someone that could take the time. If I was the horse I'd feel really untrusting of my human if he drugged me to get me into a position where i'd do someone I didn't feel conformable doing. I've got a youngster and we've done a lot of load ten times then put back in the field, then a few days later, load ten times. I do it do he goes in with a bit of a suggestion so I feel if it's his own choice then he'll be confortable/confident travelling. Just getting them to eat on the ramp.. I sometimes to practice sessions in the horrible windy wet weather so he can either be outside or eat hay in and get a bit of a scratch.. The more I think about it though the more I think how odd it is to travel a horse in close confinement.. Bit like us stepping into a wardrobe or coffin and then it being moved. Horses really will try do the best they can but we really do ask a lot..

Also depends on the emotions of the owner, horse will prob read stress or anger/frustration as fear and if they think you are scared they are not going to be confident. In the past I've had the horsebox driver or unhorsey boyfirend load when I felt anxious so horse wouldn't be put off by body language.

You could find out about essential oils and herbs with calming properties and see if he goes to self select when preparing to load or loaded.

Good luck, can't be easy for you.

Hannah

 

[Tammytoo]

The only problem with a sedative is that they have to be calm when you give it to them or they simply make an already nervous/stroppy horse worse. Although banned for competitions (because it is so effective) Valerian is a good calmer. It doesn't make them sleepy or dopey, but makes them more sensible and co-operative.

As a last resort could you not ride or lead him home with a friend? Once you are at home you can then practice loading with all thwe time in the world and just doing it a bit at a time, i.e. get him to stand on the ramp, then take him off reward and do it again etc.

If you are up for getting someone out to help I can thoroughly recommend Michael Peace. My rescue horse was terrified of being loaded and reacted by rearing, backing up, kicking etc. He immediately realised that she was "expecting" a fight so was reacting accordingly. Within 30 minutes he had her loading slowly and calmly, even loading herself!

Good luck.

 

[usernamepending]

Again thank you all for the advise its so helpful Rang the vet and he recomened sedinal (think thats the name). You mentioned calmers? If these dont work would i then be able to use sedinal later in the day?

Thank you!

 

[TarrSteps]

Did you get the horse sorted, OP?

Re using both calmers and sedation - it would depend a lot on what you're using. I have "stacked" them (horse on calmer for box rest, sedated for walking etc.) but you do have to be mindful with dosages etc. Too much sedation can make loading impossible and different sedatives have different side affects which you have to watch out for. I've seen people seriously endangered by putting a sedated horse under pressure, apparently under the impression the horse won't react to normal stimuli, only to have it react violently. More than one person has been kicked by a horse on ACP!

The best way forward depends a bit on why the horse won't load. Sedation (and technically calmers, although it's pretty obvious all products don't work the same for all horses) will decrease his anxiety somewhat. Is it not possible to get someone who knows what they're up to to help you? Obviously that will cost some money but at this point it's probably worth it, not just to get the horse home, but in the long term. Did the vendor say the horse shipped well? If so, perhaps they could foot the bill and/or deliver the horse themselves?

 

[Miss L Toe]

It is very difficult if he is scared, as he will react in panic mode, I would have him in a bridle and a lunge line, let him run back if he panics, then ask him to "try" to come forward. Reward every try, rub him on the front of the face, do nothing when he runs back.
MY boy used to load until I had to move him several times, this upset him a lot and so he refused to load, not scared just stood on ramp and would go no further.
I am getting on with mine on daily loading practice, I have a big bowl with tasty oats in it, every day we get a bit closer to our target which is to get him inside the trailer [four legs]. He almost dashed in to it the other day when I was walking him past it! This has taken about ten days, ten minute sessions. No pressure on him, it is all voluntary.
We load the trailer with ponies outside his stable when they are going to shows, hoping that he will realise they "come home" again.
Once he loading in the trailer, [he walks out backwards], without any hesitation, I will make my goal to walk through.

 

[milesjess]

I had to get mine to the vets, but he wouldn't load due to problems with his legs (normally leads himself on), I think he was anticipating the pain... But either way he had to go!

I sedated him, only a low dosage and he was fine. Helped take the edge off him and made it a safer journey for me and him.

 

[milesjess]

To add - I used sedalin from vets.

Once you get him and he settles, maybe start addressing the main issue of him loading