'Seeing it through' - tantrums. Sorry, long

Burnttoast

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Hope you clever guys in CR don't mind a slightly non-CR post:
I hack a horse for a friend a couple of times a week. He's always been very spooky, very looky, and I don't have a problem with that - doesn't worry me, aside from its potential causes. He's a simple soul :rolleyes: who was rejected from at least one pro yard (I can see why) prior to his current ownership. He is just starting on RiteTrak for possible hind gut issues, and recently I would have said that his reactiveness was in general less than before. However, the pressure on him has been upped substantially in his schooling in the last month or two (still very basic, but he is very behind the aids and rather crooked, and persuading him otherwise is a long-haul job) and he is now having regular, and increasing, tantrums - think sitting, piaffing, reversing, grunting and groaning, big bucks in canter when asked to continue. Trainer is keen that rider takes him on. I'm not keen on conflict (would rather hide tbh!) and my own reaction would be to drop the reins, walk away, pick up and start again as though nothing had happened.

This behaviour has now transferred to his hacking. That is, a spook or a scare is followed by a full on tantrum - spin, buck, levade, sit and reverse, head between knees - repeatedly. Again, I can cope (so far!), though my hacking buddy is worried and I don't really want to come off onto a hard grass track miles from home, but it makes me think that either he's simply learning this stuff through prolonged repetition in his lessons or is genuinely under too much pressure and is now overreacting to things that provoked a slightly, but not massively, OTT reaction before. It feels like anger (well, meltdown, actually, I'm not sure he really knows what he's doing. His hacking partner could gallop away and he wouldn't notice), but is provoked, at least hacking out, by his fears - he's fine until then and has never been nappy in any way.

He is consistently improving off the aids and in the rein, between tantrums. Do I have to wait this out? Not sure what to say to his owner apart from reporting what he does. Am I being a terrible hippy? There may be physical issues (e.g. hind gut, tho saddle and back pronounced good) but it's not my call to investigate them.

Any thoughts welcome! A pint of G&T is on offer - think anyone who's got this far deserves it!
 

kerilli

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tbh i would suspect that there is a physical reason somewhere. e.g. i'd want him scoped for ulcers for starters.
it's no fun riding a horse who isn't happy to go forward and work for you. you're not being wimpy, you're being smart.
i don't think he's 'learning this stuff', personally... i think he's reacting to something. the fact that he's doing worse things now than he did before, in response to the same triggers as before, makes me believe it's prob physical. usually horses improve... they get braver, they realise the plastic bag in the hedge isn't going to kill them, yadda yadda. he could have done these things before, but he didn't. why is he doing them now? (all horses know how to really use their bodies in all sorts of ways, for and against you if necessary, i don't think they're newly learned bad behaviours...)
if it was me i would take the pressure off, get him happy in his work, try to get his hind gut problems resolved (coligone? etc) and then very gradually and nicely ask a question again.
 

Lolo

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I wonder if, as he's being asked to work more and pushed through his tantrums, something's hurting him and because he keeps being pushed through it's beginning to hurt all the time?

Trouble is, if he's always been a bit 'make me' even when he's fine then now he's nt happy his reaction is being taken as another excuse?
 

Burnttoast

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Thanks for reply - no, I don't. I've no desire to walk away atm - the horse doesn't have a malicious bone in his body. I will stop riding him if I deem it prudent because I'm a freelance and have no other support, but he's nowhere near chucking me off yet and if I don't hack him no one will. I'm just wondering if I'm being terribly soft and 'unpro' in thinking that having major arguments in order to 'see it through' is not the way to go with some horses.
 

Lolo

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Thanks for reply - no, I don't. I've no desire to walk away atm - the horse doesn't have a malicious bone in his body. I will stop riding him if I deem it prudent because I'm a freelance and have no other support, but he's nowhere near chucking me off yet and if I don't hack him no one will. I'm just wondering if I'm being terribly soft and 'unpro' in thinking that having major arguments in order to 'see it through' is not the way to go with some horses.

Can you message me the name of the instructor? We're in the same area!
 

Burnttoast

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tbh i would suspect that there is a physical reason somewhere. e.g. i'd want him scoped for ulcers for starters.
it's no fun riding a horse who isn't happy to go forward and work for you. you're not being wimpy, you're being smart.
i don't think he's 'learning this stuff', personally... i think he's reacting to something. the fact that he's doing worse things now than he did before, in response to the same triggers as before, makes me believe it's prob physical. usually horses improve... they get braver, they realise the plastic bag in the hedge isn't going to kill them, yadda yadda. he could have done these things before, but he didn't. why is he doing them now? (all horses know how to really use their bodies in all sorts of ways, for and against you if necessary, i don't think they're newly learned bad behaviours...)
if it was me i would take the pressure off, get him happy in his work, try to get his hind gut problems resolved (coligone? etc) and then very gradually and nicely ask a question again.

I wonder if, as he's being asked to work more and pushed through his tantrums, something's hurting him and because he keeps being pushed through it's beginning to hurt all the time?

Trouble is, if he's always been a bit 'make me' even when he's fine then now he's nt happy his reaction is being taken as another excuse?

Yes, I do think there's a physical issue, possibly a longstanding one, but I don't think that his pain is worse, per se, simply that it's more of an issue now he's working harder - does that make sense? The spookiness and backward thinking/resistance to leg have been issues since I've known him (2 years ish) but for lack of transport/saddle issues etc we have not been able to do much until end of last year. Now the ante has been upped in work terms and he is objecting particularly to being straightened. He has slightly bullnosed feet all round - whether this is also an issue (linked to hind gut, maybe) in terms of the angles of the bones in his feet and his ability to push, isn't clear.

I wondered about the 'learning' simply because he would never have done this before out hacking, he'd just spin and spook and goggle and go on again and now he does exactly what he does in lessons to escape the unwanted pressure of going past a scary thing. I don't put a lot of pressure on out hacking because it's his chill time - just some mini leg yields and on-and-back in the trot, and in general he is much more forward and willing than a year ago - hence my not wanting this to become a major issue.

My worry about having him scoped is that if he is clear (as every horse on the yard that has been scoped for behavioural reasons has been:rolleyes:) it will be dismissed, whereas the problem may be further back. I'd rather he was treated speculatively (hence RiteTrak, tho the expense :eek:)

I will see what I can do to gently encourage a bit of backing off of pressure. Already been burnt once this year (elsewhere) for for having an opinion, tho, so will get my kid gloves out!
 
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