Sell her or persist - can't take much more

[katelarge]

Hey all,

Well, as per the title, really. Bought a rising five mare two years ago, knowing she was a bit tricky to lead/in hand, but she had a great jump, was fab to hack and her flatwork really improved. Everything was OK until about 14 months ago, she spent some time on an event yard and started barging out of her stable. She also got much sharper and threw me, so I moved her to a yard I knew.

Everything was fine there until Xmas 09 and the big freeze. Having had some time off before, I was used to just chucking a saddle on her after a layoff, with no problems. But since January, I have had to deal with a monster. I have not been able to ride her in the school without her nearly ditching me. We can go for short hacks in a stright line (as long as she sees nothing). Anything above walk is a no-no.

Thinking this behaviour had been triggered by lack of turnout, I've now moved her to a gorgeous yard with loads of turnout - and she is even worse. I can only lead her in a bridle, and even then it gets scary. Then tonight she started running away from me when I put her from her bridle into a headcollar for a short time - then she started the barging out of the stable thing. Three times.

I ended the night - all I was doing was trying to get her to go into her stable and not barge out run me over - with my left hand dripping blood from a cut. I should add that the stable is massive and airy, she had food in there, and there were other horses on the yard.

Simply put, I have had enough. I understand this yard is new to her but the behaviour is getting worse, and now dangerous.
I have a back condition which means that being knocked or jarred can prolapse a disc and I just have had enough of being dragged about and frightened. It's possible that retraining might help, but seeing as I can't even get her to walk into a stable and stay there I just feel hopeless.

It's possible that somebody I know may take her, and I have to make the decision: do I try and persist with this horse - who frightens me and who I frankly don't even like any more - or just find a new home? I am gutted: I just want my horse back, and not to be knoacked about by this strange bully.

 

[HollyWoozle]

Personally, given the situation with your health and the fact that she frightens you, I would say to let her go to someone else. Could you maybe try putting her out on loan for a while to give you some thinking time? Perhaps she is just thoroughly annoyed by this silly weather, like most of us!

At the end of the day, riding (for most of us) is a nice activity. It has its ups and downs like anything, but I really think of you are afraid, miserable about it and fearful for your health that the best thing is to move on. You could either loan her out or sell her and get one calmer and easier to handle. Though I do know it's not that simple!

Whatever you decided to do, I hope it works out for you.

 

[V1NN]

could you possibly put her somewhere to be re trained? if not then i think if you feel you cant cope i'd be very tempted to sell especially if you think someone you know may be interested, you've done well for 2 years maybe she is just not the horse for you? i have a similar story my previous mare i loved but we were just not a good match i ended up selling her even although it upset me a lot. x

 

[katelarge]

I doubt I would get anyone to loan her, as she's not safe to ride or lead. I might just about be able to get her in to the school and show her paces in there, amidst a lot of mad galloping. As I said, there is one possibility that might take her as is, knowing her problems - oddly, she loads and travels like a saint!

Otherwise, I will have to put her on sales livery with a professional who can take her in hand to be the point where she would be saleable - or put her on project horses (shudder)...

 

[cellie]

Would it be worth taking her to a pro for re educating to see if you can get your old horse back.They are all sharp at the moment someone told me spring is on the way.
Have you considered her feed maybe she needs something different if her workload has changed.

 

[Stinkywellies]

Poor you, not a nice situation to be in. However, reading your post i think you have almost made your decision? I would say life is too short and they are meant to be our fun hobby. If you are not enjoying her and it sounds like she is hard to handle and to ride i would say let her go to someone else. You can always get something else that is more suitable for you.

Don't beat yourself up over it tho, it is not worth risking you health. I have just sold my mare as i had back surgery at the end of last year and it is just too painful to ride and she is young and needs to go on and have fun so i have let her go as hard as the decision was i know it was the right one for her.

The right horse will be out there for you

. Keep your chin up and good luck with whatever you decided

 

[miss_bird]

At the end of the day this is meant to be fun and at the moment you are scared of your horse and you are at the point of endangering your health with this horse.
So you can either loan her out to someone who will take charge of her, or sell her.
But i think you have no choice for the sake of your back to move on from this horse and find a horse you trust, are safe with and can enjoy again.
Sorry if i am too blunt

 

[katelarge]

I have looked into professional help - someone like Richard Maxwell is £300 a day for him to come out, which I can't afford. And re-training livery of that ilk is REALLY expensive: £150-plus per week. I suppose if I can't get anyone to take her then that will have to be a last resort, just to get her rideable and handleable to the point where she could be sold - though she'd never fetch anything more than a nominal amount, so I'd be severely out of pocket at a time when I am already skint!

 

[WandaMare]

If its any consolation she is at a typical age for this type of testing behaviour. She is maturing and challenging the hierarchy and needs to learn exactly where her place is. I have owned 3 horses from a young age and all of them have been at their most difficult at 6/7. I guess in the herd they would be changing from youngster to adult and challenging the herd leaders. Could you try getting a freelance rider in to really work her really hard a couple of times a week, thats what I do when I feel out of my depth. I'm doing it now with a mare who is just pushing me and needs someone a bit stronger to show her how to behave. It might be worth trying this before making the big decision to sell her on. Good luck with her

 

[katelarge]

Hey, don't worry about being blunt, it's fine!! The thing is I feel that if I give up with her I really will give up. It has taken all the fun out of it, so I'be selling and giving up entirely for good. Which is really, really sad, after 30 years.

 

[katelarge]

Thank you WandaMare! I do have access to a professional rider so could try that route. I am utterly puzzled as to why my mouse of a five year-old has turned into the demon (rising) seven year-old, but that fits!

She is a real Alpha mare and I think her "wild" instincts are just becoming too much. She ignores humans totally whenever possible and is utterly fixated on other horses - if one leaves the yard to be ridden, the hysterics start and you'd be better be out of the way.

 

[Gingerwitch]

She is young - has has a few significant changes in the last few weeks - spring is just around the corner - she could be having a stressfull first season - she is out of routine - you are scared of her - she knows your scared but not quite sure what of.

You have 2 choices - move her on or grit your teeth and deal with her. Personally given your bad back - i would not have brought a youngster at all or anything that was on the spirited side. You need to look after yourself and stop beating yourself up about it. The alternative is to send her away for a few months - but thats change again but it may give you a breather and give you time to miss her

Good luck

 

[katelarge]

Cellie - spot on. I was planning on changing her feed (low sugar and starch) and would already have done so had I been able to locate a local supplier.

As for the "spring is around the corner" thing - by then I'll be a bloody pulp!

 

[katelarge]

Hey Gingerwitch - the thing is, although I already had a bit of sore back, the problem was massively aggravated by an accident I had not long after buying her...

 

[Gingerwitch]

Caismum - poor you - sorry to hear about your accident after you brought her - it can happen to anyone.

 

[katelarge]

Thanks! It did rather put the cat among the proverbials - there I was signed off with a youngster to ride! I guess maybe it was just never meant to be...

 

[Louby]

After struggling with my horse .... and still struggling at times I would take the offer up of selling her on before things get even worse and you end up seriously injured. Its so hard as I had the opportunity but just couldnt do it but my horse sounds nothing like yours.
Good luck I feel for you.

 

[vieshot]

where are you based, may be someone on here nearby who can help?

 

[katelarge]

Leicestershire. Thanks, vieshot!

 

[emmanash]

It sounds to me like she really doesn't respect you at all at the minute. I don't know if you might have someone similar in your area but I had a lady out from Intelligent Horsemanship because my mare was barging straight through me and not paying any attention to me. She was very reasonable and charged £20 for the visit. You mentioned Richard Maxwell so didn't know if this might be something else to look into?
She sounds like she needs to start respecting you and to see you as her leader rather than fretting about what's going on elsewhere with the other horses.
Of course it's not worth putting your safety at risk at the end of the day. Is she a big girl? If she's throwing her weight around it can't be nice. I had trouble with my girl and she's a featherweight 15hh mare.
Good luck with her and i'm sure you'll come to the right descision x

 

[Bri]

Really sorry to hear about the trouble you're having.

Just a thought but have you had her checked by vet? I know of someone who had similar problems and was discovered horse had cysts on her ovaries I think, which were causing all kind of behavioural problems. Might be worth looking into if behaviour seems to have no other cause.

 

[katelarge]

You're dead right. If she sees something that catches her eye she will wrench my arm round to goggle at it, she will just set off walking towards something that catches her eye, and I have to pull her up. I have taught her to back up and move over, and can do both, but it doesn't stop her barging. She will do barge - backup - barge - backup. But still barge!

BTW I should add that she is also on a calmer.

 

[swellhillcottage]

Is she doing enough work wise ? Sounds to me like she could be a bit full of herself - Is she just walking when being ridden and getting no other exercise ? Are you able to lunge her or get some one else to - i assume she is getting turn out as well ?
TBH with behaviour like that would you be able to get a decent price for her ? Lots of hugs for you but you sound like you need Proffesional horsey help !

Sharonxx

 

[Pearlsasinger]

[ QUOTE ]
Cellie - spot on. I was planning on changing her feed (low sugar and starch) and would already have done so had I been able to locate a local supplier.

As for the "spring is around the corner" thing - by then I'll be a bloody pulp!

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case it would probably be best to just stop all feed except grass/hay/haylage. Cut out all supplements as well. If the feed is the problem, you will soon see the difference, We had a mare, bought as a rising 4 yr old, with problems many years ago, who was almost unhandleable by the age of 12, even though she was basically very nice natured and affectionate. For various reasons, we stopped all hard feed and for the first 3 days, she was like a drug addict going 'cold turkey' She had to be coaxed out of the stable even though her best friend had already gone out, normally she would not stop in on her own. After the 3 days she was back to her original sweet self. We had not realised what an effect feed was having on her but never fed her sugar/cereal again. Unfortunately we could never guarantee that passers-by hadn't fed her, so she never fulfilled her early promise.

 

[katelarge]

She is getting about eight hours turnout, so loads for the time of year. I had been able to ride her (under her rules) at her former yard when she was a little calmer, but couldn't even think of attempting it at the minute, or putting anyone else in that position, unless they were certain they would be OK.

I think the key to it all lies in somehow getting her stress/anxious responses down and her manners sorted. She is getting more turnout than ever, a lovely big stable, and these escapes have been when there are other horses on the yard. There's no way she could ever be left in on her own.

Being practical, I am probably stuck with her for a while. Hopefully it won't be long, but in the meantime I can try a few different things like feed. If she persists in intimidating and injuring me I will just have to ask for all handling to be done by the yard and I will do the chores... what a joke.

 

[Izzwizz]

Have you tried using a pressure halter or something like the Monty Roberts Dually which works by putting pressure on the nose I believe.? It does sound from what Ive read like a mixture of things : Spring, hormonal, changes in her life. I would cut all feed as above, sounds like she doesnt need any, and get her checked out by a vet as suggested above for checks on her girly bits. At least you will know that you have done everything you can to get to the root of this problem I have had 3 mares and all very different. The youngest one tried it on with me at 5yrs old but she turned out a cracker and tbh the closest bonds I have had have been with the girls. I think when you get that bond theres nothing quite like it. I hope you make progress and it works out for you, such a shame when things have been good in the past.

Good luck!!!

 

[wizbit]

Id get someone else to take her on. Although you say you bought her knowing she was tricky to lead in hand?
It sounds like whatever happened at the event yard she was at has p'd her off. Also the time she was there she was not bonding with you, therefore will not just suddenly trust you when she comes out (unless super honest

) Also Id expect a horse thats been on an event yard to come out fit and sharp, competition fit horses arent going to be completely easy. Sounds like you need time to get a trusting relationship, at the minute she hasnt got a leader so she is taking matters into her own hands and being her own leader.
It can be overcome, but i disagree with sending a horse away for schooling, we recieve so many horses for schooling which are fine with us, but as soon as they get home "play up" again as they no longer have a leader/kept thinking.
Seeing as you have a back condition also id say give her to someone else rather than jeapordise yr health further. whatever you decide though good luck

 

[noblesteed]

I've got a gelding who can be a sod to deal with, though not as extreme as your mare but I do have the injuries to prove it!

I have seen much improvement in him by completely changing his management -
He was on VERY rich haylage, now on soaked hay.
He is fed 1/2 scoop of Cool Fibre twice a day and thats ALL.
He wears minimum rugs.
I moved him from a busy livery yard to a private yard (1 other horse)
He is turned out all day in a huge field.
His work is more varied with LOTS of long hacks - not just dressage as we were doing.

If you haven't tried all of the above, they may help, along with the other suggestions people have made. I have sacrificed having a floodlit school and benefits of a competition yard but my horse is much more manageable and far less stressed, less obsessed with other horses etc. We can now hack alone, we have had no spooks, spins, bolting, bucking, and we are able to attend RC without injuries! He IS still bargy - this is something I need to learn to deal with and I am currently in the process of finding a groundwork teacher to help me, though what I have learned from books has helped me a lot.

Hope that helps. I know how you feel, I have been very close to selling my horse and giving up completely but - fingers crossed - I think I may have almost cracked it with him.

Good luck. Noone will blame you if you do decide to sell.

 

[Zebedee]

What do you do to try & stop her barging past you?

 

[KingCharles]

she sounds very defensive is there a chance someoen has given her a good beating in her stable when you where not there?

I agree that also she coudl be in pain somewhere and her behaviour is becasue she is aggrivated and has lost trust in humans.

If you are scared of her she will pick up on this and she will not settle with you.

She needs a leader, someone who is firm but fair and not afraid of her. I dont think more ridden work is the way forward here, I think you need to strip everythign down right back to basics. Ger her a full health check and then find a way to turn her away for a while to settle down. Somewhere quiet. She needs to be handled by one person who is experieced with dominance in horses, and she needs consitancy. Once she realises that no one is out to hurt her, and she is settled she may eventually calm down.

It coudl also be possible that she has a neck injury, witch is why she finds leading and bending uncomfortable. It dosnt take much to injure a horses neck if they are constantly messing roudn on the end of a rope and getting pulled all over the place trying to get away.

This is the type of horse i would take on and work with, and have done in the past. So there are people out there that would not be put off by this behaviour. I agree she needs a leader, she needs direction and this will help boost her confidence.