Selling a horse who bucks

[Mouseychoc]

Hi all,

I'm currently advertising my 5yr old who has had a few people (including myself) off with her occasional broncing sessions when you first get on. I've been fairly open in the advert and ask people who are interested to call me so I can explain what she does before they come to ride. I've now had 3 people who were really keen on her - 2 rode her and fell in love - but when they ask whether she moves forward while bucking, and I say no, she stands on the spot, they say they're no longer interested.

Is there any significance to the fact she stands still? Does this make her unridable for some reason compared to a horse that moves forward while bucking?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[be positive]

I would say if she bucked on the move you could put it down to high spirits, naughtiness, greenness and a decent rider could probably ride her out of it and get over the bucking, that she does it stood still when you have just got on is more of a concern as it is likely to be a reaction to pain, a sign of ulcers, kissing spine, maybe just a badly fitting saddle combined with a sore back but probably not worth risking it.
Have you looked into it yourself? to be fair to her and give you a better chance of selling to a good home it would be worth getting the vet out, hopefully you are insured as it can prove an expensive process of elimination to get to the root of what is causing it, which is why the people are not going ahead with the purchase as they will not be covered by any insurance due to it being a long standing condition from before they purchased her.

 

[Mouseychoc]

Hi,

Thanks very much for the reply.

Perhaps I should mention to people then that I've had 3 vets, a chiropractor and a master of saddlers fitter all say they think it's a behavioural issue. The vets say it would be unlikely to be pain as she only does it occasionally and not each time she's mounted. She's the sweetest horse in all other aspects and pretty bomb proof too once you're actually on so it's an absolutely heart breaking sale but I just can't ride her if I don't know when she'll do it!

Thanks again.

 

[JennBags]

If you can't ride her because you don't know when she'll do it, how do you expect to sell her to someone else? There are loads of good horses out there, why would anyone buy a known bucker?

 

[twiggy2]

Hi,

Thanks very much for the reply.

Perhaps I should mention to people then that I've had 3 vets, a chiropractor and a master of saddlers fitter all say they think it's a behavioural issue. The vets say it would be unlikely to be pain as she only does it occasionally and not each time she's mounted. She's the sweetest horse in all other aspects and pretty bomb proof too once you're actually on so it's an absolutely heart breaking sale but I just can't ride her if I don't know when she'll do it!

Thanks again.

a 'master of saddlers' sorry OP that made me laugh.

 

[Mouseychoc]

Well, u know what I mean

 

[PaddyMonty]

Is the bucking related to her coming in to season by any chance?

 

[Mouseychoc]

If you can't ride her because you don't know when she'll do it, how do you expect to sell her to someone else? There are loads of good horses out there, why would anyone buy a known bucker?

Because other, more confident and more experienced riders than me don't seem to have an issue with it and if you can pull her up out of it she's a really good ride. Like I said in my original post, I've been honest with people and she's already been tried out twice.

 

[Princess Rosie]

If you've had everything checked what about trying some more things before you sell her (not sure of your circumstances), what about looking to see if there's a Monty Roberts tour near soon - easy to get your horse into the event, you just email them from the tour website and get them worked by Monty, otherwise what about going online to look for your local intelligent horsemanship associate? It's worth seeing whether they can help her. Their services are free (apart from fuel costs usually) and they are amazingly helpful. Might just give your mare a fighting chance of ending up in the right home rather than possibly being passed from pillar to post. Best of luck x

 

[Mouseychoc]

Is the bucking related to her coming in to season by any chance?

She's done it alt all times of the year though so I don't think so.

 

[Mouseychoc]

If you've had everything checked what about trying some more things before you sell her (not sure of your circumstances), what about looking to see if there's a Monty Roberts tour near soon - easy to get your horse into the event, you just email them from the tour website and get them worked by Monty, otherwise what about going online to look for your local intelligent horsemanship associate? It's worth seeing whether they can help her. Their services are free (apart from fuel costs usually) and they are amazingly helpful. Might just give your mare a fighting chance of ending up in the right home rather than possibly being passed from pillar to post. Best of luck x

Thanks, I am a member of IH but because she does it so infrequently I doubt a roadshow demo would be any help. Monty would probably just end up going for a nice plod around on a horse that would suit RDA if she didn't do it!!

I've thought about having lessons with them too but I just don't have the bottle to mount her again. I'd need to pay for the lessons and for someone else to ride her which just seems silly I suppose.

If I keep having the same response to my advert though that is always an option. I think I'd need to have some more riding lessons on another horse as well if I did that.

 

[webble]

She's done it alt all times of the year though so I don't think so.

If she has a hormonal or ovary issue then she could be in season or in pain all year round. especially with the mild winter we just had. I would get her scanned and bloods taken to rule a problem out

 

[old hand]

I had a horse that did this. it is the saddle. had three saddlers , one a master saddler, and the third found it. the saddle moved slightly when you mounted. found one with a wider channel and high cut back head and the problem was solved. try getting on bareback, if the horse doesn't do it then it is the saddle regardless of what the saddler says. its easier to swing off quickly if you are bareback. the horse had a very long wither and it impinged where you can't see under the rider. also check the gullet of the saddle doesn't narrow in the middle, many do. If you don't want to do this yourself or are not confident find someone young and agile!

 

[Mouseychoc]

I had a horse that did this. it is the saddle. had three saddlers , one a master saddler, and the third found it. the saddle moved slightly when you mounted. found one with a wider channel and high cut back head and the problem was solved. try getting on bareback, if the horse doesn't do it then it is the saddle regardless of what the saddler says. its easier to swing off quickly if you are bareback. the horse had a very long wither and it impinged where you can't see under the rider. also check the gullet of the saddle doesn't narrow in the middle, many do. If you don't want to do this yourself or are not confident find someone young and agile!

Thanks, the first time she did it (with me anyway) was when I rode bareback and I didn't manage to swing off and instead landed in a heap with a broken arm and back hence I'm so worried about getting back on! The saddler did say she is very flat backed though so I've got her a wider gullet. Perhaps the bareback incident was a red herring?

She also doesn't tend to do it with the 'young and agile' so I'm not sure if it's me being unbalanced or something making her feel uncomfortable.

Thanks for your advice

 

[PaddyMonty]

She also doesn't tend to do it with the 'young and agile' so I'm not sure if it's me being unbalanced or something making her feel uncomfortable.

You don't actually say but I'm assuming she does this as soon as you get on before moving away from mounting block?

 

[Mouseychoc]

You don't actually say but I'm assuming she does this as soon as you get on before moving away from mounting block?

Yes, or sometimes as someone is getting on after just putting their foot in the stirrup. Although the last time she did it, she was fine until the rider put their leg on.

 

[Mouseychoc]

If she has a hormonal or ovary issue then she could be in season or in pain all year round. especially with the mild winter we just had. I would get her scanned and bloods taken to rule a problem out

Ok, I wonder why the vets didn't mention this then. I'll maybe ask for a few more tests.

 

[puppystitch]

I used to ride a horse who was very ticklish across his flanks, I had to be quite precise getting on as a brush of my leg / schooling whip / undone jacket could cause him to shoot forward. Could it be anything like that? That might explain the apparent randomness of the bucking. He was fine around the girth, but if the rider's leg swung too far back he'd shoot off. It didn't show up when grooming - he was completely fine with being touched all over, it was just whilst being ridden. He'd do it whilst jumping too, if the rider's leg swung back going over a jump he'd dash off on landing.

 

[bakewell]

You may have made your mind up to sell her already, and your trust in her may be irreparably damaged.
BUT!
if it's not, consider trying a western saddle, the second girth/ cinch can make them feel much more secure to the horse. Also the are so secure for the rider and give a lot of confidence. Admittedly they can limit the disciplines you do but they are absolutely great. I would recommend them for anyone with balance or skeletal issues that prevent a square seat.
May not be any help but is worth a go. And if you find it stops the issue "ridden in a western saddle" explained sounds a lot better than unpredictable bucker.

 

[Mouseychoc]

You may have made your mind up to sell her already, and your trust in her may be irreparably damaged.
BUT!
if it's not, consider trying a western saddle, the second girth/ cinch can make them feel much more secure to the horse. Also the are so secure for the rider and give a lot of confidence. Admittedly they can limit the disciplines you do but they are absolutely great. I would recommend them for anyone with balance or skeletal issues that prevent a square seat.
May not be any help but is worth a go. And if you find it stops the issue "ridden in a western saddle" explained sounds a lot better than unpredictable bucker.

That is true, it does sound a lot better. I have ridden western previously and found it far more comfortable but when I asked the saddler about them she said they may not be wide enough in the gullet for her. She also doesn't stock them because she said they tend to be designed with the rider's comfort in mind rather than the horse's.

A colleague of mine rides western though and said you can get a cheap western saddle from Australia/South Africa so I could try that maybe. Would it mean I was in a better position to sit the bucks if I did ride in one and it didn't work do you reckon?

Thanks for your advice

 

[Mouseychoc]

I used to ride a horse who was very ticklish across his flanks, I had to be quite precise getting on as a brush of my leg / schooling whip]

People have suggested that she could be ticklish before but I don't understand how it wouldn't show all the time. When people get on, they do so very carefully (because of her history) and don't carry a whip or have anything that could set her off so I don't really understand it.

She had some remedial training last year where the person literally spent weeks just getting on and off to desensitise her which seems to now mean that you can get on fine but sometimes she'll take off bronking once your're on and you ask for walk.

My instructor suggested that it might work if we kept getting on and then asking for a few strides of walk over and over but she doesn't have the time and I don't have the nerve/expertise to deal with the times she does bronk.

My hope for selling her is that she'll go to someone who can do these sorts of things and try them out without the fear that I have. I'm sure something will work and then she'll be a perfect horse all the time.

 

[bakewell]

I asked the saddler about them she said they may not be wide enough in the gullet for her. She also doesn't stock them because she said they tend to be designed with the rider's comfort in mind rather than the horse's.

Have you seen how wide some quarter horses are! They are available in especially wide/ wide gulleted versions. We used them on draft horses and no problems there. Ours came from here: http://www.wyomingsaddlery.com/draft-horse-and-friesian-saddles/
I also sometimes use them on round spanish type horses. I would either buy a good quality one, or a good quality one second hand (probably the latter, it's still worth the same after and they tend to fit a broader corss section of horses)

There can be good ones and bad ones, they are more universally comfortable for humans. I understand if the saddler is less familiar with western tack. Draft forums in the states often have second hand draft/ similar shaped ones for good prices too.

I think it would absolutely put you in a better position for riding bucks (in a worst case scenario). And you have the horn to hang on to! You have to try pretty hard to come out of a western saddle IMO. I don't have direct experience with australian style stock saddles so can't comment on that I'm afraid.
My mother used to recommend them for RDA with certain riders.

I think if it could put a more positive slant on your mare, or repair your relationship with her, it's worth a go. I know I can't go an buy a XW 17.5 saddle for my spanish style horse and expect it to be good for him even though it's the right size... he's just not an english tack style shape. He'd be polite about the "sorry, this just isn't working for me" but I wouldn't expect to get a decent tune out of him wearing one and he might give me a dirty look afterwards!

 

[bakewell]

I have ridden western previously and found it far more comfortable

I also think you're not giving this enough attention. Yes the horse has to be comfortable but even if you're subconsciously adjusting to compensate that throws everything off. It also means your horse can develop an asymmetry or flexion to compensate that may not be immediate obvious. You must be comfortable and secure in order to relax. Being tense... being uncomfortable... being unhappy. Seems like you and your mare are on the same page; give yourself a physical break here.
Think about lifting a sack of feed onto one shoulder and then walking with it. You might need to adjust it a bit at that point.

 

[Mouseychoc]

I also think you're not giving this enough attention.

I agree, it's worth looking into. I'll see if there's a western saddle fitter nearby that can at least come and have a look at her.

Thanks

 

[vonno]

Hi,
Here's a list of western saddle fitters/suppliers:
http://westernhorseuk.com/directory/departments/saddlefitting/
Agree with Bakewell, get a quality second hand saddle rather than a 'cheap' one, and they are available in extra wide.

 

[Red-1]

I would have to go against the grain here..... Your horse threw you off, and you broke your arm and back? Your horse still bucks and you are not able to sit it? You do not feel confident to get back on?

I don't blame you!

I have helped two people who have broken their backs back to riding, to a good level and jumping etc, but, we had to be VERY careful what they rode until they were back to it. In fact they both had different riding styles afterwards, and I am not sure I would want them sorting out a bucking habit even a few years later. Not that they can't sit the odd high spiritited buck, but not a problem horse, no.

Life is too short. I commend you for being so honest in you dealings with people. Someone may buy your horse, mine was a habitual rearer when I got him. I presume you are not asking much ££££s. The trouble may be that my horse was a high octane comp horse, so he attracted a competition rider who was well able and interested in working through the problem. It may be harder to expect a rider to take on a more cold blood horse with this problem, as even if it cured they cannot in all honesty sell it as a novice ride, and most more experienced people want a horse that can do comps. Not all though, and you could still find someone.

If not, then it may be worth investing in training with a pro used to dealing with this problem, with a view to training to sell. The training could cost more then the sale price for the horse though, or you could spend a lot of money and still not sell your horse. You may well get the satisfaction of seeing your horse "cured", and if so, who knows? You MAY feel safe to ride it yourself.

It seems you have done the saddle, back, teeth, and as one bronc was bareback then this was likely not a saddle issue.

If all that does not work, then you have a choice to PTS, sad though that is. Better that than sold down the road to an uncertain future if you cannot find a good home.

 

[L&M]

Totally agree with above - pay the money to have professional help - if that doesn't resolve it, and it is definitely not pain based, resign yourself to having a field 'ornament', or pts if you want to replace the horse.

If I went to view a horse for sale and the owner refused to get on it, there is no way in hell I would, especially if I found out you had broken your back on it!

Sorry to sound harsh but there are already too many rideable horses out there that can't find homes, and although I sympathise with your situation, think you need a reality check tbh.