Selling a horse with a 'condition attached'

[plumpie]

I am selling my horse for below 'market value' to what I believe will be a really lovely long term local home. But I also want to safeguard him, and I want to sell him with the condition attached that if the buyer ever wishes to sell him, I get first refusal, at the price I sold him to them for (assuming at that time he is still well and sound, otherwise we would negotiate a lower price based on what the problem was.)

My horse is currently in his prime and is being sold fit and sound (he's had limb and back xrays prior to the sale, and all were flawless) and in my opinion he is currently competing at the height of his physical capability, so there isn't going to be the complication of the new owner 'bringing him on' to increase his worth in the future)

So, any ideas on wording for this type of contract? Has anyone else done this but had a problem? If I get the buyer to sign it, is it really legally binding, or could they sell him on without my knowledge for £0000s more in a months time and would I be powerless to do anything?

 

[AmyMay]

Not worth the paper it's written on, unfortunately.

Just keep the horse.

 

[plumpie]

Oh ******. Thanks for your reply though! x

 

[Meowy Catkin]

If you want to keep control of the horse's future, then you need to loan, not sell.

 

[Arizahn]

If you want to keep control of the horse's future, then you need to loan, not sell.

This, I'm afraid. Once they are sold, they are gone

 

[EmmaC78]

I agree it would be very difficult and expensive to enforce such an agreement. In the end any person they have sold the horse on to in the future would not owe any obligation to you directly so I think you would really struggle to get the horse back.

 

[be positive]

As already said it is not enforceable but you can appeal to their better nature, if he goes up in value, he may even if not expected to as he could find another job that makes him worth more, a brilliant hunter may be of higher value than a limited competition horse to the right person, there will be nothing to stop them selling for the higher price and if you have sold below market value why should the next person not sell for his true value if for some reason they have to sell.

I would ask if they will stay in touch, that you would like first refusal if for any reason he has to be sold and hope they honour it, I sold a livery earlier this year and said much the same, the buyers took it really well and have kept in touch, I think he will be there forever but as he was very special I wanted them to know he could come back at any time for any reason, I couldn't buy him at the time and he needed to go on to do a job rather than semi retire with me.

 

[McFluff]

I bought my horse on this sort of agreement (made verbally, as we both know it would be difficult to enforce). I was happy to agree as she has a home for life with me, and I have a safety net incase the worst happens. So you could be lucky, depends on the buyer really.

 

[Dry Rot]

Such conditions sometimes used to be applied to the sale of land (but may not be today?), but not sure if it can be applied to other property, such as a horse. Also, again, conditions might be put on the use of a property when sold, for example restricted to occupancy by an agricultural worker. I do know this because I purchased such a property after persuading the original seller to lift a restrictive condition! The owners had to offer it back to the original seller to have the condition lifted. It might be worth having a word with your solicitor. Personally, I cannot think of any reason why A should not sell a horse to B on condition that, if they ever want to sell it, it would first be offered to A at the market price. Does anyone here know for sure? My contract law is a bit rusty.

What is PREEMPTION RIGHT?
A right/ advantage given out to the present stock holders, allowing them to gain the first option in case a house or property is being sold. It can also mean a right set in contracts, allowing a party go gain the first opportunity for purchasing a property or article, before it is put up for sale.

Law Dictionary: What is PREEMPTION RIGHT? definition of PREEMPTION RIGHT (Black's Law Dictionary)

 

[Sheep]

Even if it was enforceable, I can't imagine many agreeing to it. As others have said, if you want to control the situation then loan, or if the horse is a good competition horse, lease him.

 

[Tinypony]

We've had threads on here too many times where people have tried to do this, then got upset because the horse was sold on without them being given first refusal. They were all heartbroken but it seemed pretty clear that their agreements to have first refusal were worth nothing.
If you're going to sell a horse it's safest to assume you'll lose all contact and all control over their future. Then anything else would be a bonus.

 

[Goldenstar]

I was presented with an agreement identical to the one you describe when I arrived to pick up one of mine.
I said I was happy to sign something to say I would give them the first chance to buy the horse if I decided to pass it on but why on earth would I sell back at the price I had paid for it If say the horse turned into a star and you needed to sell why on earth would anyone be in a position where you had to sell back to the old owner at the price you paid years before after you had spent the time money and effort making the horse Into what it was, the first owner could then sell it on and make a profit.
In truth my father ( retired solicitor ) said it extremely unlikely you could enforce it .
Your proposal is unfair as well unenforceable .

 

[Dizzy socks]

We have agreed first refusal on my old pony. I'm fairly confident that they'll come back to us, and if not, we don't think we'll lose track of him, and hopefully get him at the home after that, or whatever.

But then, they're lovely people, and we've been to visit him a good few times, and am confident that is they forgot about first refusal, they would ensure he went to a good home.

We only really want him back for when he retires though.

 

[Primitive Pony]

This doesn't really answer your question, but saw this article yesterday...

'Top showjumping horse was sold for one euro'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29058569

 

[Princess Rosie]

You can't enforce this, I know from personal experience letting a beloved horse go for a fraction of his value to a "forever home", she sold him on very swiftly for a huge profit. I would hate anyone to have to endure what we did trying to find him and thank god he is now in an amazing home. Loan with a thorough agreement drafted and signed is the only way that you will retain any control over his future. Best of luck. X

 

[Orangehorse]

But this does sometimes happen - often you do see that a top class horse, sold abroad maybe, returns to the old owner once its competition days are over.

OP, I think all you can do is appeal to their better nature, and perhaps put something down in writing so you both have a copy, but once the horse is sold you can't really dictate what happens to it.

The worst thing is where someone lets a horse go to what they believe is a good long term family home, and often for less than its true market value, only to find the horse at a local sale in 6 months time, or to hear that they sold the horse on in a short time for 10x what they paid for it!

 

[JillA]

I have done it twice- sold rescues who I had to buy to get them out of trouble and I honestly couldn't write off the cost. I worded it as a covenant, in theory I could have sued for breach of covenant if necessary but it would have been expensive. Both buyers were responsible enough and respected the covenant enough to abide by it. I didn't buy the horses back but was made aware of them being sold on and was able to help find them another nice home.
Lots of people would take it seriously and abide by it, and I suspect those who wouldn't would never agree to it in the first place, if you trust your instinct and try and weed out the unscrupulous chancers when finding a buyer.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Sadly being on this forum makes you realise that people will say all the right things and move heaven and earth to get the horse, then as soon as it's theirs, put it up for sale at a huge profit (does anyone remember the dressage horse that happened to?).

I stand by my earlier post. If you want to regain control of the horse's future loan, don't sell. Even then you need a watertight loan agreement (see missing horses on loan for advice) and you do need to keep tabs on the horse (Brujo, Tim the arab and others have been stolen whilst on loan and a lot of effort, detective work and heartache went into getting them back).

 

[ihatework]

It happens.
I'm sure in many cases both parties are honourable and it all goes smoothly.

Then there will be those examples that go wrong, and in those cases any agreement probably isn't worth the paper it's written on.

I've recently completed a complicated purchase on a competition horse I have been riding for the last 18 months. I fully intend to honour the agreement. But there has needed to be a great deal of trust from both parties.

 

[MagicMelon]

I think there's no harm putting it in but don't expect it to actually happen. I do this whenever I sell any of mine but I know its highly unlikely to happen probably just because the new owners forget about it years down the line. With one of my horses that I really wanted to make sure his future was sorted I have permanent loaned him, so he will come back to me should they want to return him. Why don't you do that?

 

[Cowpony]

If I were buying a horse I wouldn't have a problem with the bit about giving you first refusal, but I would not sign anything forcing me to sell the horse back at a specific price. Nobody can predict what value a horse will have in the future, so it's unfiar to both parties and would inevitably lead to to a lot of argument, heartache and accusations of breach of contract.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I always ask for first refusal and have bought one horse back. I only ask to help ensure the interests of the horse at the point of sale. It's been done as good will gesture, not a condition. I always stay in contact with the owners who have been happy to do so, so far, and I would expect to pay the current market price, not what I sold it for.

 

[SpringArising]

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read! If you're that concerned, keep the horse.

Telling someone they are unable to sell it on for more than they bought it for is laughable.

 

[minesadouble]

I don't think it's ridiculous at all if it's an older animal rather than something younger which potentially could go on to substantially increase it's financial value.
I have a brood mare I bought very cheaply, and her owner asked if I would give her first refusal if I ever wanted to sell. Her stock is now proving VERY successful in the show ring.
I haven't covered her for the last couple of years and will sell her back to her owner for the same peanuts I paid for her as I feel that is what is morally right.
There are still some genuine people left out there!

 

[Tobiano]

I guess we would all like to think that when we sell our horses the people who buy them are decent, will look after the horse properly and give it a good home. Some people will, definitely. But I for one don't trust myself to tell them apart from the other kind. I've been done over more than once when buying a horse, it can happen with selling as well, especially if it is cheap.

OP, if you want to be sure, can you get some reliable references from your buyers perhaps?

 

[mudmudmud]

I understand the whole first refusal thing, but if his new owner puts the work into him to increase his value I don't see how you could have the audacity to demand that she resells him to you at his current market value. There would be no way in hell I'd agree to this!

 

[gnubee]

The problem here is that you're selling for below market value. If you were asking full price and wanted first refusal at whatever price they sell for in future, it is still not really enforceable, but there is no reason why the new owner wouldn't at least try you first for chance of easy sale. A friend of mine had a similar deal in place in the past and did give old owner first refusal as agreed, albeit at a deterrently inflated price as old owners were clearly not the best option for the horse in that situation. I think without financial incentive to ignore the contract most people would act in line with the agreement even though it was not legally binding.

 

[Tinypony]

The problem is, whatever value you place on the horse you are selling in the future, whatever you get signed on a bit of paper, it isn't enforceable. So you might as well just have a chat with the new owner and hope. If there's one thing to learn from the tales of woe we have on here from time to time by ex-owners it's that if you sell your horse you lose control over it's future. If you want to be sure of their future then don't sell them.