Selling a horse with arthritis

[NoseyNag]

Hi all, I’m looking to sell my 13yo mare but unfortunately she has recently been diagnosed with low grade arthritis in her neck and hocks which have been medicated with steroids. She’s had x rays and no signs of neurological issues and also had her hind legs scanned and no issues there. The arthritis can be managed and she has never gone lame from it but obviously it is a degenerative condition and there is no way to determine how quickly or badly it will get worse.
My question is, how do you think this will affect my ability to sell her and also her price? (Home is more important to me than price but still interested in answers!)
Thanks in advance!

 

[AmyMay]

What led to her diagnosis?

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

If home is more important to you than price then I would loan her out only so you can keep an eye on her and have a say over her future. The if/when she is returned either have a retirement or grass livery that you can call at short notice whilst you organise yourself, or they may have her until the end of her life if you're lucky.

 

[NoseyNag]

What led to her diagnosis?

She bronced in the school with me and on the road which she has never done before so I had the physio and she recommended the vet who did some poor performance investigations.

 

[MuddyMonster]

When was her treatment? As I think that will be key (or would be for me). If the injections were 12 months ago say and she's not had any issues since and has returned to 'normal' workload it's arguably less of an risk for a buyer

If treatment was more recent and the horse hasn't returned to full work, then it's a bigger gamble for a buyer & a more heavily reduced price is arguably fairer.

But also I think you need to consider what is she like other than the arthritis in terms of temperament? As a mildly arthritic but really safe, steady hacking horse which is easy to do on and off the ground and can look after everyone from the owner, their OH to their best friend's five year old for pony rides is totally different prospect to a highly strung, sharp or quirky horse that is only being downgraded from competitive work due to soundness has a very different value IMHO.

 

[NoseyNag]

If home is more important to you than price then I would loan her out only so you can keep an eye on her and have a say over her future. The if/when she is returned either have a retirement or grass livery that you can call at short notice whilst you organise yourself, or they may have her until the end of her life if you're lucky.

I have considered this a lot but the problem I have is that if someone changes their mind and hands her back I won’t be able to do her. I’m only selling her due to a change in personal circumstances meaning I won’t have time for her.

 

[NoseyNag]

When was her treatment? As I think that will be key (or would be for me). If the injections were 12 months ago say and she's not had any issues since and has returned to 'normal' workload it's arguably less of an risk for a buyer

If treatment was more recent and the horse hasn't returned to full work, then it's a bigger gamble for a buyer & a more heavily reduced price is arguably fairer.

But also I think you need to consider what is she like other than the arthritis in terms of temperament? As a mildly arthritic but really safe, steady hacking horse which is easy to do on and off the ground and can look after everyone from the owner, their OH to their best friend's five year old for pony rides is totally different prospect to a highly strung, sharp or quirky horse that is only being downgraded from competitive work due to soundness has a very different value IMHO.

So she is a 17hh Warmblood mare that can be quirky and does need a confident and competent rider.
The vet doesn’t think it will impact on her in the future if managed correctly but it’s obviously degenerative.
I think she would suit someone who wanted to lower level afilliated/unaffiliated dressage, chilled hacking and occasional jumping.

 

[NoseyNag]

When was her treatment? As I think that will be key (or would be for me). If the injections were 12 months ago say and she's not had any issues since and has returned to 'normal' workload it's arguably less of an risk for a buyer

If treatment was more recent and the horse hasn't returned to full work, then it's a bigger gamble for a buyer & a more heavily reduced price is arguably fairer.

But also I think you need to consider what is she like other than the arthritis in terms of temperament? As a mildly arthritic but really safe, steady hacking horse which is easy to do on and off the ground and can look after everyone from the owner, their OH to their best friend's five year old for pony rides is totally different prospect to a highly strung, sharp or quirky horse that is only being downgraded from competitive work due to soundness has a very different value IMHO.

Also, treatment was very recent. Unfortunately very bad timing with needing to sell her.

 

[gunnergundog]

If you can't ensure her future, having acknowledged it is a downward spiral, then personally I would put to sleep. Alternatively, find a loan home pro tem and then if returned unexpectedly be prepared to PTS then.

I hate to say it but she is potentially a walking open cheque book as far as vet fees go in the future.
There obviously were issues in both neck and hocks, otherwise vets wouldn't have medicated. Anyone with any knowledge will be aware of this. Sorry.

PS To add, if you do go ahead and sell her, then you are looking at meat money in my book.....and, imo, it would be better to sell for meat money to the knacker man than to anyone else. Harsh, but true.

 

[Sprig]

I would worry about her being passed on. Let's say you sell her for a reduced price, fully declaring her issues. There is nothing stopping the purchaser selling her on, for lots more money, not declaring the health issues. Your poor horse could then end up in lots of pain/passed from pillar to post. In your position I would either loan/find retirement livery for her/give her away to a trusted friend or friend of a friend. I couldn't live with the uncertain future she would have if sold. If I couldn't do any of these I would PTS, there are much worse fates for a horse.

 

[Polos Mum]

I would loan and if she came back and I could re loan then PTS.

This is just the sort of horse that is sold to a dealer buted up then sold to someone who doesn't know better.
How bad will you feel when you see someone on here with a 'mis sold horse and injured on the road' latest thread.
She d



Realistically consider the advert and how you would read it with out your attachment to her.

For sale

17hh Warmblood mare that can be quirky and does need a confident and competent rider.
But can only do low level hacking and no proper competing
bronces in the school and on the road when not medicated appropriately
Recently undergone veterinary intervention for a degenerative condition - outcome of this is not yet known


Really sorry to be blunt but if you really don't want the hassle of loaning the PTS is really your only choice.

Or sell to a dealer for £500 and hope you never hear about any disasters.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I have to agree with gunnergundog sorry I think I would only consider a nearby loan home just to insure the horse was not passed around.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Honest answer and I’m sorry if offends anyone. I have a 13 yr old Connie with hock arthritis and wouldn’t even consider selling him. My horse, my responsibility and if it gets to much I will have him PTS. I could not nor would I ever sell him.

Sometimes owners need to man up and be there for their horses.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Exactly what Polos Mum has said. Either a loan home that you can keep a very firm eye on and also be prepared for a hasty return of the horse or step up to the plate and PTS now to save the horse from a very unpleasant and unpredictable future.

 

[Goldenstar]

No I would sell the horse you describe

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

No I would sell the horse you describe

Now that answer from you really does surprise me Goldenstar - out of interest what price tag would you put on it?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I'm another who would loan locally or pts, I'm afraid. I'm sorry that you find yourself in this situation at such a difficult time.



ETA, MrsJ, I think you will find that GS just missed out the 'not' in her post, she often does that.

 

[NoseyNag]

Honest answer and I’m sorry if offends anyone. I have a 13 yr old Connie with hock arthritis and wouldn’t even consider selling him. My horse, my responsibility and if it gets to much I will have him PTS. I could not nor would I ever sell him.

Sometimes owners need to man up and be there for their horses.

I just want to make it clear that I am not selling her because of the arthritis! Quite the opposite, if I could find a way to keep her I would!

 

[stormox]

The vet doesn’t think it will impact on her in the future if managed correctly but it’s obviously degenerative

Is this not a bit of an oxymoron, 'wont impact on her future' and 'degenerative' in the same sentance?
I think loaning a better option than selling, I think it would be hard to sell an arthritic horse anyway. At least loaning you have control over her future.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I just want to make it clear that I am not selling her because of the arthritis! Quite the opposite, if I could find a way to keep her I would!

Then don’t sell her, do the right thing either loan locally so you have full control or PTS.

 

[NoseyNag]

Thanks all for your honest opinions. If I’m honest I’m quite shocked but also glad I asked.

I cannot in good conscience put her to sleep, she is not lame and is happy and otherwise healthy. Yes she is quirky but that was part of the reason I bought her and is part of her character.

I’ve had her a very long time and only want what is best for her. I’m interested that people have said loan rather than sell as I felt that she could get passed back and forth with loaning and so long as I sold to the right person then they would be more invested in her. I appreciate that is easier said than done but I would not just sell her to anybody.

 

[AmyMay]

Now that answer from you really does surprise me Goldenstar - out of interest what price tag would you put on it?

I suspect it a GS miss-type. So should read ‘wouldn’t‘.

I’m with everyone else. Loan, or pts. You can’t in all good conscious sell a horse like this. Sorry ?

 

[ShowJumperBeckii]

My first horse had hock arthritis, loaned her out to a lady very honest with what she had and that she needed steriods what things to look at for when steriod where due etc... I never wanted to sell her butshe ended up buying her as loved her so much and the issues never bothered her as she did the job the lady wanted her for!
So there is always that opinion

 

[NoseyNag]

My first horse had hock arthritis, loaned her out to a lady very honest with what she had and that she needed steriods what things to look at for when steriod where due etc... I never wanted to sell her butshe ended up buying her as loved her so much and the issues never bothered her as she did the job the lady wanted her for!
So there is always that opinion

Loan with a view to buy could be a good option maybe. Thank you

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Pearlasinger and Amymay - thank you! I was gob smacked to be honest!

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Nosey Nag once sold you have absolutely no control over what happens to her. When loaning you do. I apologise if I have come across as blunt but I’m going through exactly the same as you with my boy and selling is just not on the radar. His share is about to come to an end as his sharer is moving to the back of beyond but I still won’t sell him. He is mine, when I bought him I knew full well he would have issues as he got older and was prepared to manage them until the end. I appreciate people’s circumstances changes but that’s why we are their guardians. I hope you reach a conclusion you are happy with.

 

[gunnergundog]

Being realistic, you are unlikely to sell for more than meat money WITH the fully disclosed vet history, plus quirky history.

Yes, it is remotely possible, but not likely, that you will find someone who is a competent enough rider to cope with a quirky horse AND who has the funds to continue to medicate and keep ned comfortable, but for whatever reason doesn't have the capital up front/inclination to purchase a sounder horse.

If you sell, you have NO control over her future whatsoever. She can be medicated, buted, de-nerved and god knows what else in order to be sold on at a profit or shipped abroad.

If you loan her....there are no guarantees....but if you loan her local enough to visit and keep tabs on her, the odds are that you are more in control. Yes, you can have a legal contract put in place, but if the person loaning her decides to sell on/pts without your knowledge then you can only claim damages in retrospect, you can't actually prevent the deed happening.

Hence, why some believe that PTS is the lesser of all the evils.

 

[Red-1]

Nothing wrong with loaning or PTS, but I bought my horse with a list of issues. The owner interviewed people, I was the only one actually allowed to go and view. It was more than meat money, but not a fortune.

I would not have loaned. I like my horses to be...my horses, not someone else's who could whip them away once I am attached.

I sold a quirky one some years ago, who had a ligament injury in the foot and was only suitable for light work. I found a fabulous home, he is 24 now and still much loved and going strong. He did dabble with BD with the new owner (was winning ele points prior to sale) but has mostly been a fun hack, with a sense of humour. I sold him for £1 and could not be more pleased with how it turned out.

I think the key is that the horse is only sold to the right person. If the right person doesn't come, then it has to be PTS or keep. I would rather PTS than sell to the wrong home.

Most people would have PTS my horse Rigsby too, as the owner had to sell through circumstances beyond her control at a time when his future was uncertain. He could have been a walking vets bill. As it is, he has come good (so far) and has his first dressage tomorrow.

I don't think your horse has any monetary value. Not without being back in work and not broncing!

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

First reaction: no one wanting a horse of that type is looking for a gentle hack. My gut feeling is that most prospective buyers are going to want more from her than she's really going to be comfortable with.

Second reaction: don't most horses of her age and size have some degree of arthritis? As in, if a buyer is willing to consider a horse of this type and age, shouldn't they expect a level of arthritis somewhere?

I can imagine that someone might have a fantastic 2, 3, 4 (maybe more?) years with her, and they'd be getting a horse they couldn't otherwise afford. But then what would happen to her? If it were me, I wouldn't necessarily be looking to pts right now. I would be looking for a good loan home, and then as and when that stopped working, at that point I'd either put her on retirement livery if I had the funds, or else pts in good conscience that she'd really come to the end of the road.

 

[Bellaboo18]

I wouldn't sell her, she's chucked you off on the road when in pain. She's now been medicated but you really dont know how long that will last...
I wouldnt want it on my conscience that she could hurt someone when the steroids wear off.
I also imagine her 'quirkiness' was telling you something.
I'd prefer loaning if she was mine.