Selling a horse with laminitis

[louisedavix]

I need some advice. Basically my horse is recovering from laminitis and it is not looking good at all, 50% chance he’ll be perfectly fine and return to full work 50% it will be the end of day for him. My issue is I don’t have the time for him if he does recover due to new job . It’s the kind of lami due to concussion and poor feet quality so nothing to do with being overweight which makes it very hard to maintain, most people have told me maybe just letting him go is the best thing for him otherwise I am going to have to sell him at very reduced price but that is risky as he could end up anywhere. He’s only 7 year old and has potential but really his next X-rays could say he’s recovered but could happen again next month. What would you guys do?

 

[Birker2020]

I need some advice. Basically my horse is recovering from laminitis and it is not looking good at all, 50% chance he’ll be perfectly fine and return to full work 50% it will be the end of day for him. My issue is I don’t have the time for him if he does recover due to new job . It’s the kind of lami due to concussion and poor feet quality so nothing to do with being overweight which makes it very hard to maintain, most people have told me maybe just letting him go is the best thing for him otherwise I am going to have to sell him at very reduced price but that is risky as he could end up anywhere. He’s only 7 year old and has potential but really his next X-rays could say he’s recovered but could happen again next month. What would you guys do?

Sadly his options are very limited. Unless he is lucky enough to land on his feet where he is a companion animal to another laminitic with an owner that had the experience and understands the condition.

Otherwise I'm afraid I would PTS. You need to secure his future and that is realistically the only way you can do that.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I think I replied to your other thread you can't sell a horse with laminitis if you think the prognosis is poor just have the pony pts.

 

[honetpot]

It's not impossible to find him a home, but I would do long term loan. My first horse that I 'owned' was a long term loan, he was LOU, had navicular and unsuitable for showjumping, and I could just about anything with him work wise but nothing on hard ground and no jumping. He was a lovely horse, and I could never imagine I would have the money to buy a horse like that, he was nine when I got him and about twenty when I had him PTS.

 

[Red-1]

I bought mine just as he was finishing his laminitis box rest. He is doing fine, although he has a lot of special treatment.

Mine was due to being overweight though, and the previous owners had already dieted him. I took over the care and did months of in hand walking before tackling riding other than 10minutes at walk.

Homes are out there, but would need vetting very carefully.

Could you not keep him and rehab just until the prognosis of being fine is more like 80%? Barefoot and walk in hand? Pay a professional to start the rehab, if you don't have time?

Makes it more feasible that he will find an owner who wants a long term horse as opposed to someone who would try to Bute and work anyway, or possibly sell without full disclosure so he ends up going down the line.

 

[louisedavix]

Thank you for the replies guys! PTS is something I’m defo considering as even if he can be a companion he wouldn’t cope well with it I don’t think, just trying to tell myself that it’s better for him even at this age rather than being in wrong hands or having to keep putting him through months of box rest. Like you said horses who have lami due to weight can be maintain but my horses blood results levels where completely fine so this type of lami is easily kept on top off. Even if I was the richest person who could afford round the clock care for him I still don’t think I would, he loves being out in field playing with his friends etc but he might never have that life ..

 

[louisedavix]

My above reply was meant to say it’s NOT easily kept on top off. Also his X-rays showed arthritis

 

[brighteyes]

I'd be mega suspicious that the root cause is concussion and hoof quality, TBH.

What type/breed is he and what incident precipitated the laminitis? That is the most realistic basis for whether there's any point in rehab - that and the plan he is currently on as a prophylactic to recurrence.

Now he is predisposed to it, he could suffer an episode triggered by any of the other things laminitis is triggered by.

I'd be worried about him being unscrupulously sold on and ending up, well...

I would stand by him and try to find a loan home - beware of the scammers - and agree a 'joint' emergency PTS plan.

 

[louisedavix]

I'd be mega suspicious that the root cause is concussion and hoof quality, TBH.

What type/breed is he and what incident precipitated the laminitis? That is the most realistic basis for whether there's any point in rehab - that and the plan he is currently on as a prophylactic to recurrence.

Now he is predisposed to it, he could suffer an episode triggered by any of the other things laminitis is triggered by.

I'd be worried about him being unscrupulously sold on and ending up, well...

I would stand by him and try to find a loan home - beware of the scammers - and agree a 'joint' emergency PTS plan.

Even my vet was shocked by the X-ray results as they first diagnosed him with an abscess so box rested poulticed etc and nothing came of it. Then we treated it as subclinical lami so box rest and soaked hay and he got worse… He had it with previous owner and he also relapsed with her when he was in rehab. I gave him a chance and I’ve had about 6 months with him without problems.. my vet was picking at his feet and they were just crumbling away, his soles are so thin and even with special shoes he was still struggling on hard ground. His bone basically feels the hardness of the ground and causes a lami to trigger. I would put him out on full loan but I worry he gets it again and they just pass him back and I’m not around as my job involves travel

 

[louisedavix]

Also he is a Welsh D

 

[brighteyes]

Has he been tested for Cushing's and EMS? Could he manage with specialist (glue on shoes etc) farriery?

 

[ycbm]

With the full history you have now disclosed, repeat bouts in previous ownership, arthritis, not a good companion, then if you can't keep him I would have him PTS to prevent him ending up in the wrong place in future.
.

 

[PSD]

Having gone through it myself, if I knew I couldn’t carry out the care myself and they wouldn’t have a good quality of life I would PTS. One of the main reasons I did with mine, she would have been so restricted with turnout, it’s no life for them. There’s no way I’d be able to pass that responsibility onto someone else either, it’s such a hard decision but if it was me I would PTS if I could no longer give him the care he needs.

 

[louisedavix]

Has he been tested for Cushing's and EMS? Could he manage with specialist (glue on shoes etc) farriery?

So he had EMS with previous owner but no cushions and no cushions this time round. His toes grow really quickly so always getting them taken back but he has no heel support so when we do that too much pressure is going on heels, we tried shoes with a thicker heel and that was just before the lami triggered

 

[teddypops]

If he was mine, I would continue with his treatment, get the next set of X-rays done and take it from there. I don’t think anyone would give you money for him even if you did try to sell him. I would definitely have him pts rather than pass him on if that’s what it came down to.

 

[asmp]

I was selling a pony that got laminitis just as the ad went up. I was sadly ready to put to PTS as I didn’t have the facilities at our yard to manage a laminitic pony plus he was up for sale as daughter had lost interest when a woman who had been interested in him from his advert got back in contact. After I explained what had happened and what was about to happen she agreed to ‘buy’ him from me for £1. Sadly, not long after she spent some time getting him back to being ridden he was PTS for liver damage.

 

[shortstuff99]

So he had EMS with previous owner but no cushions and no cushions this time round. His toes grow really quickly so always getting them taken back but he has no heel support so when we do that too much pressure is going on heels, we tried shoes with a thicker heel and that was just before the lami triggered

Okay, this lami episode will be EMS driven then. He will always have EMS it can just be managed with diet and/or medication. He would need to go to a home that understands how to manage an EMS horse. They are out there but won't be the easiest to find.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I have (deliberately) not read what anyone else has said.

I know what I would do given the circumstances OP describes; the problem with passing on a problem is that you know darn well that not everyone else out there will treat your precious horse with the care that you yourself have done - and with something like laminitis/EMS there needs to be a very careful plan put in place or the horse will deteriorate rapidly. Also it won't be cheap!

Being brutal here, but I think you may have to accept that no-one is going to take on such a huge commitment (and a potentially expensive one at that), and possibly be looking at having to make "the decision" at a future point, very likely in the near future.

The only person who WOULD buy this horse - being totally realistic here - is of course the meat man........ and if you don't want that to happen then I am gently suggesting to you that you know what you must do.

Sadly I AM speaking from experience; my 10yo mare was PTS last Friday. Her laminitis had flared up again and she was lame even on 2X bute daily. She also very likely had EMS and wasn't adapting well to being confined away from her little herd and was becoming bullish and outright aggressive. As this would be what her life would very likely entail for the future the decision was actually easy. So after arranging matters for the Friday afternoon, we then turned her out for the last 48hrs of her life with her herd to eat grass like a normal horse and be a "real horse" again. She came up the field gate for Friday's "appointment" bright eyed and happy. An hour later Bang she was gone - with a gobfull of carrots and none the wiser .......... I don't regret that decision and if I ever had to do it again then yes I would.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. What motivated me to be strong was what I have always said, and that is "never let sentimentality get in the way of compassion".............

 

[Red-1]

If he has EMS, that is currently unmonitored and uncontrolled, then I would say that there is a chance that he could come good. Mine has EMS. It is now controlled to the point that he can 'pass' the Caro sugar test (starvation/saturation). He is living a happy and useful life, despite needing extra care. I also paid for him, despite his many problems.

On the other hand, I would say that PTS would not be the worst thing you could do for him.

I am suspicious of the bad feet. Also that wedges preceded the lami attack. Were the wedges as a result of X ray investigation? They are rarely the answer, IME.

ETA - BTW, if mine starts to get repeated lami despite my best care, he will be PTS.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Okay, this lami episode will be EMS driven then. He will always have EMS it can just be managed with diet and/or medication. He would need to go to a home that understands how to manage an EMS horse. They are out there but won't be the easiest to find.

Honestly, who knowledgeable and capable is realistically going to take such an equine on? It's a huge commitment, even if you have your own facilities and can micromanage the horse.

It's one thing coping if a horse you already own develops EMS, but I for one would run a mile from taking one on with all the worry and stress that would entail.

 

[ycbm]

If he has EMS, that is currently unmonitored and uncontrolled, then I would say that there is a chance that he could come good. Mine has EMS. It is now controlled to the point that he can 'pass' the Caro sugar test (starvation/saturation). He is living a happy and useful life, despite needing extra care. I also paid for him, despite his many problems.

On the other hand, I would say that PTS would not be the worst thing you could do for him.

I am suspicious of the bad feet. Also that wedges preceded the lami attack. Were the wedges as a result of X ray investigation.

ETA - BTW, if mine starts to get repeated lami despite my best care, he will be PTS.

Red you are absolutely wonderful, but you are also, I think, very rare in your willingness combined with your ability to take on a horse like this.
.

 

[shortstuff99]

Honestly, who knowledgeable and capable is realistically going to take such an equine on? It's a huge commitment, even if you have your own facilities and can micromanage the horse.

It's one thing coping if a horse you already own develops EMS, but I for one would run a mile from taking one on with all the worry and stress that would entail.

I think, for me, it would depend on the horse and what they wanted to for.

There are many natives etc out there being successfully managed with EMS, I managed mine for over 20 years so it can be done. BUT someone has to have the willingness to do it.

 

[louisedavix]

I have (deliberately) not read what anyone else has said.

I know what I would do given the circumstances OP describes; the problem with passing on a problem is that you know darn well that not everyone else out there will treat your precious horse with the care that you yourself have done - and with something like laminitis/EMS there needs to be a very careful plan put in place or the horse will deteriorate rapidly. Also it won't be cheap!

Being brutal here, but I think you may have to accept that no-one is going to take on such a huge commitment (and a potentially expensive one at that), and possibly be looking at having to make "the decision" at a future point, very likely in the near future.

The only person who WOULD buy this horse - being totally realistic here - is of course the meat man........ and if you don't want that to happen then I am gently suggesting to you that you know what you must do.

Sadly I AM speaking from experience; my 10yo mare was PTS last Friday. Her laminitis had flared up again and she was lame even on 2X bute daily. She also very likely had EMS and wasn't adapting well to being confined away from her little herd and was becoming bullish and outright aggressive. As this would be what her life would very likely entail for the future the decision was actually easy. So after arranging matters for the Friday afternoon, we then turned her out for the last 48hrs of her life with her herd to eat grass like a normal horse and be a "real horse" again. She came up the field gate for Friday's "appointment" bright eyed and happy. An hour later Bang she was gone - with a gobfull of carrots and none the wiser .......... I don't regret that decision and if I ever had to do it again then yes I would.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. What motivated me to be strong was what I have always said, and that is "never let sentimentality get in the way of compassion".............

can’t tell you how much this has made me feel better about what I am considering doing. Thank you x

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

If the ems is still present the laminitis won't get better there are lots of treatments now so I would try and see if that is worth pursuing, sorry your going through this I have lost a horse to laminitis I know how incredibly hard and stressful it is.

There is a thread on here started by Twyford on here her pony is currently getting over laminitis and has been diagnosed with ems and she really improved after getting the right treatment.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Forgot to add my friends pony was literally on deaths door and lythoxine really turned her around she is back being ridden now.

 

[brighteyes]

EMS both complicates things and clarifies things. I was skeptical about concussion being the root of it and think a management overhaul could well work.

However that only deals with the laminitis attack and not with the future as a realistic and fair sales prospect.

You need to get them sound and see how stable they are, then decide what to do. I'd safeguard their future before putting £££ in my pocket.

 

[DizzyDoughnut]

After having a PPID horse who would get laminitis ridiculously easy I would be very wary of selling him, there will be very few people who would realistically have the facilities and knowledge to manage him appropriately. I couldn't have kept mine on a normal livery yard, it's hard work to manage them and always being on edge incase something tips them over the edge. I would take on another one that had had laminitis if it was already proven to be under control and able to be managed if the horse was in every other way exactly what I wanted, but wouldn't want to face the emotional rollercoaster you end up on when it all starts going downhill. I put the time, effort and money into into mine because I'd already owned him for 15 years by then and I adored him but I wouldn't sink so much into it for a new horse.

I think you either need to keep him and see what the outcome will be before deciding and then maybe loan instead selling or pts.

 

[L&M]

We loaned out my son's pony - he was a superstar and complete schoolmaster, but had had a bout of laminitus which was diagnosed as cushings related. My son had outgrown him and in our mind he was just too good a pony to pts, so advertised for loan, and only to a home with experience of both cushings and lami.

Sadly although we thought we had found him the perfect home, the loaners took their eye of the ball and he went down with lami again the following summer, so we removed him and took him home to pts. In hindsight I wish we had pts with the initial bout rather than find a loan home.

Sadly in your situation I would also pts.

 

[brighteyes]

Our loan pony was how I learned about EMS and PPID and I wouldn't begrudge her a day of it. I wish she was still here but all we have are wonderful memories.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Most horses that have laminitis attacks are either ems or cushings if these are recognised and treated it can be controlled and managed.