Selling Foals 'in utero?

arwenplusone

arwenplusone

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Just interested if anyone does this?

I presume it is mostly by word of mouth/reputation etc, father than advertising.

What are the merits of doing this rather than selling at birth/three months when you have pictures of the foal on the ground?
 
I "sold" one of my last years foals in-utero, however I ended up backing out of the deal once the foal was born. The buyer understood why and didn't make a song and dance about it, so all was good.

I was happy (pre-birth) to sell this foal as it meant that I already had the money in the bag and found a terrific home for it. Can't think of any other merits for doing this from the sellers point of view.

The buyer simply wanted offspring from my mare and stallion and wanted to buy before anyone else could have options on the foal.

I personally would never buy in-utero, I prefer to see foals on the ground before making a decision to buy.

If you do decide to do this, make sure you have a contract with get-out clauses because if the foal turns out to be far better than you thought (and worth more money than agreed), as in my case, then it gives you the option to keep it.
 
Thanks Tia - your last point is v interesting. I have a yearling by the same stallion, out of the same mare who is very nicely put together and is a keeper.

Her full sibling is due next month - and I have had some interest already, but if it is a better foal than last years I might want to keep it, or sell it for more!
 
We sold our Dollar du Mûrier x Concorde x Ramiro Z colt in utero earlier this year to a client in Yorkshire. The price was a little less than we would normally expect for a live foal, but that's the advantage to buyer gets by taking a little bit of risk. The contract is very fair, leaving neither side out of pocket. This however.........

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If you do decide to do this, make sure you have a contract with get-out clauses because if the foal turns out to be far better than you thought (and worth more money than agreed), as in my case, then it gives you the option to keep it.


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.............is totally out of order. If a client pays the money and takes the risk, you cannot do that to them. You've had the money and they should get the product. To pull this kind of stunt, simply ensures that they will never deal with you again.

In point of fact, the colt has turned out fantastic, the client is chuffed and we end up getting more repeat business (which is the most valuable).
 
Actually they didn't pay any money upfront for the foal. The foal is not suitable for them as she was bred to work and they are pleasure riders. I knew she was unsuitable the moment she was on the ground. They did actually buy 3 other horses from me, so I would say they are perfectly happy with the situation, as am I.
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Then what you are talking about is not "in utero" it's "oh I'd like that foal please". An in utero contract is generally speaking where a deposit of say 33% is taken at reservation, followed by 33% at 48 hours after birth, then the final 34% immediately prior to delivery.

If you haven't taken/paid any money prior to birth, the "contract" is not particularly serious, and so , yes, either side can do what they want.
 
That may be how you deal with it; what works for you is not necessarily the way others choose to run their businesses
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. I chose not to take any money upfront - my choice. The buyers came to watch the birth of this foal. Interesting how, without knowing these people you can quite categorically state that because some business deals work in a different way to the way you do them, that these people are somewhat lesser beings. Very bizarre attitude and I can't see that you have been particularly helpful to the original poster of this thread.
 
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Interesting how, without knowing these people you can quite categorically state that because some business deals work in a different way to the way you do them, that these people are somewhat lesser beings

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Eeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Wow, I'm not sure that I can see quite where you get that from. Especially the "quite categorically" bit (can you quote where you got that from?) You should avoid overstatement, in order to win what is, in fact, NOT an arguement.

The type of "deal" that you describe, is the first I've seen of it's type. I don't see where the "in utero contract" exists, where no deposit has been paid, and the priciple seems to be "oh, well we'll wait until it's born and see if we actually want to sell it to you, because if it's good, we want to keep it". The subtext being ".....and if it's not good enough for us to keep, we'll sell it to you".

Nice!

And yes, I would suggest that this debate is probably very useful to the OP.
 
Sorry to but in, but to an outsider it looks like you are discussing two different situations!

I would say that Ken has actually sold the foal "in utero" with whatever contract and financial arrangements work for him. In Tia's case it seems more like she had offered first refusal rather than actually selling the foal, but maybe that is just my take on things.

I agree with Ken's approach that the system should provide some sort of benefit to both parties i.e. the buyer gets a good price for a foal whilst accepting that there are some risks involved and the breeder has the security of a sale early on and some money up front.

Personally I find the prospect quite interesting from a buyers point of view as to me there seems to be an element of risk in purchasing any younstock. For example, a top class foal will cost you less than a top class 4 year old and part of the reason for this is that you take the risk that you can keep the foal sound and healthy for those years and that it fulfils the potential that you saw when you bought it.

In response to the OP, I would imagine it would work in the same way as having the foal on the ground i.e. if they were interested in the bloodlines they may want to come and see the foal. In this case they may want to see the parents and/or as Ken suggests benefit financially from taking a risk. Lots of studs list the foals they are expecting as well as the youngstock they already have but I suppose it may be like you say from word of mouth or them liking related youngstock already on the ground.

Sorry I have waffled on so much!
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You're not waffling, the benefit to the buyer is huge, and the contract is not weighted in favour of either side. In fact with us, the deposit isn't even lost in the event of a death, we just rebreed the mare to the same stallion (again with the benefit of live foal guarantee)and the buyer has to wait another year for the result (or they can buy a similar foal for the same amount if they desperately want a foal that year). By the same token the seller (us in this case) is safe in the knowledge that they have a secure sale prior to sale. Ok, it's for a little less than it might have made once born, but all breeders should remember this ........................................THE BEST HORSE IN THE WORLD IS A SOLD HORSE!!!!!
 
Thanks Ken, it's really interesting to hear how it works in practice as we've not gone down that route before.

We negotiated a "package" deal to buy all four of a breeeder's foals last year even though we only particularly liked 3, it meant that we got the three that we really wanted for a good price whilst he had the security of knowing that all of his foals had been sold. We were so pleased with them that we have since spoken to him about this year's foals and he has given us first refusal. I wish I'd realised about the in utero situation earlier as we may have been able to haggle a bit for this years!
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I have no idea re. the financial aspects but saw the other day that Future Sport Horses have sold a foal by Future Illusion 'in utero' for this season.
 
Maggie - thanks for visiting our website!
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We have sold the foal 'in-utero' as per Ken's definition. We only have 3 foals due by Future Illusion this year and have had a lot of enquiries for them, so the lady concerned decided to buy in-utero rather than risk missing out on one.

She's now extremely happy after Badminton given that the mare's sire was Shaab (sire of 2nd place horse Shaabrak), and Future Illusion's sire, Fleetwater Opposition was the sire of 6th place horse Opposition Buzz!
 
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