Selling on abandoned horses?

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zoon

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I am going to ring the BHS when they open tomorrow, but just wanted to see if anyone knew about selling on abandoned horses? Here is the story -

2 horses abandoned a month ago - yard owner has been taking full care of horses inc all costs since then
Yard owner has left an abandonment notice for owner at yard and also put one though door of last known address
Yard owner is now claiming ownership and selling horses on
Owner still has the passports

I am intersted in the horses, but worried about who would have ownership and how I'd go about getting passports for the horses. Also worried original owner would turn up adn claim them back (mental health issues - would this go in her favour or against her? Could she claim she was unaware of what the abandonment notice meant???)

Would I ever be the legal owner of the horses?
 
Hi,
I've had the same happen to me with three horses. I rang up the BHS legal helpline and they told me to do exactly as your yard owner has done. You have to let a period of time elapse after the notices have gone up and letter has been sent (I think two weeks) and then you can apply for new passports in your name. One of the horses I had was microchipped and so we found out it's true identity and so that was issued with a duplicate passport and I have since sold it on. With the other two I had no way of knowing who they were although one has a loss of use stamp and freezemark, and so I contacted farmkey but they could only tell me it was a 16hh bay mare. So for these two horses I have had brand new passports in my name and said horses are still out in one of my fields...
The lawyer on the BHS helpline said that as long as you could be seen to have taken steps to contact the owner than you would be ok, for instance the letter sent to the last known address of the owner should be sent recorded delivery so that you known that it has been recieved and signed for.
Also make sure yard owner keeps receipts/invoices as proof of what they are paying out for the horses in case the owner returns!
These horses were abandoned on my yard in febuary and I have not heard from the owner since.
Hope this helps! x
 
My old boy was an abandoned livery who was left out in a field and as the owner never returned for a year, they started using him in the riding school and he was eventually bought. I then bought him. But it was in the days off no passport. As far as I know noone ever came looking for him.

I also know of a loanee who tried to contact the horse owner to return it and they had vanished.She still has it years later!

Good to know these horses can be rehomed etc and re passported. At least if someone looks there will be a record?
 
Letter was personally delivered (they went to speak to her, but no answer so left letter) so no recorded delivery
 
I've had a similar problem to this. I rang up the BHS legal helpline and was told to print off an Abandonment Notice from the Redwings site that states if the owner doesn't contact you within 2 weeks that the land owner has the right to rehome, sell or destroy the horses. You have to put this notice on the gate. If there is no response the horses are yours but as the horse was moved off my land I have no idea what steps you have to take afterwards with regards to passports etc.
 
The recorded delievery is more to prove that you have sent it as you can only send it to the last known address as they could be anywhere. It's all about proving that you have made attempts to contact them in case they do decide to return and claim the horses back. Hopefully if they signed a contract this may also contain a clause stating what happens in the case of abandonement/non payment.
 
Spoke to BHS and if the horses are sold after the abandonment notice is served then that actually is classed as theft - 14 days after the abandonment notice is issued the yard owner must start court proceedings to transfer ownership into their name and then they may sell them on. If ownership is not transferred by the court then the horses are classed as stolen - so seems a few of you have stolen some horses!
 
zoon said:
2 horses abandoned a month ago - yard owner has been taking full care of horses inc all costs since then

Also worried original owner would turn up adn claim them back (mental health issues - would this go in her favour or against her? Could she claim she was unaware of what the abandonment notice meant???)

Would I ever be the legal owner of the horses?
Click to expand...

People with mental health issues often have periods of time in hospital. A month isn't very long, the owner could be hospitalised during that time.

It sounds as though the owner isn't well enough to take care of theses horses, but may not be aware anyone's trying to contact them. Has the yard owner tried contacting through Social Services or your local psychiatric hospital?

Social Workers and the hospital cannot give out info about clients/patients due to confidentality laws, but they could pass letters on.
 
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zoon said:
Spoke to BHS and if the horses are sold after the abandonment notice is served then that actually is classed as theft - 14 days after the abandonment notice is issued the yard owner must start court proceedings to transfer ownership into their name and then they may sell them on. If ownership is not transferred by the court then the horses are classed as stolen - so seems a few of you have stolen some horses!
Click to expand...

Reading down the posts I was just about to reply with what the BHS have just told you zoom. My friend went through the civil courts to get permission to sell a horse to recover the debt. Basically you can't just claim the horse as settlement for a debt you have to get the civil courts to award you ownership of the hrose as settlement of the debt.
 
would that be the same if it was an abandoned livery yard horse and the livery agreement had a formal clause in it granting a lien over the horse if abandoned/fees not paid for X months? I can see in the absence of that it is really a court matter but with it?
 
ossy said:
Reading down the posts I was just about to reply with what the BHS have just told you zoom. My friend went through the civil courts to get permission to sell a horse to recover the debt. Basically you can't just claim the horse as settlement for a debt you have to get the civil courts to award you ownership of the hrose as settlement of the debt.
Click to expand...

Out of interest, how much did going to court cost your friend?

I was worried that my situation was going to end up in a court case. I knew it wasn't going to be as simple as re-passporting but I had hoped that Defra or similar body would have something in place for these situations, especially with the number of horses reported abandoned recently.
 
scrunchie said:
Out of interest, how much did going to court cost your friend?

I was worried that my situation was going to end up in a court case. I knew it wasn't going to be as simple as re-passporting but I had hoped that Defra or similar body would have something in place for these situations, especially with the number of horses reported abandoned recently.
Click to expand...

Em it didn't cost her that much as you repersent yourself, its not like the criminal courts, it was the small claims court she went through in thinking about it and cost about £300, which in the end the judge included in the final debt owned to my friend. She was a livery yard owner who had a horse abandonded with her and was caring for it herself. She went to the small claims court to claim back the debt that had been racked up in livery, farrier, vet, worming bills ect from the owner, not necessarily for ownership of the horse but as part of the settlement the small claims awarded was that she could sell the horse and keep the money so the owner sent the passport to my friend with a signed letter saying ownership had been gifted to my friend and my friend used that to change the owenership details on the passport and then sell the horse.
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
would that be the same if it was an abandoned livery yard horse and the livery agreement had a formal clause in it granting a lien over the horse if abandoned/fees not paid for X months? I can see in the absence of that it is really a court matter but with it?
Click to expand...

TBH most livery yard contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on, similar to loan agreements, a decent lawer would be able to drive a bus through them as not legally binding documents so yes legally I would think it would still be the same.
 
I have to say that it is a very confusing matter and I read some very conflicting advice when trying to sort out my situation. Essentially I wanted to give them to a charity as I was worried about the implications of selling the horses on but they didn't want to take them on as they were being cared for (by me). This is when i turned to the BHS legal helpline who said that after the abandonment notice I could rehome or resell as long as I could prove that I had tried to contact the seller so confused as to why they have given you different advice? Although in the letter they advised me to say that if they turned up to collect the horses and did not pay the livery bill then I would take them through the small claims court in order to get my money back, so maybe that is more a way of you getting the money back and them getting there horse back which would only work if they co-operated I did understand that you couldn't profit from the horses so for instance if you sold a horse for £10, 000 but only paid out £500 in feed etc for the time you had it then if the owner returned then you would have to give them the remaining £9,500 but tbh I think the whole subject is sketchy and the one horse I have sold has not in anyway covered the cost of keeping the three of them and I have the reciepts to prove it!
I also agree that a month is not a particularily long time I had the three mares for 6 months before legal advice and they were only supposed to be on the yard for 2 months in the first place!
 
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