Selling pups

[Wagtail]

I am dreading the time when I have to sell my new pups. I was wondering how others deal with the problem of finding good homes. Last time, I had a list of questions I would ask prospective buyers over the phone, before they came to view. Some came as far as from 400 miles away and so I had to ensure they were ideal before they wasted their journey. But I found the whole process, especially when having to tell some people 'no' was very uncomfortable. So any tips? Would an email questionnaire be better? Or is speaking direct best. I don't want to offend people, but I don't want my puppies to go to unsuitable homes either.

 

[AmyMay]

It seems to me that most of the breeders on here have homes lined up before pups are even conceived.

 

[Wagtail]

It seems to me that most of the breeders on here have homes lined up before pups are even conceived.

Yes, so did we for the jack russells, but these were not planned. He was sold to us as an infertile dog. Needless to say she will be speyed after the pups are weaned.

 

[Kaylum]

You need to start advertising as soon as possible. get the prospective owners to look at the mum and dad and basically assess from there. When I bought my last dog (a long time ago) I went to see her first to look at the parents and where they had been brought up etc. you know the usual and to check the breeding line out. they asked plenty of questions I put a small deposit down when I had chosen went home did the research but that was with a pedigree. I think saying no is hard but they are still your dogs. I would love to be grilled when buying a dog. It shows the breeder cares.

 

[Littlelegs]

Things could have changed but when we had pyreneans ( before I was born then as a child 80s & early 90s) the kc & breeders were quite a tight knit group with them being relatively rare, & could always recommend people waiting for pups, practically had waiting lists, either as pets or show dogs. Breeders would also generally want a look for any particularly great specimens. So might be worth ringing kc for some advice. They aren't all that common now so might be worth a shot. Despite always having them, when I wanted a pup of my own as a child I only ended up with one without a long wait because parents friends had one born without dew claws.

 

[Alec Swan]

Wagtail,

I do hope that you wont hate me for this, BUT!!....

A/ If your vetting of prospective buyers is too stringent, you may "put off", those who would otherwise be ideal owners, but might take the view that "It's only a dog, it isn't a surveyors report on a house", and they may well have a point, and

B/ Draw up a questionnaire, and those who are determined to evade the questions, will do so, with ease, assuming that is that they aren't of the school, of A/ !! Then we have.....

C/ Put off potential buyers, and you may well end up with a litter of puppies who reach adulthood, and remember that an eight week old puppy will sell with ease, whereas an eight month old puppy, most certainly wont.

I'm doing my best to be realistic, and the above points are the simple facts of life.

Alec.

 

[quirky]

When my parent's bought their Standard Schnauzer, they had a formal interview by the owners and were told that no decision would be made on the day.

The breeders rang them a few days later and told them they were successful in their interview. They also had to agree to a covenant of not breeding from the bitch that they eventually had, which wasn't a problem as it was never the plan.

 

[Wagtail]

Thanks for the replies. Kaylum, littlegs and quirky, Yes I have almost always been grilled by the sellers of Pyreneans when going to buy them, except that is by the one who sold us our current dog. Turns out they were not so scrupulous and arranged to meet us with him and I got the impression they would have sold him to anyone! Needless to say, they have not been forthcoming with his papers now that we have requested them and other breeders I have spoken to have said that they are very unreliable people.

Alec, I appreciate what you are saying, and whilst I don't want to offend people who are looking for a pup, I want to make sure they are going to suitable homes. They are massive dogs and not for beginners. Also When she had her (planned) litter three years ago, I had to buy one pup back due to the new owner saying she was 'mauling' their toddler. She was just being a puppy, playing like puppies do, but very big of course! I had spoken at length to the buyer before agreeing to the sale but was not too concerned as we got our first pyr puppy when one of my children was only 5 months old and had no problems as we were sensible with baby gates etc and the breed is excellent with children.

 

[RutlandH2O]

Wagtail, When I was "seriously" doggy in the 70s, 80s, and part of the 90s, my puppy interviews were lengthy, in-depth, and exhausting. I was not a prolific breeder, but I was rather high-profile (president of the Golden Retriever Club of Hawaii, correspondent to the GR national newsletter, importer of British Norwich Terriers, with group winners and placers in both breeds). One of the first things I noticed with prospective puppy buyers was the questions THEY asked. If their initial queries were "How much are they?" or "Can I train it to ride in the back of my pickup truck?", my response was that all the pups were sold.
Living in a hot climate, my priorities, beside my insistence on a fenced garden, were access to fresh, cold water at all times, shade, and access to the family home (or a part thereof). Ideally, having a member of the family home during the day is always preferred where pups are involved. One of the things I always made clear was that when shopping for TVs or washing machines, people expect guarantees and back-up from the store or manufacturer. I told everyone who wanted one of my pups (and only ONE), that they should expect nothing less from a breeder. My support for the new owners was 100%, but they had to adhere to certain prerequisites before the purchase. I had contracts on all my babies. These contracts spoke for me, the new owners, AND, most importantly, for the dog. Those contracts dictated a no-breeding clause; a return-to-me clause in the event the dog could no longer be kept by the new owner; the aforementioned garden, housing, water, etc., clause, among several other requests. Only once, in all those years, did I lose a prospective buyer. He refused to be restricted in what he wanted to do with his dog, at his home, in his own way. Fair enough. I kept the bitch, she became a champion, and moved with us to the UK. What I'm saying is, yes, you hold the lead. If the interested people are unwilling to subscribe to a number of your requests regarding the health, welfare, and happiness of your puppies, don't sell to them, full stop.

I'm a bit rusty now, but if you would like, I'll pull out some of those old contracts and let you know what else they contain.

 

[Wagtail]

Thanks. That is really helpful. When you say you would have the puppy back, did that mean that you would buy it back? I had no such agreement last time and so I ended up buying the puppy back to ensure she went to a good home. Thankfully I found one pretty quickly with a couple who already owned a pyrenean.

 

[Kaylum]

Thanks. That is really helpful. When you say you would have the puppy back, did that mean that you would buy it back? I had no such agreement last time and so I ended up buying the puppy back to ensure she went to a good home. Thankfully I found one pretty quickly with a couple who already owned a pyrenean.

well I would give a length of time you would accept the pup back healthy and give a full refund. Not like 2 years down the line, as your circumstances might change. Personally I wouldn't offer that and wait till a situation occurs and take it from there. It's too easy an option.

 

[Vizslak]

wagtail, the terms I use in my contracts regarding the return of puppies is the following;
6. That they acknowledge that if at any time they need to rehome the above dog he/she shall be returned to the breeder and not gifted/sold to a third party without the breeders written permission. They also understand that they will not be refunded the purchase price.
If you want a full copy of the contract I use to help you to draft one yourself then pm me and I will email you one.

 

[Kaylum]

wagtail, the terms I use in my contracts regarding the return of puppies is the following;
6. That they acknowledge that if at any time they need to rehome the above dog he/she shall be returned to the breeder and not gifted/sold to a third party without the breeders written permission. They also understand that they will not be refunded the purchase price.
If you want a full copy of the contract I use to help you to draft one yourself then pm me and I will email you one.

how would you police such a contract? I mean if they broke the contract 5 years down the line what would you do about it? or is it really just for peaceofmind.

 

[Vizslak]

Having a decent contract that you are sure people have thoroughly read and understood before placing a deposit on their puppies is far safer than not having one at all. Would my contract stand up in a court of law? Hopefully, it would at least give me a fighting chance. I get owners and myself to sign two copies, one retained here in my records and one for them.

ets, and really ( I hope) my interrogation of owners is good enough that they arent the types that would try and sell on behind my back, I suppose the main reason for this to come into play would be if they had a major change of circumstance and could no longer keep the dog, they are likely to be upset in this case (because I know they are all nice people, I take ages to approve them) and want to do the best by the dog, but this so often is when the dog then ends up 'free to a good home' on gumtree or the like or in a rescue centre, instead, they know (because I contracted them to it) that they can ring me and bring it here for me to rehome and my puppies shouldnt therefore at any point in their lives find themselves in a rescue centre or anywhere else they shoudlnt be.

 

[Kaylum]

Having a decent contract that you are sure people have thoroughly read and understood before placing a deposit on their puppies is far safer than not having one at all. Would my contract stand up in a court of law? Hopefully, it would at least give me a fighting chance. I get owners and myself to sign two copies, one retained here in my records and one for them.

I thought peaceofmind more than anything, have you ever had any returns years after?

 

[Vizslak]

I have never had a return * touches wood*

 

[RutlandH2O]

Thanks. That is really helpful. When you say you would have the puppy back, did that mean that you would buy it back? I had no such agreement last time and so I ended up buying the puppy back to ensure she went to a good home. Thankfully I found one pretty quickly with a couple who already owned a pyrenean.

Sorry, yes, I would buy it back. Actually, there was one very good home where the husband was appreciably older than the wife. When the pup was about 18-20 months old, the husband decided that the pup, a Golden Retriever, shed too much for his liking. The wife was heartbroken, but I bought the bitch back and found the most wonderful home for her within a couple of days. The new people were smitten, had the bitch for another 12 years, and then bought another one from me when she died.

When I had my very first litter of Goldens, the first pup I sold wound up changing hands when he was just under 2 years of age. The couple had moved to a houseboat, rang me and told me they had sold the dog to a lovely couple. I was horrified. I told them that they were in breach of contract. They said they interviewed the new people and felt I would be pleased with their choice. I was dumbfounded. The new people rang me the next day, came over to our place, asked no end of questions, and actually agreed to all the points of the contract I had had with the original owner. Turns out, the new owners were a lawyer and a legal secretary. I groomed the dog several times a year, I showed him, and he became a champion in 3 shows. When he died, they bought another pup from me. So, the horror of horrors turned out to be a rather nice story.

 

[RutlandH2O]

Having a decent contract that you are sure people have thoroughly read and understood before placing a deposit on their puppies is far safer than not having one at all. Would my contract stand up in a court of law? Hopefully, it would at least give me a fighting chance. I get owners and myself to sign two copies, one retained here in my records and one for them.

ets, and really ( I hope) my interrogation of owners is good enough that they arent the types that would try and sell on behind my back, I suppose the main reason for this to come into play would be if they had a major change of circumstance and could no longer keep the dog, they are likely to be upset in this case (because I know they are all nice people, I take ages to approve them) and want to do the best by the dog, but this so often is when the dog then ends up 'free to a good home' on gumtree or the like or in a rescue centre, instead, they know (because I contracted them to it) that they can ring me and bring it here for me to rehome and my puppies shouldnt therefore at any point in their lives find themselves in a rescue centre or anywhere else they shoudlnt be.

^^^Precisely!! You've hit the nail right on the head, to a word!!!

 

[EAST KENT]

Having a decent contract that you are sure people have thoroughly read and understood before placing a deposit on their puppies is far safer than not having one at all. Would my contract stand up in a court of law? Hopefully, it would at least give me a fighting chance. I get owners and myself to sign two copies, one retained here in my records and one for them.

ets, and really ( I hope) my interrogation of owners is good enough that they arent the types that would try and sell on behind my back, I suppose the main reason for this to come into play would be if they had a major change of circumstance and could no longer keep the dog, they are likely to be upset in this case (because I know they are all nice people, I take ages to approve them) and want to do the best by the dog, but this so often is when the dog then ends up 'free to a good home' on gumtree or the like or in a rescue centre, instead, they know (because I contracted them to it) that they can ring me and bring it here for me to rehome and my puppies shouldnt therefore at any point in their lives find themselves in a rescue centre or anywhere else they shoudlnt be.

Sometimes it goes wrong,which is the reason we Tattoo ,if it ends up lost or in rescue ,you,the breeder,are kept in touch and can bring it home.It can be a real nuisance if the lost soul is a bull terrier at the Asbo stage!
By the way..really surprised the usual hit squad have`nt struck! Not even are they both hip scored!!

 

[Clodagh]

When we bought our lab we were recommended to the breeder by a mutual friend, which helped. I went to see the litter after exchanging emails and pics of parents and spent about half an hour there. At no stage did it feel like an interview but in hindsight it probably was. They wanted the pups to go to country homes, preferably working and we ticked all the boxes. I left the depost then, revisited a few more times and collected her when she was ready.
I think you may just need to chat to people and find out what their expectations are, they can always lie to direct questions but they can't pretend to be nice and doggy if they aren't.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I always prefer to speak to people rather than email, I think you can get more of a feel for them. I agree with Rutland, anyone who asks the price as one of their first questions doesn't get much further with me. Asking specific questions can lead people to give you the answers they think you want to hear, its far better to just chat. When people contact me looking for a pup I say to them "tell me what you are looking for in a dog and I will tell you if mine are suitable". You can usually get a good idea as to how they talk about previous dogs etc. Someone who had one of Evies pups actually said to me they were glad I really wanted to know about them, as they contacted another breeder and they just were pushing the pups on them, so they decided not to go and see them. I don't think there is any set standard for an "ideal home", I have sold pups to what might be considered unsuitable homes in some ways (e.g. a flat in Hackney) but the dogs have turned out to have the most wonderful lives.
Alec is right that a pup at 8 weeks is far easier to sell than one at 8 months, having said that I would rather have 8 month pups than be worrying that I had let a pup go to the wrong home.
I sell with contracts too, with I imagine similar wording to those already mentioned. I have had a couple of people come back to me when unable to keep the dog (marriage break ups in both cases) and I have been able to help with rehoming. Two pups were passed on without my knowledge, one was taken to a local GSD Rescue, with all her papers, when the rescue owner, who of course knew me, asked why the hadn't contacted me they said they were too embarrassed! She contacted me direct and together we found the bitch a lovely home.
The other one I only found about when I was contacted by West Mid police to say they had a lovely dog bred by me and did I have any more! They had traced me through his tattoo (invaluable I agree EK), and he had been passed to them as owners found him too much to cope with. I was furious and tried to contact them to let them know my feelings but they had moved. It ended well as he was Police Dog of the year and was even featured on local news, but it could have been very different.
In your particular case Wagtail, as the Pyrenean community is I imagine not huge, I would spread the word as much as possible amongst fellow breeders, who may have people interested in a pup who would be prepared to take one without papers for a lower price.

 

[silu]

Not ever posted on this part of H&H but struggling re possibly buying another Kerry Blue Terrier.
Have owned/been involved with dogs all my 59 years and have had 3 KBTs in the past and know only too well they are NOT a beginners dog. I don't have a dog at the moment and feel I would like 1 more before I get past coping with another 1!
The breeder who bred the line of KBT's that I have had died a few years back so I can't go back to him. I did research on the net and contacted a few breeders none of which had pups or was going to in the near future. Then I did have success and found a breeder who had pups. I did a bit of research and found the breeder had been doing well with a young dog showing wize and so contacted her and arranged to go and see the litter. Ok so I'm getting older but I seemed to know 1 hell of a lot more about the breed than she did! I travelled a long way to view the pups which involved staying overnight in B&B, so NOT cheap. Visited the pups and was NOT impressed.All the pups had VERY mucky eyes and some of her adult dogs did too. When I expressed concern I was told because of their hair it is common to get mucky eyes...RUBBISH. She then phoned the breeder of the father to the pups I had come to see.This breeder had won B of B at Crufts on more than 1 occasion. They were quite aggressive and assured me there was NOTHING wrong with the pups. How the hell could they know when they hadn't seen them? I was badgered to buy a pup by the breeder and ended up making a swift exist. SO it isn't always the purchaser who's maybe in the wrong. Haven't a clue where I go now, as would seem that I have been to see "the best" and if that's how the breed is represented nowadays it's no wonder that KBT's are on the endangered list. I have spoken with a breeder who is a world renowned Terrier person but unfortunately doen't breed Kerries. Hopefully she may come up with something, otherwise I think I'll have to think about another breed. Is my story unusual?

 

[MurphysMinder]

I've said in my post above that someone who had one of my pups had found another breeder push, and they hadn't even got as far as seeing the pups, so I suspect your experience is not all that unusual.
Can't really help with Kerries, I presume you have tried breed clubs and KC assured breeder lists?

 

[EAST KENT]

Not ever posted on this part of H&H but struggling re possibly buying another Kerry Blue Terrier.
Have owned/been involved with dogs all my 59 years and have had 3 KBTs in the past and know only too well they are NOT a beginners dog. I don't have a dog at the moment and feel I would like 1 more before I get past coping with another 1!
The breeder who bred the line of KBT's that I have had died a few years back so I can't go back to him. I did research on the net and contacted a few breeders none of which had pups or was going to in the near future. Then I did have success and found a breeder who had pups. I did a bit of research and found the breeder had been doing well with a young dog showing wize and so contacted her and arranged to go and see the litter. Ok so I'm getting older but I seemed to know 1 hell of a lot more about the breed than she did! I travelled a long way to view the pups which involved staying overnight in B&B, so NOT cheap. Visited the pups and was NOT impressed.All the pups had VERY mucky eyes and some of her adult dogs did too. When I expressed concern I was told because of their hair it is common to get mucky eyes...RUBBISH. She then phoned the breeder of the father to the pups I had come to see.This breeder had won B of B at Crufts on more than 1 occasion. They were quite aggressive and assured me there was NOTHING wrong with the pups. How the hell could they know when they hadn't seen them? I was badgered to buy a pup by the breeder and ended up making a swift exist. SO it isn't always the purchaser who's maybe in the wrong. Haven't a clue where I go now, as would seem that I have been to see "the best" and if that's how the breed is represented nowadays it's no wonder that KBT's are on the endangered list. I have spoken with a breeder who is a world renowned Terrier person but unfortunately doen't breed Kerries. Hopefully she may come up with something, otherwise I think I'll have to think about another breed. Is my story unusual?

I would go back to the source of the Kerry..Ireland. I have show people contacts should you decide that route.

 

[Star_Chaser]

I haven't got time to read the whole thread today but if you still have the pups then this is what I would do and have done when I was made responsible for a bitch who had whelped a litter of puppies:

1) get the bitch and the pups checked out by a vet their welfare is first and foremost. If you haven't already done it start your worming program and weigh them to make sure they are gaining a healthy weight.

2) if they are KC registered dogs and you have permission to breed (in other words the breeders of your two dogs have not placed any endorsements on them to stop breeding) then sort out your KC registration at least that gives you a chance of selling them. If they are a cross or not registered with the KC you can still register them by using the 'ACTIVITY REGISTER' you can find more information on the Kennel Clubs website but basically it allows you to register and ENDORSE the puppies to stop anyone else breeding from them which is good practise these days given so many are out to make money from breeding dogs. You get to choose your puppies registered names the same as you would for normal registration and the pups can later go on to compete in things like agility. They cannot be shown or field trialled but thats no loss if they were an accidental mating.

If they are KC registered with Endorsements you MUST go back to your breeder to ask for retrospective permission to breed or contact the Kennel Club for advice.

3) Start your selling process there are some good websites you can advertise on I use Champdogs which lists health tests that the sire and dam have undertaken. There are other good sites about find a decent dog forum for the breed and ask them. Set them at a reasonable price and be honest that this is an accidental mating. If your honest there will be less come back if the puppies suffer any hereditary health problems that could have been avoided. You will also need to include that into your puppy contract.

There are contracts and new puppy packs available from the Kennel Club I would recommend you use them as they are relatively comprehensive and an idiot guide if you use the new ones that have been released in the last couple of months. Again they are on the KC website or you can call their help line.

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There is no excuse not to raise good and healthy puppies that will go on to make you proud, you are responsible for them for their lifetimes and owners will come back when things go wrong (contracts help even for cross breeds). Accidents happen but I have to say if a dog has been sold to you as infertile why when your bitch was in season if it still had a set of balls did you leave them together??? Some dogs aren't infertile they just don't want to breed with the bitches put to them or the previous owner had made a mess of the process.