Selling?

[JBM]

I feel horrible writing this but my dad has brung up some good points.
Basically Judy is on loan right now in a hacking home as I don’t have time with college and she loves hacking..is in no way ready to retire and has no problem telling you that
Hacking isn’t really my thing and I bought her first for jumping.
my question now is she’s happier in a hacking home with someone who has time for her so should I keep her on loan or sell her?
I’m going to have to have her on loan for another year at least til I finish college but even when she comes back..I don’t love hacking.
But my greatest worry is someone selling her on when she’s ready to retire
So my question is can you sell a horse with an agreement to retire the horse with me? She’s no where near retirement could be anywhere from 2-10 years down the road

 

[AmyMay]

So my question is can you sell a horse with an agreement to retire the horse with me?

It wouldn’t be worth the paper it’s written on.

 

[JBM]

It wouldn’t be worth the paper it’s written on.

A contract like that wouldn’t hold?

 

[coblets]

1. what if the new owner wants to keep her after she retires
2. what would be the legal definition of retire? in theory, they could say that she was still in work by a kid sitting on her once a week
3. why would they just give you back a horse they paid good money for?
3. you could ask for first refusal but even that's dodgy depending on the new owner. all it takes is them losing contact with you, and then they can sell her on without you ever knowing.

 

[IrishMilo]

Could you look for another loan home for her once she comes back? Unfortunately these sorts of decisions are part and parcel of horse ownership and why it's so difficult sometimes! If you sell her you have zero right (legally and morally) to tell someone else how to keep her or what to do with her if they no longer want her. How old is she?

 

[JBM]

Could you look for another loan home for her once she comes back? Unfortunately these sorts of decisions are part and parcel of horse ownership and why it's so difficult sometimes! If you sell her you have zero right (legally and morally) to tell someone else how to keep her or what to do with her if they no longer want her. How old is she?

21 now which is why I’d be slightly scared of selling her

 

[bonny]

21 now which is why I’d be slightly scared of selling her

You shouldn’t really sell a 21 year old horse, while she’s still enjoying hacking I would keep loaning her.

 

[Goldenstar]

No you don’t sell a 21 yo .

 

[JBM]

Is there a certain reason why you don’t?

 

[Wishfilly]

A contract like that wouldn’t hold?

IANAL but my understanding is that rights of first refusal contracts are very tricky. If you wanted one, you would need to get a competent equine lawyer to assist you. If the contract was broken, and a sale had already taken place, you may be able to claim for monetary damages, but that's it- you couldn't force a new owner to give you the horse, so it wouldn't guarantee the horse's future. I believe, although I may be wrong about this, you'd have to pay asking price for the horse- you couldn't force an owner to give the horse back to you for free (even if you felt the horse had no value).

I also agree that it may be difficult to define retired in legal terms.

ETA: You'd also potentially run into the same issue, that the owner would need to sell before retirement- so you'd basically be in the same position as loaning, but you'd have to pay to get her back!

If your horse is currently happy in her loan home, why is there any need to change anything? With a loan, you retain control (which is what you seem to want) and if the loan ends, you can always find another loaner.

 

[Regandal]

Is there a certain reason why you don’t?

Realistically, how many more years is she going to be fit? Impossible to tell. There’s the danger that if you sell to someone less than trustworthy, she could be buted up and sold as much younger and worked too hard. Safer to keep her under your ownership.

 

[JBM]

Well see she’s happy in her loan home and I would ideally sell to her as they are a perfect match but unfortunately her father just had his 3rd stroke so I’m unsure if she wants to continue the loan let alone buy her

 

[Wishfilly]

Well see she’s happy in her loan home and I would ideally sell to her as they are a perfect match but unfortunately her father just had his 3rd stroke so I’m unsure if she wants to continue the loan let alone buy her

I don't think it would be very fair to put pressure on the loaner right now! I'd suggest giving it a bit of time, and if the loaner wants to continue the loan, then great- if not, you can think about options then.

But assume if you sell, no matter what contract you draw up, you will have lost control of her future.

 

[JBM]

I don't think it would be very fair to put pressure on the loaner right now! I'd suggest giving it a bit of time, and if the loaner wants to continue the loan, then great- if not, you can think about options then.

But assume if you sell, no matter what contract you draw up, you will have lost control of her future.

Oh I know I haven’t said anything to her at all! Wouldn’t pressure her right now of course not
Was just making this post as to see about what else I could do.
thank you for replying

 

[Wishfilly]

Oh I know I haven’t said anything to her at all! Wouldn’t pressure her right now of course not
Was just making this post as to see about what else I could do.
thank you for replying

No worries!

 

[Arzada]

Is there a certain reason why you don’t?

Most likely for the same reason/s that

21 now which is why I’d be slightly scared of selling her

 

[SO1]

I would not sell a 21 year old horse but sounds like you are a young person who may not have had the experience to think about if you want the responsibility of caring for an older equine when making the decision about purchasing your horse.

If you don't want the responsibility and adapting your activities to fit around what an older equine might be capable of then you need to sell before you get to that point which is about 14.

The market for 21 year old horses that can only hack is quite small so you may not find you have a lot of choice of homes or the sale covering the costs of purchasing a horse that jump. Loaning will be easier especially if you want her back to retire.

If the plan is to sell to get funds in order to buy a jumping horse that won't work I don't think.

If she is a nice hacking horse you will be able to find a loan home I expect without too much problem.

I would loan a horse like yours but I would not buy a horse that would be difficult to sell. I think it often takes 6 months to a year to see if a partnership is going to work.

I have a 20 year old he doesn't jump either now but I accept my responsibility and will do what is within his capabilities he can still do veteran showing and I love doing that. I can only afford one horse and he could live to be 40 and I would be happy if he did even if it meant no jumping for 20 years. I see people doing jumping with their young horses and I think that looks fun but I would swap my old boy for them. I have my horse 15 years and done lots of activities with him including jumping and sponsored rides when he was younger.

It is too late now but if jumping is really important then you should sell at around 14.

 

[JBM]

I would not sell a 21 year old horse but sounds like you are a young person who may not have had the experience to think about if you want the responsibility of caring for an older equine when making the decision about purchasing your horse.

If you don't want the responsibility and adapting your activities to fit around what an older equine might be capable of then you need to sell before you get to that point which is about 14.

The market for 21 year old horses that can only hack is quite small so you may not find you have a lot of choice of homes or the sale covering the costs of purchasing a horse that jump. Loaning will be easier especially if you want her back to retire.

If the plan is to sell to get funds in order to buy a jumping horse that won't work I don't think.

If she is a nice hacking horse you will be able to find a loan home I expect without too much problem.

I would loan a horse like yours but I would not buy a horse that would be difficult to sell. I think it often takes 6 months to a year to see if a partnership is going to work.

I have a 20 year old he doesn't jump either now but I accept my responsibility and will do what is within his capabilities he can still do veteran showing and I love doing that. I can only afford one horse and he could live to be 40 and I would be happy if he did even if it meant no jumping for 20 years. I see people doing jumping with their young horses and I think that looks fun but I would swap my old boy for them. I have my horse 15 years and done lots of activities with him including jumping and sponsored rides when he was younger.

It is too late now but if jumping is really important then you should sell at around 14.

14 seems very young? I had Judy a year and half and she was jumping amazing when I got her. She can still jump and never knocks a pole it just doesn’t interest her as much as hacking does so I don’t make her. She loves getting out to see things so arena work bores her

 

[Wishfilly]

14 seems very young? I had Judy a year and half and she was jumping amazing when I got her. She can still jump and never knocks a pole it just doesn’t interest her as much as hacking does so I don’t make her. She loves getting out to see things so arena work bores her

The market of people who will buy a horse older than about 14/15 is pretty small, though, and prices are a lot lower as a consequence. Yes, a lot of horses will go on until their 20s, but equally a lot still do start to go wrong around 17/18/19- or become more expensive to keep, and need a bit of a quieter life. So people are wary of buying horses older than that- even though a lot of horses still have a lot to give.

You're then talking about a horse who, even though she can jump, you still want a hacking home for. If she can jump/school, and you've sold her, you can't control what someone does with her- if they find she can jump and jump well, there is every chance they will jump her. Whereas if she is on loan, you can control that.

Is there a reason you/your dad is considering selling? To fund the purchase of a jumping horse in a year's time? Or for other reasons?

 

[JBM]

The market of people who will buy a horse older than about 14/15 is pretty small, though, and prices are a lot lower as a consequence. Yes, a lot of horses will go on until their 20s, but equally a lot still do start to go wrong around 17/18/19- or become more expensive to keep, and need a bit of a quieter life. So people are wary of buying horses older than that- even though a lot of horses still have a lot to give.

You're then talking about a horse who, even though she can jump, you still want a hacking home for. If she can jump/school, and you've sold her, you can't control what someone does with her- if they find she can jump and jump well, there is every chance they will jump her. Whereas if she is on loan, you can control that.

Is there a reason you/your dad is considering selling? To fund the purchase of a jumping horse in a year's time? Or for other reasons?

My dad has been pressuring me to sell her pretty much since I got her..he’s very much an if the animal doesn’t make money get rid of it type of person. I’m the only one who likes horses in a dairy family ??‍ I think I just have to keep my will stronger tho as I wouldn’t trust anyone else to look after her now I get very attached to my animals. And this thread has definitely confirmed my worries so It’ll be loan homes!
She can jump a meter 20 in shape but isn’t great against a clock as she likes to take her time.
I would be hoping to fund another horse next year but I’m just going to have to save up!

 

[BeansNsausages]

I think if the existing loaner wanted to buy the horse, that would be okay.

I would not consider putting her on the open market.

 

[Wishfilly]

My dad has been pressuring me to sell her pretty much since I got her..he’s very much an if the animal doesn’t make money get rid of it type of person. I’m the only one who likes horses in a dairy family ??‍ I think I just have to keep my will stronger tho as I wouldn’t trust anyone else to look after her now I get very attached to my animals. And this thread has definitely confirmed my worries so It’ll be loan homes!
She can jump a meter 20 in shape but isn’t great against a clock as she likes to take her time.
I would be hoping to fund another horse next year but I’m just going to have to save up!

That sounds tricky, and I'm sorry. Could you say to him that if you sold her now you wouldn't make any money on her, so you'd rather keep her- at least on loan she isn't costing you any money?

 

[JBM]

That sounds tricky, and I'm sorry. Could you say to him that if you sold her now you wouldn't make any money on her, so you'd rather keep her- at least on loan she isn't costing you any money?

I’ll say it to him but he’s no badness in him knows she’s mine and wouldn’t sell her if I didn’t want to so hopefully he just gets over it! Unfortunately for now he is the horse taxi so have to keep him in the loop for different loan homes

 

[Fred66]

You could look into leasing rather than selling. Similar to loan but where they pay you so much per annum / month. Normally this would be for horses that are out competing but no reason why it can’t work for any horse

 

[bonny]

You could look into leasing rather than selling. Similar to loan but where they pay you so much per annum / month. Normally this would be for horses that are out competing but no reason why it can’t work for any horse

Why would someone pay for all the keep of a 21 year old hacking horse and then pay the owner on top for the privilege ?

 

[I'm Dun]

You could look into leasing rather than selling. Similar to loan but where they pay you so much per annum / month. Normally this would be for horses that are out competing but no reason why it can’t work for any horse

There is every reason. Who in their right mind is going to lease a 21yr old hacking horse when they can go out and purchase one for a small sum, or loan one for free

 

[AmyMay]

I’m amazed your dad has that attitude- being a farmer.

 

[JBM]

I’m amazed your dad has that attitude- being a farmer.

Well dads opinion is that the cows and sheep make money and Judy doesn’t..in his mind that’s important where as the sheep and cows stress me out and Judy makes me happy..so she’s more important to me!

 

[Fred66]

There is every reason. Who in their right mind is going to lease a 21yr old hacking horse when they can go out and purchase one for a small sum, or loan one for free

OP said prior to it going out on loan it was competing its just hacking in its current loan home. A safe hacking horse is not always that easy to get hold of and have you seen the price of horses recently??
Because at 21 if a horse does its job and is perfect but you know it’s age is against buying it would be a no go but paying £50-100 a month for what you want might be preferable to committing upwards of £5000 on another horse.

It was said as an option to consider their might not be a market for this one but it is something to consider

 

[Wishfilly]

OP said prior to it going out on loan it was competing its just hacking in its current loan home. A safe hacking horse is not always that easy to get hold of and have you seen the price of horses recently??
Because at 21 if a horse does its job and is perfect but you know it’s age is against buying it would be a no go but paying £50-100 a month for what you want might be preferable to committing upwards of £5000 on another horse.

It was said as an option to consider their might not be a market for this one but it is something to consider

In the UK, leases of this kind don't really exist, and I think a lot of people would think you were cheeky for asking- I know it's a lot more common in the US, though.

Even though it makes sense on some levels, I think most people wouldn't go for it on principle.