Sending to stud to foal?

[MarinaBay]

My mare is in foal for the 1st time. She is due at the end of June next year.

The original plan was to send her back to stud 1 month before she is due to then have the foal there, then bring them both back when ready.

When I picked her up from stud she didn't want to load - this has always been an issue so I was not surprised. She went on after 5 mins and a big tantrum. She is scared not being stubborn, can only go in a box. She passes out in the trailer but a whole different story. The yard is 30 mins from stud. She travelled fine but was obviously stressed about it.

So when I got to the yard I decided I would keep her at the yard and let her foal there instead. My YO's mare is pregnant so they are turned out together and if all goes to plan they will be turned out together with babies for playmates etc etc. There is a flat at the yard I can stay in when the time comes and can borrow a foaling alarm and the vets are 15 mins away. The problem is I have NO experience of foaling at all, read lots of books but I know it will never prepare me if she needs help.

My YO think she should stay. She used to own Angel says she will help me as much as possible and the groom there used to work at stud and said she will of course help as well.

I then spoken to my vet when he came to scan and he advised that she should go back to stud to foal and to travel them both back a few days after the birth once they have bonded. And to sedate her to travel.

My YO said thats because he doesn't want numerous phone calls at 2am! Plus if she goes to stud when they come back mummy & baby will have to be isolated.

So opinions from people please as I am in a dilema! I know I am planning ahead but I know the next 8 months will fly by!

 

[snoopmummy]

Re the trouble travelling - we had a mare who used to collapse when travelling and we found the solution was not to tie her up - that way she naturally found her balance and we didn't have trouble after that. Appreciate that it might not be possible though.
If she was being put back in foal then perhaps sensible to send her to the stud to foal, have her covered again then brought back - that way there are fewer journeys to worry about.

 

[Touchwood]

My personal opinion, and something that may not be agreed with, but it is something I feel quite strongly about.....if you have NO experience, you should not be foaling a mare down yourself. We (and many other stud owners), have years and years of experience. In the 15 minutes it will take for your vet to get to you, you can very easily lose the foal if you do not know what you are doing. The vast majority of foalings are very simple and straightforward, many others need a bit of assistance but it is not life threatening as long as done within a reasonable time frame. In a small minority of situations, immediate and skilled assistance is the difference between having certainly a live foal, maybe even a live mare.

For me - the risk is too great. Every single year I hear about someone who has lost a foal for the most simple of reasons.

 

[mojito]

If i were you i would keep her at home. How are you ever supposed to get any experience if you send her away? Like you said you have your yard owner and another groom with stud experience on hand to help and the vet i assume is not too far away. One of the best parts of breeding horses is being there for the birth of your foal. Horses are desigend to do this by themselves and as long as you are there to get help if its needed thats all you can do! Enjoy the experience!

 

[minime]

As long as you have her vaccinated for everything (i.e Rino ) and you have her scanned to make sure she doesn't have placenta previa I don't see why you can't keep her at home. The stress of travelling and the isolation time after arrival makes it very stressing for mother and baby, also mares are more comfortable giving birth in familiar surroundings. Mine nearly always give birth in the field during the day surrounded by the other mares and the stallion to protect her even though in her stable at night she has loads of straw and its warm and safe plus I am there at night to keep an eye out. This year after a month of sleeping with them they ALL gave birth during the day out in the field

 

[Touchwood]

If i were you i would keep her at home. How are you ever supposed to get any experience if you send her away? Like you said you have your yard owner and another groom with stud experience on hand to help and the vet i assume is not too far away. One of the best parts of breeding horses is being there for the birth of your foal. Horses are desigend to do this by themselves and as long as you are there to get help if its needed thats all you can do! Enjoy the experience!

And one of the worst parts of breeding is watching a mare or foal die in front of you and knowing if you had been experienced it wouldn't have happened.
The responsible way you gain experience is by working alongside knowledgeable people who can show you what to do before you do it alone.

The reason the vet is saying to send her away is because like every vet I know, he has probably had his fair share of being called out to disasters that were totally preventable.

 

[AmyMay]

I'd keep her at home. You have an experienced (I'm assuming ) YO on hand, an equine vet, and the ability to monitor her in person throughout the night.

I can understand others voiceing concern - but everyone has to start somewhere. And as long as you have support there from an experienced person, see no reason why she shouldn't stay at home.


It's the most magical experience......

 

[Lgd]

Difficult one.
My mare has just had her second foal at the stud who owns the stallion I used. The only reason she went is that there was a tentative plan to cover her again if all went well and I felt she was up to it (she is 21yo now). from previous experience with her she is best with fresh semen so that meant waiting until foalie was old enough to travel which meant very late foal.

I foaled her at home the first time BUT I have worked on a stud in the past so had a good amount of experience (Belle is my fourth generation of the same family as I bought her dam from the stud). It was still completely nerve-wracking as it was my first home-bred foal and then Belle was a slight malpresentation, nothing serious and only needed a little assistance, even so if I hadn't known what to do it could have been hard for the mare to deliver. I also work full time so took three weeks off for foaling - even then she took it down to the wire as mare went to 354 days and foaled in the early hours of the day I was due back to work!

She is back in foal (fingers crossed pending her 100 day scan) and I will have to decide which route to take next spring i.e. foal at home or back to the stud. I am leaning more towards keeping her home as she is not being put back in foal and as an added bonus my friend's hubby is an equine vet and they have just moved to a house 2 minutes away so have fantastic help on tap if it were needed. i will be taking more holiday this time :lol:

ETA In your situation I think you would be better sending away.

 

[mojito]

And one of the worst parts of breeding is watching a mare or foal die in front of you and knowing if you had been experienced it wouldn't have happened.

I agree 100% with this but op already said she has two people on hand to help and the vet is only aphone call away.

 

[S_N]

Just because there is someone who has worked on a stud hopefully to hand, doesn't mean that they have foaling experience. So check that one out. How much foaling experience does your YO have?

 

[the watcher]

I have had sole charge of a mare twice now when she has foaled, I had never done it, never seen it, before. I did, however read every book i could find (including some pretty gory veterinary books) and watch every possible video so I was prepared to spot signs of distress and deal with most usual problems. The vet was made aware during office hours of when delivery looked likely.

It was fine and I would do it again, especially if it meant not having to travel a reluctant mare away. However that was my choice and you have to base yours on how confident you are in your ability to deal with any problems and the skills of those around you. Everybody has to start somewhere.

 

[luckilotti]

My answer is - dont decide until next year!
i know you are trying to be organised etc but heres my thinking.....
i myself would go with foaling her at home, learn as much as you can before hand - go on some breeding/foaling courses if any local studs offer them - they will prob be before your mare is due.
But... be prepared to take her to the stud - after all, its quite a while yet and things can and do happen - the groom may leave, the replacement may never have been near a foal.... the YO may decide to book a holiday for that time of year.... or end up going away for a few days for a wedding or something.... in that case - you would be bettter at the stud.
i hope what i am saying makes sense?

i'd also maybe speak to the stud, tell them you really want to foal at home if possible and what advice can they offer, they may tell you of another practice who may get to you quicker if needed. Would it be possible for you to have the stud owner 'on call as such' depending on when they have others foaling - could you ask them to be at the other end of the phone when foaling begins?

hope it all goes well whatever you decide on.

 

[MarinaBay]

Thank you for all your responses. I really appreciate all of your opinions.

I will speak to the stud and see what they think. I am not sure if she will go back into foal or not - ideally I want to see how she copes with the pregnancy etc. She is a lovely mare, very intelligent, loving but also very nervous of new people and new surroundings. She knows my vet very well - they have 'an understanding' so to speak. She also knows my YO and the groom. The groom may leave but she has said she is willing to come back and help if she does - I have already asked her this many times! YO is a very experienced horse woman, has been to a few births and plans to do her maree with the help of said groom.

LuckiLotti - Your post makes a lot of sense. I am sure that the stud would come to me if I asked them to. May cost me more but I am more then happy to pay that.

I have heard some devastating stories of mares dying when foaling and I would never forgive myself if anything happened to Angel.

One thing that worries me very much is when Angel was at stud, there was a colt on the field near her and the mares owners only lived next door - 100yd walk - she made them wait 3 weeks to take him home. When I was there seeing Angel he was clearly being shown to potential stallion users like advertising.

I am not going to decide till next year. I will see how it all goes and will speak to the stud see what they say. My RI works at the stud and lives 5 mins from new yard so I am sure he would be my SOS!

Thanks so so much for all your replies.

 

[Faithkat]

I've only ever bred one foal and the mare went back to the stud (where she was covered) to foal. The mare did foal without any problems but the stud have years of experience and the foaling fee was the best money I've ever spent - for peace of mind if nothing else. I have no facilities at home and the margin of time you have if there are problems is just too small. My nearest vet is the best part of an hour away and that hour could be far too late. I had decided that she would go back to the stud to foal before I even brought her home after covering!

 

[AmyMay]

When I was there seeing Angel he was clearly being shown to potential stallion users like advertising.

Of course he was - the best advertisement is the off spring, and that is not unusual.

And if the stud has a minimum stay of 3 weeks after foaling - again, very sensible.

 

[Lgd]

General recommendation is not to travel any foal under three weeks old unless on veterinary advice.

 

[S_N]

General recommendation is not to travel any foal under three weeks old unless on veterinary advice.

There are actually directives about how many months in-foal a mare can be travelled and how old a foal should be before transport, unless an emergency. Off the top of my head it's no later than 10months in foal and the foal should be 26 days old. IMO this is open to slight interpretation with regards to type of transport, experience of driver, attitude of mare and length of journey.

 

[Clodagh]

Well Dixie was about 370 days when she got taken to stud!
I am in two minds about the foaling at home. I wish I had seen it and seen Piper get up and so on, but then he was so jammed stuck that he would have died with me - an inexperienced person - trying to deal with it. Who knows, I may have lost Dix too.
He came home after 2 weeks, he needed a lot of care to start with and Sally was the person to do it, I couldn't have managed.
I'm only half an hour from the stud and Dix is a good traveller.
On the note of why should the stud person be at the end of the phone line 24/7, I don't agree with this. This isn't aimed at OP but if you ring and say 'The foals stuck' all the stud owner can say is call the vet, and you should have already done that. Why, if you won't pay for their advice (as in livery/foaling down costs), should they be on call?

 

[JanetGeorge]

The BIGGEST danger to a mare foaling is no-one being there. The most common cause of foals dying at birth is suffocation in the bag. Even an inexperienced person can cope with the VAST majority of foalings as long as:

1. They are THERE - at the right time - and don't panic!
2. They have read up on all the possible problems and ideally gone on a good foaling course.
3. They are there - at the right time - and don't panic.
4. They call the vet sooner rather than later!

There ARE foalings tht are too damn difficult for a novice - they're rare - but they DO happen. Last year a VERY experienced old mare of mine - who'd NEVER had a foaling difficulty in 8 years with me - had an anterior dogsitter (one of the foal's hind legs presented over the foal's head!!) I've delivered a lot of foals - and I nearly panicked - especially when I rang for the vet and found it was USELESS vet - and she was on another emergency anyway! In the end I delivered a live foal - but it WAS a miracle!

IF you decide to foal the mare at home you MUST book yourself in on a foaling course (Twemlows do a good one.) You MUST be prepared to check the mare every 45 minutes throughout day and night! You CANNOT rely on foaling alarms completely - every different model has its own 'failures'. So you need someone reliable to share foal watch with you - otherwise you WILL fall asleep at the worst possible time!

And you MUST be sure you have a decent vet who will get to you FAST if you need help!

 

[AmyMay]

Brilliant advice Janet.

 

[burtonse]

i would get her back to the stud to foal. you have to weigh up the stress of the journey to the potential stress of something going wrong which i reckon could be a lot higher. i bred my first foal last year and decided to take the mare back to stud and was very glad i did as she had a difficult birth and then rejected the foal for the first week. if it hadnt have been for the studs knowledge and perseverance we may of had to hand rear him.

i ditto what janet says especially about having a vet that will definitely get to you quickly if you do decide to foal at home.

 

[legend22]

I would foal at home. Everyone has to start somewhere. Why not see if you can go and help out at a local stud during foaling time? At least that would give you some idea of what to expect and what the 'norm' is. Make sure you have a vet on call in case of problems. We use a different vets for our breeding than our general veterinary work. They are constantly on stand by and expect to get called out at odd times at short notice! Yes, it is deverstating to lose a mare or foal but it is a wonderful and unforgettable experience to see your new horse being born!

 

[magic104]

Im another for foaling at home, far less stressful for her. She is not due until June, why dont you see if you can be present at some foalings? If you can find the time & a stud is happy for you to observe, why dont you offer your help with a foal watch?

It could be a different matter if your YO did not have any experience, but you say she does. Mares can often take the situation out of your hands anyway & foal when you least expect. Im not sure I would want a foal travelling back with a mare who is so obvisouly distressed by it. If though you are planning on putting her back in-foal then I would take her to stud & let her foal down there. You have some months yet to think it over, find out all you can & weigh everything up.

 

[MarinaBay]

Thanks so much for all your replies. Some really helpful advice. I will do a lot of thinking, speak to a lot of people and see what the stud think also.