lastchancer
Well-Known Member
PM'd you x
Sensible advice/suggestions for this lads future please.
- Thread starter lindsayH
- Start date
Kallibear
Well-Known Member
I have a horse similar horse (though prob not quite as bad).
He was VERY nervous and anxious initially. He'd never had bad handling, just very little, and he didn't really 'understand' humans.
I suspect he'd have reacted exactly the same to the kind of backing your poor boy got.
Toby didn't fear humans, nor was he a spooky horse (he's fabulous out hacking as very little spooks him) - he just didn't understand or fully trust humans. He couldn't 'read' them (or their intentions) and that made him anxious.
All my boy needed was time and patience . It took 6 months of constant handling (but not pussy footing around him) before he wouldn't leap 2ft in the air and shoot to the end of his rope if you so much as coughed. He just needed to trust.
He is still now sharp and sensitive but he trusts implicitly. I can do anything to him, move at any speed, slip on the ice and grab ahold of his rug, throw things at him. He's learnt the READ humans and relax around them.
He's never been difficult or dangerous to ride because he was never given the chance to get a fright, but he so easily could have been!
You boy is the type of horse I'd have been very interested in taking on but i've already got one!
I would give him a second chance but time (which cost money usually) will be against you. I doubt he'll be able to send off for 6weeks to be broken - he sounds like the type of horse who needs 6 MONTHS of bonding with a human on an intense one-to-one before he's even near ready to think of sitting on again. So someone who's looking for a quick project to bring on would be the worst poosible person for him. But a loan to someone who's looks for a 'forever horse' might be suitable.
P.s - have you tried him on any calmers? The made a different to my horse's jumpi-ness!
He was VERY nervous and anxious initially. He'd never had bad handling, just very little, and he didn't really 'understand' humans.
I suspect he'd have reacted exactly the same to the kind of backing your poor boy got.
Toby didn't fear humans, nor was he a spooky horse (he's fabulous out hacking as very little spooks him) - he just didn't understand or fully trust humans. He couldn't 'read' them (or their intentions) and that made him anxious.
All my boy needed was time and patience . It took 6 months of constant handling (but not pussy footing around him) before he wouldn't leap 2ft in the air and shoot to the end of his rope if you so much as coughed. He just needed to trust.
He is still now sharp and sensitive but he trusts implicitly. I can do anything to him, move at any speed, slip on the ice and grab ahold of his rug, throw things at him. He's learnt the READ humans and relax around them.
He's never been difficult or dangerous to ride because he was never given the chance to get a fright, but he so easily could have been!
You boy is the type of horse I'd have been very interested in taking on but i've already got one!
I would give him a second chance but time (which cost money usually) will be against you. I doubt he'll be able to send off for 6weeks to be broken - he sounds like the type of horse who needs 6 MONTHS of bonding with a human on an intense one-to-one before he's even near ready to think of sitting on again. So someone who's looking for a quick project to bring on would be the worst poosible person for him. But a loan to someone who's looks for a 'forever horse' might be suitable.
P.s - have you tried him on any calmers? The made a different to my horse's jumpi-ness!
GREYSMEADOW
Well-Known Member
He looks stunning. Is it worth taking him to one of the www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk or even www.practicalhorsemanship.co.uk demos they are always looking for suitable equines and then you can continue with his training from there on. They even came and collected a friends horse who refused to go in horse box or trailer and it was too far to hack! They built his confidence and trained him to go into both horse box and trailer with great results. I think there is also a website on project horses - www.projecthorses.co.uk
Do let us know how you get on. Good Luck.
Do let us know how you get on. Good Luck.
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Can't anyone here who has done so well with "problem" horses in the past take him on?
I'd also recommend Jason Webb, he's in Kent, just Google him.
Personally, I don't think it's fair to use troubled horses like this in demos, but I know many would disagree with me. If the trainers think they can fix the horse, and want the publicity, then maybe they could video it rather than subjecting the horse to a demo.
I'd also recommend Jason Webb, he's in Kent, just Google him.
Personally, I don't think it's fair to use troubled horses like this in demos, but I know many would disagree with me. If the trainers think they can fix the horse, and want the publicity, then maybe they could video it rather than subjecting the horse to a demo.
GREYSMEADOW
Well-Known Member
Interesting read from exracerfan and have seen advertised the Buckstop device in free horse mags - see www.stopthathorse.com. Don't know if this device can be recommended/helpful.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
From memory the backing process went something like this: First session he was lunged and long-reined, as I said, his ground work was already very well established. Next day, guy lunged, then lent over and walked a few steps fine, then sat in saddle fine. 3rd day guy lunged, then got on went to walk off, one massive buck and he was off. Got back on and instantly trotted off round school 'keeping him going forward'. Horse looked worried but was fine for 2 laps before launching into his rodeo act.
[/ QUOTE ]
Poor chap! (Your horse, not the idiot who tried to back him!) Of course, this is an extreme case of 'predator on back' syndrome. It manifests itself in different ways - some horses will buck immediately, others won't buck as long as the rider sits VERY still. But sooner or later, the fear of the 'predator' kicks in - and they either buck - or run. They are far more likely to buck if they are being held - or led - in the early stages (because they can't run!)
Once they've succeeded in getting the 'predator' off their back, they'll do it again and again - so you HAVE to take a different approach (unless you enjoy being bucked off!)
This chap - on his second day ridden -
not a nervous youngster at ALL - but he bucked like STINK the day before, when the rider sat up and he was led forward. He'd been perfectly happy with the rider lying across him - because he could still see him and knew it was O. up there - not a horse-eating monster. Because I was holding him, and leading him forward, he lost focus on O. - who had effectively 'disappeared' - and he had a monster on his back.
So the next day O. progressed without any help - first lying across him and steering him around in walk, then throwing his leg over but still staying well forward, talking non-stop, and steering him around in walk, then sitting up - still talking. Horse KNEW who was on him - and was happy with it.
Of course, O. had worked the horse on the lunge with saddle for 2 weeks before getting on. The ODD horse you can get on within a day or two, but most need at least a week of working with the trainer - on the lunge - getting comfortable with the saddle, stirrups flapping, learning voice commands etc etc. BEFORE you get on them - and it's the MOST important part of the process.
With some, we'll send them straight out on the lunge the second the rider is in the saddle (hanging onto a neckstrap!) For many horses, if they can run, that's what they do - and once they've done 15-20 circuits they realise it's a HARMLESS 'predator'.
What you DON'T do is repeat the same 'method' when it's back-fired - you take a different approach. Ideally, you aim to pick the 'method' before the getting bucked off stage - but you don't always succeed.
The problem with this chap is that he's learned he CAN get rid of the 'predator' - it's a successful tactic which has 'saved his life' on numerous occasions! So as long as a trainer uses the same approach as previous 'predators', he'll get the same treatment!
I've got a pretty fair idea of the approach I would use initially with this chap but won't detail here as it's not without risk (to the rider) and shouldn't be tried by anyone who isn't VERY experienced with problem horses.
From memory the backing process went something like this: First session he was lunged and long-reined, as I said, his ground work was already very well established. Next day, guy lunged, then lent over and walked a few steps fine, then sat in saddle fine. 3rd day guy lunged, then got on went to walk off, one massive buck and he was off. Got back on and instantly trotted off round school 'keeping him going forward'. Horse looked worried but was fine for 2 laps before launching into his rodeo act.
[/ QUOTE ]
Poor chap! (Your horse, not the idiot who tried to back him!) Of course, this is an extreme case of 'predator on back' syndrome. It manifests itself in different ways - some horses will buck immediately, others won't buck as long as the rider sits VERY still. But sooner or later, the fear of the 'predator' kicks in - and they either buck - or run. They are far more likely to buck if they are being held - or led - in the early stages (because they can't run!)
Once they've succeeded in getting the 'predator' off their back, they'll do it again and again - so you HAVE to take a different approach (unless you enjoy being bucked off!)
This chap - on his second day ridden -
not a nervous youngster at ALL - but he bucked like STINK the day before, when the rider sat up and he was led forward. He'd been perfectly happy with the rider lying across him - because he could still see him and knew it was O. up there - not a horse-eating monster. Because I was holding him, and leading him forward, he lost focus on O. - who had effectively 'disappeared' - and he had a monster on his back.
So the next day O. progressed without any help - first lying across him and steering him around in walk, then throwing his leg over but still staying well forward, talking non-stop, and steering him around in walk, then sitting up - still talking. Horse KNEW who was on him - and was happy with it.
Of course, O. had worked the horse on the lunge with saddle for 2 weeks before getting on. The ODD horse you can get on within a day or two, but most need at least a week of working with the trainer - on the lunge - getting comfortable with the saddle, stirrups flapping, learning voice commands etc etc. BEFORE you get on them - and it's the MOST important part of the process.
With some, we'll send them straight out on the lunge the second the rider is in the saddle (hanging onto a neckstrap!) For many horses, if they can run, that's what they do - and once they've done 15-20 circuits they realise it's a HARMLESS 'predator'.
What you DON'T do is repeat the same 'method' when it's back-fired - you take a different approach. Ideally, you aim to pick the 'method' before the getting bucked off stage - but you don't always succeed.
The problem with this chap is that he's learned he CAN get rid of the 'predator' - it's a successful tactic which has 'saved his life' on numerous occasions! So as long as a trainer uses the same approach as previous 'predators', he'll get the same treatment!
I've got a pretty fair idea of the approach I would use initially with this chap but won't detail here as it's not without risk (to the rider) and shouldn't be tried by anyone who isn't VERY experienced with problem horses.
JACQSZOO
Well-Known Member
I am reserecting <sp> this thread as I have been to Janets today to watch a couple of breakers being worked. I have a young horse who I am looking to be started later this year and was recommended Janet by a couple of people.
I was lucky enough to meet Clyde (gorgeous Chap Lindsay) And have to say how impressed I was. He looked confident and calm, he will always have that spark that the good horses have and was a little exuberant going into canter but it was a typical youngster moment and he was settled within moments.
Certainly knowing Clydes story and seeing him worked today has confirmed that Janet and her team deserve the reputation that they have.
I hope I haven't posted out of turn.
I was lucky enough to meet Clyde (gorgeous Chap Lindsay) And have to say how impressed I was. He looked confident and calm, he will always have that spark that the good horses have and was a little exuberant going into canter but it was a typical youngster moment and he was settled within moments.
Certainly knowing Clydes story and seeing him worked today has confirmed that Janet and her team deserve the reputation that they have.
I hope I haven't posted out of turn.
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Well, a new thread might have been easier. I've just read the whole bliddy 7 pages, then realised it's an old thread and this horse went to Janet and things have moved on.
TallyHo123
Well-Known Member
Like a few others have said, how about driving?
He is gorgeous btw & I hope you get everything sorted
He is gorgeous btw & I hope you get everything sorted
Shysmum
Well-Known Member
oops, posted about aromatherapy till I realised it was an old thread *sigh*
Charlie007
Well-Known Member
There was a thread on here yesterday. Someone was looking for their next project, can't remember if they were willing to pay etc but might be worth a try?
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
IT'S AN OLD THREAD. He went to Janet George, who of course has turned him around.
Spudlet
Well-Known Member
Just trawled and found a more recent update thread, and thought others might like to see if they, like me, missed it!
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=376247
Good Boy Clyde
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=376247
Good Boy Clyde
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
Always pays to check the date!
And thanks, JACQSZOO, for those kind remarks. Sorry I had to disappear on you - but live buyers for yearling colts are thin on the ground at present and must be nurtured!! Hope O. looked after you and explained what he was doing - and why!
lindsayH
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry to anyone who has read through the whole thing thinking it was new, but thank you JACQSZOO for your compliments about Clyde! I can't believe this thread was 7 months ago now and how much things have changed since then!