Serious Liver Damage - How to Treat?!

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tor_c

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Hi Guys, apologies if this should be in the Vet section, but i know everyone uses this section more.

Basically, i know of a rescued mare who has been diagnosed with liver damage as a result of ragwort/st. john's wort poisoning. The owner is yet to find out what percentage of the liver is still functioning, but the vet said it was "significantly damaged".

The vet is coming out next week to put the horse on a drip and flush her system out, then re-do the bloods 10 days later to check liver function and see if there has been any improvement. If no improvement, they want to do a liver biopsy. However, what would be the point of the biopsy? Wouldnt it just repeat what the 2 previous blood tests had shown? Would you bother getting it done?

The mare isnt jaundiced (yet), but is VERY photosensitive. She's also rather lethargic and underweight (unsure if the weight is related to the poisoning or to neglect).

I've read that once the horse is showing physical symptoms of liver damage (for example, photosensitivty), the liver is already at least 70% damaged and cannot regenerate. Does anybody know if this is true? I've also read that they can function reasonably well with only 25% function, but for how long? And would the horse need to be on medication?

How much of a role does the liver play during pregnancy?

Any help would be greatly appreciated as neither myself or the owner have ever had any dealings with liver damage.

Many thanks!

Tor. x
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yes its true they dont often survive and they dont norammly eat ragwort unless not enough grassing and lack off food

you seriously want to have a deep thought as to the mares condition and where you want to go to
it could be costly and no end result
if i was you i would have a diffinate serious talk to vet and ask them in laymens terms what her chances are for surival
then go from there
 
The only thing that I have heard of to treat liver damage is a product from Global Herbs - not quite sure what the name is. There is a resident vet there who can help.

I also thought that when the symptoms show up the liver is too damaged to be able to be repaired.
 
Naf BLK (blood liver kidney). Phone NAF and they will send you some if you explain.
Also, Vit B 12
Visorbin (green liquid)
No sugar or green grass (only 16% protein allowed)
grapefruit
Liquorice
Milk Thislte
Nettle

Harley had mega liver damage and this was his diet for a year, he is now 4.
Expensive but worth a try, it worked for me
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Good luck with your search Tor and got everything crossed for horsey-o. I read that low protein and high carbohydrate was an essential diet for liver damaged horses. I think there's a product made by HONEYCHOP HORSE FEEDS (Honeychop with apple looks best bet) that looks very low in protein and high in sugar/carbs. I'll drop them an e-mail to ask for advice. Somebody very knowledgeable about these things told me that native horses and ponies are incredibly tough and indestructable so if this girle is a native, don't give up on her yet. She would let you know if she'd had enough, believe me.

{{{{{HUGE HUGS}}}} to you and owner.
 
Ellen Collinson does a herbal mix, which includes Milk Thistle, which helps rebuild the liver. the liver is the only organ that can heal itself, iirc.
a friend gave herself ragwort poisoning by spending 2 days pulling it without gloves... doctor had no idea what to do (!!), but she took Ellen's herbs and is fine.
Ellen's not expensive, and is very very knowledgeable. PM me if you can't find her contact details on the web.
 
My gelding had serious liver phorosensitivity due to liver damage (we never found out how) and was in a serious way when we found him - too serious to travel back to the yard that day.
The second blood tests came back as almost normal. My understanding was that the liver biopsy gives a good inidcation of what caused the poisoining, thankfully we never needed it.
I put his recovery down to milk thistle, my vet was very surprised as we really thought we were going to lose him. We were hoping for a day at a time for about 10 days.
I kept him in an all over fly rug to keep the sun off as even in his stable the sun got on his neck and face (he was coloured). He lost 50% of his skin, it literally died and peeled off in huge chunks (spent a fortune on udder cream). The hair in mostplaces eventually grew back, it was the backs of his legs that were most badly affected and although one did come back, 7 months late the other one hadn't. He didn't stay photosensitive (which I was concerned about) and returned to full health, please stay positive.
Sadly lost him in a seperate accident 7 months later. RIP Cracker and Flint
 
If my memory is correct then the international expert on Ragwort poisoning is Professor Derek Knottenbelt at the University of Liverpools equine department. He is developing a blood test to determine the amount of liver damage in horses that have eaten Ragwort. You can contact him on knotty@liv.ac.uk He is interested to hear from anyone who knows or suspects their horse has eaten ragwort.

The ILPH do a small leaflet on Ragwort.

Hope this helps you.

I would get in touch with him or ask your vet to and see if he can give you some advice once you have the results of the test.
 
my TB has recently been diagnosed with liver damage - he is jaundiced as well apparently. He was prescribed Milk Thistle for 10 days and I have just had the second blood test done to seehow things are progressing.

He is fine in himself - eating like a pig as normal. And I have no idea if he is photosensitive, doesn't seem to be, coat etc is shiny and fine. I think he has had this liver damage for a long time (long before I owned him) and the only thing that made me get the vet out was a hugely bloated belly and loss of condition everywhere else and was doing large cowpat like poos. The milk thistle seems to have sorted his droppings out and his belly has reduced in size, still a bit bloated though.

I am now a little more worried than I was before after reading this thread!
 
he is an incredibly kind person, very easy to talk to, freely gives of his time to explain in layman's terms etc. i contacted him last year about a different ailment (headshaking) and learnt more about it in 10 minutes on the phone to him, than in the rest of my life! i was amazed to even get to speak to him, let alone that he would give so much time so happily.
 
If anybody answered your question literally they would be breaking the law.

It is at the very least unwise to ask such questions on an open forum because they can only be answered authoritatively by a qualified vet who is in posession of the full case history. The best advice you could receive from this forum is to disregard the posts in this thread and to discuss the issue with the vet concerned if you are interested.

General principles gleaned out of text books or anecdotal reports of similar cases are of no practical value in complex cases like this.
 
No, the mare obviously wouldnt be treated with anything someone had recommended just because they'd said so! It would be researched first! It's good to get other peoples' experiences - vets cant be expected to know everything, so with lots of info at hand, the owner can ask the right questions.

Anyhoo's, Prof. Knottenbelt has been emailed and bless him - he's away in Denmark, but has already emailed back with tons of info and has promised to call when he gets back! How good of him is that?!

Such a shame though, because he's been doing lots of research into ragwort blood testing, but is struggling through lack of funding to finish the job off.
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It is designed to detect current or recent ragwort ingestion so that the diet can be adjusted to avoid any further damage before the liver reaches a point of no return.
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Tor.
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No Puddicat is not a vet. I believe, although my memory could be playing tricks on me, that she is an *environmental health person who goes around exterminating rats and suchlike.

*Disclaimer in case Puddi decides she wants to sue me*
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hmmmm i got the impression from some of her posts she must have some sort of veterinary training due to her very outspoken comments on advice given by some forum members.
 
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