Seriously bad hands of local riders.

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showqa

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You know, we have so much discussion about the cruelty of rolkur, certain methods used in showjumping, etc - and all of this is invaluable and essential discussion. BUT I must say, there are at least two riders around here, they don't take lessons, attend clinics etc or make any effort to improve their technique - they would call themselves happy hackers. Their hands are DREADFUL!!!! I mean that I wince when I see them because they are constantly hauling on the mouths of their horses, to the point where the horse is clearly, CLEARLY very uncomfortable and increasingly tense as a result. The one horse has only been owned by this woman a year and when he arrived he was a nice looking, quite forward and fit cob. I swear to you you would not know it was the same horse today. It struck me - there is never a campaign to try and reach these people and without a shadow of a doubt they are causing serious discomfort to their horses. How do you reach these riders and stop them slipping through the net?
 
I had a ride judge yesterday at a Riding Club show how socked and sawed on every single horses mouth whilst digging them in the ribs with her heels - she was riding the racehorses - I'm impressed that all bar one of them put up with it! And that's why I tend to steer clear of riding club shows.
 
Interesting question but its like alcoholics you cannot help them until they want to be helped.
 
Not limited to happy hackers with no lessons. More common with those who do more ime, what's worrying is that some rs & private instructors teach that.
 
I let my young helper have a sit on my v safe mare the other day, knowing she has regular lessons at local stable and recently been showjumping etc. First thing she did? Winch her head in and give her a massive boot in the ribs! Poor mare nearly fell over :eek: Made immediate mental note not to put her on my v sensitive other mare and immediately went and started re educating her!
 
showqa said:
You know, we have so much discussion about the cruelty of rolkur, certain methods used in showjumping, etc - and all of this is invaluable and essential discussion. BUT I must say, there are at least two riders around here, they don't take lessons, attend clinics etc or make any effort to improve their technique - they would call themselves happy hackers. Their hands are DREADFUL!!!! I mean that I wince when I see them because they are constantly hauling on the mouths of their horses, to the point where the horse is clearly, CLEARLY very uncomfortable and increasingly tense as a result. The one horse has only been owned by this woman a year and when he arrived he was a nice looking, quite forward and fit cob. I swear to you you would not know it was the same horse today. It struck me - there is never a campaign to try and reach these people and without a shadow of a doubt they are causing serious discomfort to their horses. How do you reach these riders and stop them slipping through the net?
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Is this a serious question :confused::eek:

I am sorry, but do you have any idea what an arrogant busybody you sound like?

Sure, we have all seen people that we think 'yikes' about their style, or what they have on their horse, or how they ride it, but to say all that on a public forum!

I think that if you are that concerned about the horses I suggest you offer to buy them, at the same time you explain what you think of their riding skills and how, to save them slipping through the net, you would like to pay for their lessons and clinics ;)
 
You know what Enfys, not even honouring your nonsense with a serious reply. I can see you're just spoiling for a fight.
 
I also knew of people who considered themselves casual riders and happy hackers, and would stand their horse and see-saw on the reins to force the head in. However, I don't think there's much you can do apart from cringe internally.
 
And those same "cringe worthy" happy hackers probably cringe and die everytime they see someone wearing spurs and a grackle jogging sideways down the road.....each to their own.
Their horse, their responsibilty.
 
I was looking at some pics of someone jumping and they were socking the horse in the mouth every time. They were really pleased with the achievement and I didn't feel I could comment in a negative way. It highlights to me the importance of lessons because it's hard to see yourself ;)
 
showqa said:
You know what Enfys, not even honouring your nonsense with a serious reply. I can see you're just spoiling for a fight.
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Me, spoiling for a fight? No, not at all. Just saying it as I see it.

If I were spoiling for a fight I would have called you more than a busybody :)

Btw you changed your location to Llandudno I see :)
 
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I don't agree with you enfys, but everyone's entitled to their own opinions! :)
If it was me riding like that I would genuinely like someone to tell me as I would hate for someone to see me unknowingly causing discomfort to my horse and say nothing.
We all make mistakes and get a bit too comfortable in our own abilities at times, and maybe some people won't take kindly to being told, but at least if you bring it up you haven't just say there and let the horse suffer.
 
Well, I've often had the conversation with people who have appauling hands about softness and lightness. They normally agree with everything you say, because they think your talking about someone else.:D
 
For the record, I am not in anyway suggesting that this is a problem exclusive to the hacking commmunity, nor am I saying that hackers are by definition bad riders. Not at all have I said that! The point was that the riding communiy scrutinises those that compete for their bad practise - and I don't have a problem with that - but there's a whole other community of riders out there who, BECAUSE of the tag happy hackers, are assumed to be much kinder and softer on their horses and that is simply not always the case.

None of us are Carl Hesters, many of us try our hardest and work consistently to creep closer to his model. What concerns me are the people who never ever take a lesson from anyone and yet their horses eyes are almost bulging out of their heads ( and I am NOT exaggerating here), because of how the rider is pulling back on the rein. That is, undisputedly, painful and distressing for a horse. Unless the very most basic books of riding have been re-written in recent years!!
 
When someone with awful hands has never had a lesson its usually pretty easy to kindly get the message across. So much harder when they reply 'but my instructor says...'
 
Pale Rider said:
Well, I've often had the conversation with people who have appauling hands about softness and lightness. They normally agree with everything you say, because they think your talking about someone else.:D
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thats the trick isnt it - CC however well intentioned has to be accepted before they will change. There are good riders who hack as much as there are bad riders at shows, sad mostly for there very tolerant horses.
 
Renvers said:
thats the trick isnt it - CC however well intentioned has to be accepted before they will change. There are good riders who hack as much as there are bad riders at shows, sad mostly for there very tolerant horses.
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I ride with a group of friend's who say they are happy hackers and they generally ride along with loose reins and there's no sawing and yanking going on. Ive been taught to ride on a shorter rein so i do as I feel better prepared for unexpected spooky things. Its also my practice time for improving my hands. I did on one occasion ask someone not to use the reins to punish her horse..she replied ' asked the RI and she advised me to do it! In what school of equitation is it ever ok to yank the reins hard to get a horse to lift it's head?
 
Personally I feel it's best to concerntrate on my own shortcoming while riding and let others get on with it .
Its one of the pleasures of not teaching anymore no one to think about except myself oh and yes and my OH but that's a whole more complicated issue influencing him, very hard .
 
redriverrock said:
Can I just point out that 'happy hackers' are not a lower form of life...and some of us can actually ride quite nicely!
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Well said; I am a good rider who chooses not to compete because I can't stand the bitching, the fashion gadget obession and the acceptance of sawing at the mouth as being OK.

The local show ridden class I watched I had to look away it was so bad, unfortunately I couldn't walk away because I was manning a stand.
 
I went for a hack with a young lass once who was over horsed and clearly scared.

She held tight on the mare's mouth and even wrapped the reins round her hands THREE times for more grip.

I made a mental note never to ride with her again and to grill someone on their ability to ride before agreeing to them coming with me again :(
 
Goldenstar said:
Personally I feel it's best to concerntrate on my own shortcoming while riding and let others get on with it .
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I agree totally.

I also agree with redriverrock - although I'm not sure the riding ability of happy hackers generally was called in to question.

Perhaps I missed that point?
 
My definition of a happy hacker is that we like to hack as opposed to anything else. Riding technique has never entered my head in so far as, in all spheres of horsemanship, there are good and bad techniques. Happy hackers, I guess, are not at the fore or critisism due to them not being in a such a public domain as those who attend shows, hunt or suchlike.

If something is really shocking to you, anyone for that matter, surely it is better to say something for the sake of the horse.

Socking of mouths is, in my opinion, a learnt behaviour from most through witnessing others who may be admired or have much more experience. Sadly, many people follow leaders. Perhaps you could broach the subject sympathetically to the riders concerned and show them the right way forward, they may truly believe they are doing things right.
 
I leave adults to their own devices. If they want help, they get lessons is the way I see it.

Kids on the other hand, will always offer a kind word. You often don't know what ones have had 10 lessons as a RS and then been bought a pony to be put on full livery and just ridden, with not so horsey parents. Kids often listen and soak up info like sponges. I've only once been snapped at by a parent who thought her darling was the best thing and didn't need a little hand.

Even if its a quick ' see when you go over the jump, pop your hands forward a little bit more and the pony will be able to go over the jump easier' and then you see them trying so hard. Its cute!
 
I was looking at photos of me jumping on a hound exercise and my word, you would have thought I didn't want my horse to have any back teeth, but......this was just a photo of a particular set of circumstances, whereby my horse was tanking into every fence, was a stride away from the master, and the ground was flat so there was nothing to really slow him up.

No, I didn't spend the whole day yanking on his mouth but yes, there were times when I should have softened but I didn't. Did we both still have a fab time, yes we did.

We can't all be riders who are 100% perfect, but as long as we are aware of that and always aim to improve I don't think we should beat ourselves up too much!

If I was brave enough I would put a photo up but don't think I dare!
 
littlelegs said:
When someone with awful hands has never had a lesson its usually pretty easy to kindly get the message across. So much harder when they reply 'but my instructor says...'
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Indeed! Which is often the case. Or when the bit is obviously rubbing and you suggest a larger size, "Well my dentist says it fits" is the reply. I just thought I wouldn't employ that dentist.
Never mind, that particular rider now has a degree in Equine Studies (or some such) :rolleyes: so now she knows everything there is to know about horses.
Funny how she still hauls her poor cob, with the long toes and dropped fetlocks (I wouldn't let her farrier near my horses either) around a show-jumping course in the 'pull and kick' style.
 
redredruby said:
I was looking at photos of me jumping on a hound exercise and my word, you would have thought I didn't want my horse to have any back teeth, but......this was just a photo of a particular set of circumstances, whereby my horse was tanking into every fence, was a stride away from the master, and the ground was flat so there was nothing to really slow him up.

No, I didn't spend the whole day yanking on his mouth but yes, there were times when I should have softened but I didn't. Did we both still have a fab time, yes we did.

We can't all be riders who are 100% perfect, but as long as we are aware of that and always aim to improve I don't think we should beat ourselves up too much!

If I was brave enough I would put a photo up but don't think I dare!
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We all have photos like that my Favorite photo of my horse of a lifetime shows her getting us out of trouble in the water at Bramham it's an marvellous picture of her her forelegs or lifted so high her head is lower than them as she rounded to clear the fence you can the strain on her hind fetlocks are she tucks them up out of the way and her tummy muscles are contracted as she lifts it out of the way she looks amazing I on the other hand look Er less good it's still my Favorite picture though.
 
Goldenstar said:
We all have photos like that my Favorite photo of my horse of a lifetime shows her getting us out of trouble in the water at Bramham it's an marvellous picture of her her forelegs or lifted so high her head is lower than them as she rounded to clear the fence you can the strain on her hind fetlocks are she tucks them up out of the way and her tummy muscles are contracted as she lifts it out of the way she looks amazing I on the other hand look Er less good it's still my Favorite picture though.
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Now that is a photo I would like to see!!
 
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