Setting up livery yard/rental as extra source of income

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sidonnel

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So....have my two boys at home, two nice big stables, washbay, tack room and a 30 x 50 m arena which is used mainly for dressage.

Two problems....1) riding alone all the time & my trainer lives 2 hours away so only get to see her every 3-4 weeks and 2) the usual enormous cost of keeping 2 horses and training and competing & I would really love to finance getting back to Germany for some training this year.

Have the option to convert four stables on the other side of the American barn to try to make some money from either renting them for DIY or doing a full livery service. Have great support from non-horsey family but do have a 9-5 full time job mon-fri...

Just wondering if anyone has done something similar and survived the experience/ felt it was worthwhile/ worth the financial gain if any?

Also...economy of scale? Is there an average cost per livery horse based on the number of horses kept etc?

Any/all advice gratefully received...

Long term plan is to move up the levels and eventually sideline by training and coaching others & eventually build a small indoor for schooling purposes only.

Realistic/viable?
 
I would think if you could rent 4 boxes to one like minded person it could work well, 4 DIYs may prove more hassle than it is worth financially, by the time you have done the work, then having to keep them all happy sharing your facilities, more than likely they will want to all be in your arena when you need it, as well as the politics involved.
Full livery is not easy if you work full time, most will expect someone on site to deal with routine vets, farriers etc, you would probably struggle to fit in the time for extra horses in the winter or you may need to employ someone which will take any profit but a part livery where you do mornings may work.
 
Thanks guys,....yes that's as I expected really....bit spoiled having arena to myself but might get annoying if arena too crowded too I guess!!
 
I looked into doing similar on a small scale and found the costs - insurance & business rates etc made my profits very minimal and not worth my time. One particular cost for me was having more horses would mean less haylage made off fields which saves us a huge amount of money over buying in. However that was for livery, so you may find it more profitable renting out, remember to cost in additional maintenance though and make it clear whose responsibility things are eg who mends the fences in their fields etc. :)
 
If you manage to make small scale livery pay you'll be very, very lucky! And having people around will ultimately drive you round the bend, or at least it did me.
 
I would look for a 1 likeminded person with 3 or 4 horses of their own, that would work better than having 4 people, 4 cars/lorries/trailers etc to accommodate. And 1 person will have less stuff than 4 separate people - less feed bins, storage trunks etc. and if there's a mess only one person at fault!
 
whereabouts are you? I'm going to PM you...because it's exactly the sort of thing my BF is looking for - beginning from January.
 
becca1305 said:
I looked into doing similar on a small scale and found the costs - insurance & business rates etc made my profits very minimal and not worth my time. One particular cost for me was having more horses would mean less haylage made off fields which saves us a huge amount of money over buying in. However that was for livery, so you may find it more profitable renting out, remember to cost in additional maintenance though and make it clear whose responsibility things are eg who mends the fences in their fields etc. :)
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This is the first time I have seen this mentioned! I have 10 acres for 2 horses and 1 very small donkey, I also keep a dozen sheep. You might think that is plenty of grass? Well after the summer of 2012 followed by the very late winter/spring I have struggled like anything to keep them fed, like you say it's not just the income from having them it's the impact on your land and regime that needs consideration.
People think I am being awful when I say no to having liveries but I am protecting my investment!
 
I'm going with the crowd here and urging some serious caution and number crunching. Quite apart from big things like land and maintenance, you'd be surprised how the little things - leaving lights on, arena harrowing etc - add up.

I'll be a bit more cheery than some though - it can work with the right people in the right situation. I've shared facilities over the years successfully but it's worked best when we've had shared attitudes and approaches and where communication is clear and consistent.
 
All very good points...the beauty of horse and hound forums, always good to bounce things off like minded individuals!!

I do feel a bit spoiled at the moment having the arena all to myself and I am a dressage rider mainly so having a whole school of jumps up 24/7 might drive me a bit nuts....a few jumps I could cope with! But the downside is I am so used to riding alone that I had to take my youngster to a local riding school to socialise him as he wasn't used to other horses in the arena with him.....and of course its pretty hard to motivate yourself to ride two horses in the cold dark winter evenings in a yard with no one else around!!

I am based in Ireland...in the west....so finding like minded riders who want to rent 4 stables might be a challenge...but who knows, might suit someone looking to bring on a few youngsters or something. Lots of great xc v closeby & quite a few bigger riding schools/training yards with indoors etc but they all do evening lessons and shows on the weekend so its not that convenient for their liveries..was in the same position myself a few years back until I built my own arena!

Thanks for the advice guys!!
 
This how I started taking liveries and now 'my yard' is just a livery yard where I keep my horses. It is nice having the company but there are many more downsides than I expected - my liveries are a nice bunch and we have all become friends and their horses are done by me during the week and DIY at weekends with the intention being that I 'work' at the yard mon-fri keeping reasonable hours then get the weekend off to do my own horses/have a life. But it doesn't work entirely as I'd hoped because of the following:

Going away for the day/weekend and me doing horse(s) as favour - but often it's more than one on same day/wkend which just means I don't really have a wkend.

Not coming up at reasonable times over the weekend and horse kicking off to go out/come in or needing rugging/haying etc so I end up doing it anyway.

Not putting jumps away or clearing poos from manège because its late and they run out of time - often meaning I stay and do it so I'm there even later.

Spreading their stuff out everywhere when tacking up etc - have had to move people's rugs off floor etc to actually get my horse in his stable and I hate mess so I do of course tidy it up, put rugs on their racks, hang head collars on their hooks etc.

Carrying hay across yard or walking horse out of stable without picking feet out when yard is all swept and tidy - I go and re sweep because I thats how I like it.

Leaving tack room or gate unlocked when last to leave - so I generally stay the latest to make sure all done.

Not generally available for vet/farrier visits so I do all of these and transport horses to vets and do all the necessary running up and down etc.

I could go on!

Now these things are all small in isolation but when you add them up it means that I now have no life other than the yard/horses and less of that time is spent on my own horses than ever before!

If you like your yard kept to a particular standard it is def worse - try to find people of a like mind or it will drive you to distraction.

And, decide your rules from the start and stick to them - its easy to be too accommodating when you only have a few but it gets harder when numbers increase!

On the plus side we do horesy stuff together and it's very nice having people to discuss/ bounce ideas off etc.

Good Luck :)
 
Spreading their stuff out everywhere when tacking up etc - have had to move people's rugs off floor etc to actually get my horse in his stable and I hate mess so I do of course tidy it up, put rugs on their racks, hang head collars on their hooks etc.
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To be entirely fair, I bet said livery was definitely planning on going back and tidying up after herself, and just didn't know that picking feet out before leaving the stable was even a thing. I'm guessing.
 
Which brings us to the aforementioned subject of communication! I would hazard a guess the owner thinks feet picking is obvious, or at least her cleaning up would make it obvious. The livery thinks because no one has specifically mentioned it, it's not an issue.
 
TS you are absolutely right - things that I thought were obvious turned out not to be so - I have however communicated my thoughts to all liveries quite clearly and frequently (some have a short/selective memory) in addition to tidying up after them. Luckily I like the sound of my own voice and can happily repeat myself indefinitely, except on a grumpy day (most days since I've had liveries) when I have been tempted to use a loud speaker and air horn to really grab their attention :)

Holding - would you believe that the livery in question has even been provided with a set of hooks outside her stable (at her request) so that she didn't have to leave her things on the floor, apparently she prefers floor. She is however mildly humorous and her horse is tiny so he costs me very little in feed and bedding so its not all bad ;)
 
Holding - would you believe that the livery in question has even been provided with a set of hooks outside her stable (at her request) so that she didn't have to leave her things on the floor, apparently she prefers floor. She is however mildly humorous and her horse is tiny so he costs me very little in feed and bedding so its not all bad
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That is truly shocking - you should immediately evict her from your yard. Unless she compensates for her messiness with fags, chocolate, witticisms and fluffy overreach boots, in which case you should probably just continue to gently nag until she gets the message.

Which brings us to the aforementioned subject of communication! I would hazard a guess the owner thinks feet picking is obvious, or at least her cleaning up would make it obvious. The livery thinks because no one has specifically mentioned it, it's not an issue.
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In all seriousness, I do think communication is the most important thing when working with people, including on a yard. I would always rather be told if I am being irritating, so I can try to change what I'm doing. I now always pick out my horse's feet when he leaves the stable, even if I secretly think it would be easier for me just to sweep afterwards. And I'm working on my tidiness, or lack thereof, but it doesn't come naturally!
 
I just wish uk & Ireland were more European minded & would have a few co-ops with nice indoors & hire staff to do the work....then I wouldn't have had to build the arena in the first place!!

Mmm I am certainly quite turned off the idea now tho!!
 
sidonnel said:
I just wish uk & Ireland were more European minded & would have a few co-ops with nice indoors & hire staff to do the work....then I wouldn't have had to build the arena in the first place!!

Mmm I am certainly quite turned off the idea now tho!!
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Good; probably the wisest decision!
 
I often toy with the idea of a couple of liveries mainly for the company and cos I like to chat. I seriously doubt I could have someone I don't know around and my friends I would like as liveries are either working so wouldn't be able to look after their own horse or don't own a horse to keep with me anyway.

I'll just stick with my plan of having a cosy tackroom so people drop in for tea and a big enough turning space for lorries so friends can bring their horses over to hack with. Best of both worlds.

The other idea suggested to me was to book a trainer for a few hours and effectively hire out your arena to pay for your lesson. You get the social side of having people around but only say one day a week and the income can increase the frequency of your training and make it worthwhile for your trainer to travel to you.
 
Cortez said:
If you manage to make small scale livery pay you'll be very, very lucky! And having people around will ultimately drive you round the bend, or at least it did me.
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Sadly this was my experience too! And also agree with the hay effect too - I didn't realise that it would affect that too, initially due to a wet summer we had to cut the hay late, so ended up sacrificing a hayfield for grazing, then secondly the liveries used a lot more hay than I expected (guess I am used to my good doers!) so we ended up buying in that year.

The idea of clinics sounds good. The only way I would have someone on the yard nowadays would be someone I knew was on the same wavelength (in morals and manners more than anything!) to help us with our horses in return for a stable, or on full livery if I ever had to leave work, or thirdly by building a second small yard and letting it out with a field as a complete separate unit.
 
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From the other perspective I won't livery on a large yard. I need full livery and gladly drive 20 miles or so to have my horse looked after on a small private yard. The person who cares for my horse is very experienced, superb rider and treats him like her own. I pay a competitive rate which fully reflects the superb care and qualified professionalism of the person. I always try to be sensitive to it being a home and private yard by not being intrusive. I help out when I can doing little chores and we are like minded in our approaches. Its lovely having a massive arena virtually to myself, sharing our experiences and handy observations and the peace of mind that my horse is cared for brilliantly. Without this sort of set up I would be stumped completely. So OP despite many stories to the contrary it can work well and enhances things for both of us.
 
It can work, absolutely! I've been in a few situations where I kept a few horses on a private yard, usually with someone I rode a horse for, too, and it's always worked well. It's about picking the right situation.
 
Yes....well that's true, I had my fella on livery a few years back at a small private yard with a trainer & it was second to none,horse was really taken care of so well,as was I & I think I was a pretty straightforward client too (I hope) & used to get lessons from said trainer.

Oh time will tell...just trialing rubber mats in one stable at the mo & if it works well think will start converting other side of barn anyway & see if something is feasible!
 
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