settle my mind about soaking hay please?

binkymerlin

binkymerlin

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can you feed horses hay that has been soaked over 12hours? I know you can but what is bothering me is the smell it produces when i drain it out. Is it ok to feed if rinsed thru? Is it fermenting more in this heat wave we are having in the uk atm? Can i please pick your brains for your experiences with soaking hay. To me my initial instinct is not to because it hums. Our hay is good quality hay btw im not soaking rotten hay lol. Im soaking it in a wheely bin, 3 nets, 2 medium, 1 small. Fresh water every time.

Thanx in advance :-)
 
Personally, I would not feed it if it is smelling like that, fermentation is occuring, and hay contains a huge range of bacteria.
 
lhotse said:
Personally, I would not feed it if it is smelling like that, fermentation is occuring, and hay contains a huge range of bacteria.
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I've never known hay to ferment and smell like that - have been soaking hay for years. I soaked haylage this winter and that could get a bit manky sometimes (so chucked it away and started again) but never hay.

Just a thought.. OP said they were soaking it in a wheelie bin, yes? If you have the lid closed then that might be the issue. Take the lid off and leave it open.
 
yes water changed every time a new batch is soaked. Was wondering if the warm weather and the sun is making it smell? The lid is left open on the wb. Its a kind of vinegary (sp totally forgot) smell? As long as its not going to cause problems 'cool'. Its just that our bloody horses are illness prone *rolls eyes* and i just want reasurance i spose.
 
I'm sure I read about a study or something that said even laminitics didn't need hat soaked for more than 12 hours..? I've never had it smell, but then I've always soaked for 12 hours max in a wide-topped trug or in a bath.
 
binkymerlin said:
yes water changed every time a new batch is soaked. Was wondering if the warm weather and the sun is making it smell? The lid is left open on the wb. Its a kind of vinegary (sp totally forgot) smell? As long as its not going to cause problems 'cool'. Its just that our bloody horses are illness prone *rolls eyes* and i just want reasurance i spose.
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I think I would be wary if it has a vinegary smell as that is what haylage smells like when it is turning - not that I know much about it as I have never soaked hay - but I wouldn't use haylage that smelled of vinegar!
 
It could prpbably be aswell that u are soaking three nets together so treble the stuff goin into the water.
Try soaking 1 net and see what it smells of. I have soaked 1 net at a time in a big yellow trug for over 12hrs and the water was very dark and smells but mine has been fine on it.

Edited to say that if soak for around 12hrs i rinse it through as it would be soaking in its own sugars that go back on the hay.
 
I've never had hay smell or ferment when soaked. Can you move the wheelie bin to somewhere cooler? Definitely rinse it well and I'd be a bit worried if it smells tbh. Does it smell if you soak it without nets? I soak and drain mine first, I don't soak in nets so could it be the nets themselves harbouring something? :confused:
 
You're not pregnant are you? May seem daft but my sense of smell went into over drive & I couldn't even stand the smell of fresh coffee. (sorry if you are 14 & your Dad is reading this!)
 
nooooo not pregnant and 25 with bad grammar :-0 lol! thanx for all your replys much appriciated. Plan of action... Make sure it is rinced thoroughly, ask vet on next visit, try to shade the area, see if the smell goes now the weather is cooler (we had rain yay!), try soaking loose, do reasearch. Ohhh the joy of being a paranoid horse owner :-/ meh..
 
You do not need to soak hay for 24hrs!!! Or 12hrs!!! or even an hour!!!

Ewww, what is the point of leaving it to stew in it's own sugars, salts, potassiums, urea (yes UREA!).

It takes approx 20mins to leach out toxins and sugars from grass.

Think about it...

When dry matter is exposed to water, by the process of osmosis, salts, sugars and all that is bound to it goes up the gradient and is removed. However, once the dry matter reached a the same gradient as the water, stuff can flow back in. So you have soaked all the stuff back in that you wanted to soak out.

I mean, feeding 24hr soaked hay will still be okay as the sugars have fermented (think about beer and cider) but why would you want to give a horse that kind of feed when you don't have to.

Check the colour of the water after 30mins and you will see it is nearly the same colour as a 24hr soaking except it doesn't smell. If you still doubt me and think I'm a loser, use a urine-test strip available from your friendly Community Nurse at the surgery and check the sugar levels at 30minute intervals.

Anyway -that was my thoughts on soaking.
 
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Tallyho - I always soak mine for 24hrs as I only go to the yard once a day. I have never known the hay to ferment or smell vinegary in all the years I've been soaking it this way.

OP - I would try soaking your nets individually in Tub Trugs or something like that rather than all in one big wheelie bin. I soak one in the biggest TT (takes 2 slices of hay) and it's always fine.
 
I have a lami prone mare and I soak my hay in a large tub. I soak 2 nets all day they are rinsed and then I change water and soak 2 all night. When I empty the day ones they have been a bit smelly and I put it down to the heat. I just rinse them thoroughly.
 
tallyho! said:
You do not need to soak hay for 24hrs!!! Or 12hrs!!! or even an hour!!!

Ewww, what is the point of leaving it to stew in it's own sugars, salts, potassiums, urea (yes UREA!).

It takes approx 20mins to leach out toxins and sugars from grass.

Think about it...

When dry matter is exposed to water, by the process of osmosis, salts, sugars and all that is bound to it goes up the gradient and is removed. However, once the dry matter reached a the same gradient as the water, stuff can flow back in. So you have soaked all the stuff back in that you wanted to soak out.

I mean, feeding 24hr soaked hay will still be okay as the sugars have fermented (think about beer and cider) but why would you want to give a horse that kind of feed when you don't have to.

Check the colour of the water after 30mins and you will see it is nearly the same colour as a 24hr soaking except it doesn't smell. If you still doubt me and think I'm a loser, use a urine-test strip available from your friendly Community Nurse at the surgery and check the sugar levels at 30minute intervals.

Anyway -that was my thoughts on soaking.
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very interesting indeed and also makes a lot of sense and no way would i think you a loser:eek: i think its great to gather as much knowledge as possible spesh with lami prone horses. i wonder if soaking hay for a long time is an old wives tale? im not trying to put the cat amongst the pigeons here, just wondering if it is realy necessary? food for thought thank you:D
 
binkymerlin said:
very interesting indeed and also makes a lot of sense and no way would i think you a loser:eek: i think its great to gather as much knowledge as possible spesh with lami prone horses. i wonder if soaking hay for a long time is an old wives tale? im not trying to put the cat amongst the pigeons here, just wondering if it is realy necessary? food for thought thank you:D
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This might help. http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/SoakReport.pdf

The difficulty is that from my reading of many posts and experiences some do find soaking for longer is necessary for some horses, no idea why though I'm afraid. I have found it necessary to soak some hays in two changes of water for my pony for her to get relief occasionally. This seems to depend on the hay batch and I'm assuming the carb content.

I don't think carbs are always the whole story for some horses...
 
What I don't understand is why buy expensive hay and soak it to remove the sugars/nutrients....

Why not feed decent quality straw instead and save all the effort?
 
Chico Mio said:
What I don't understand is why buy expensive hay and soak it to remove the sugars/nutrients....

Why not feed decent quality straw instead and save all the effort?
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For many horses and ponies with laminitis the NSC (non structural carbohydrates) levels in hay can be way too much as horses were designed to eat a low sugar, high roughage, fairly poor quality forage. Much grass and hay made from pasture grasses are too 'rich', high in sugars and other nutrients or have mineral imbalance or deficiencies.
Straw can be very high in sugars and as a forage alone doesn't have enough essential nutrients such as protein etc. I believe. This is another reason for bedding a horse with laminitis on shavings or other non edible bedding.
 
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Just don't soak it at all - unless for a horse with breathing problems.

This hype about sugars etc is such a load of twaddle. If your horse is prone to laminitis then reduce the grass it has access to, INCREASE it's exercise and DON'T give any hardfeed.

How did horses and ponies manage to get to exist into the 21st century when we fed them hay, left them out in paddocks 24/7 and if we fed they had oats or barley, chaff & sugarbeet?

We didn't hard feed the commercially mixed feeds, especially those with soy products known to cause metabolic problems in humans, we didn't overload our horses with every supplement under the sun, they had a mineral block and salt, or strip graze them so that they are unable to have a hoon around the paddock.

So much common horsesense is missing in the modern owner - listen to the oldies

Rant over :D

And definately don't feed hay that smells vinergary - it's fermenting
 
I had a conversation with the laminitis trust yesterday and they told me that there was no need to soak hay for laminitics. Apparently the fructan (sp) levels are nearly the same and it makes no difference one way or the other to lami ponies or horses.
 
Evelyn,

Interested in what you say. I have a cob who would get fat in the proverbial car park. During late spring to early autumn (i.e. when it's light enough after work) he is ridden for at least an hour 3 times a week & about 3 hours a day at the weekends. After the recent dry spell the summer field has no grass & I been topping up with soaked hay for the last couple of days - 1 net per horse per day. I put the hay in small piles to encourage them to move around. He has no hard feed just a small handful of chaff (unmollassed) to put a broad spectrum vitamin supplement in to make up the vits/minerals lost in the soaked hay. If I gave him any less I would be concerned about colic from lack of fibre, I work 5 days per week with 2 hour round trip commute so can't up the amount of work. What would be your suggestion?
 
I still don't get it.

The purpose of soaking hay was to remove sugars and potassium (quite harmful to lami prones as lami also affects the liver & kidneys NOT just the feet).

The vits & mins DO take longer to leach out as they are contained in the cellulose fibres.

So, soak for 20mins, remove, drain, feed. All vits still present. Why buy £30 pots of fake vits and mins to make up for over soaking.

Everyone has time to soak hay for 20mins before work - just do it first on the list of chores.

Good to see those articles finally getting recognition.
 
Evelyn said:
Just don't soak it at all - unless for a horse with breathing problems.

This hype about sugars etc is such a load of twaddle. If your horse is prone to laminitis then reduce the grass it has access to, INCREASE it's exercise and DON'T give any hardfeed.
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I hope someone with a horse with laminitis doesn't take this advice. Reducing or stopping grass altogether is not enough for many horses when they have laminitis.

Exercise is crucial for keeping laminitis at bay, but care must be taken when in an acute attack..
 
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OK, I'm going to upset the proverbial applecart here. The majority of cases of laminitis are caused by overfeeding, so that is down to the owner. The rate of Cushings syndrome is through the roof, as are metabolic disorders. I know of several vets who believe there is a link between obesity and the onset of these conditions. Twenty years ago, Cushings was few and far between, and always in older ponies. Now every yard has several with it, and they are young. I agree with Evelyn, modern methods of keeping horses are not always to their benefit, laminitis is almost always preventable by management, and I believe that if there were not so many fat ponies around, the rate of Cushings would come down too.
 
lhotse, I certainly agree about obesity and hard feed etc. as being a 'modern' problem but I am thinking of those with horses in an acute attack of laminitis that may be reading this. :)
 
I don't know if my pony is typical for a lami case but if I don't soak his hay for at least 12 hours he unfortunately gets an attack every time. He was not overweight or under exercised when he first got laminitis so I disagree that it is always caused by poor management. He's also never been over-rugged or over-fed hard feed.

I've had him tested twice for Cushings over the last 3 years and the last time I also had him tested for metabolic syndrome, he hasn't got either. We know now that it can be caused by other factors but we still don't know enough about the disease for anyone to be making sweeping statements about others' care of their horses, hence the ongoing research.

My point is that soaking hay does make a big difference to my pony so please don't be put off trying it as a way of controlling laminitis as it can be a successful way to manage sugar intake, at least in some cases.
 
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