severe weight loss.

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Jim bob

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Hello everyone I am after some advice.

My boy has been on steriods for a skin condition on and off since June time. I had to limit his grass intake due to the sugar content and also I found he was looking a little too good on it. He is a typical tb and poor doer. He is 9.

I weighed him on the 7th of this month and he was 562 kg and he is 17hh. He is normally around 575 kg. Then I weighed him again last Friday before the vet was due to come and he was 540 kg!! My vet spoke about our grazing. It's a little poor sadly. What I was feeding was on 2 scoops of alfa a molasses free. I was advised to up his feed . Which I have done to 4 scoops of the chaff along with starting him on mirconised linseed and conditioning cubes. And also to worm him which I have done. My vet checked his teeth ,listen to his heart and checked his temp all were fine. Though my horse was lethargic when been trotted up for the vet that day in my vets words ' it's like all the life has gone from him'

I weighed him again yesterday and he has dropped to 532kg. Spoke to the vet and he advised me to give it more time. Which I am doing. He is on ad lib hay when he is in and will be going in a sectioned part of the field each day to have some hay.

He is eating and drinking fine if peeing a little too much. The vet is coming back on the 7th of sept. But said if there was no improvement then my horse would need a blood test.

One of the things I have noticed is thay he has become very grumpy recently. Like more then more so and he is cribbing and windsucking more it appears.

Quite worried.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if your horse has developed stomach ulcers from having his feed restricted and actually am surprised that the vet didn't suggest scoping him to check this possibility. Until your vet comes back, you could feed Aloe Vera juice to line his stomach and reduce the acid.
 
Steroids don't cause weight loss - quite the opposite in fact. They may have been hiding something underlying by supporting his weight for a while. I'd be thinking some form of low grade poisoning or liver problems? The fact he is peeing more might indicate a kidney problem or a hormone issue like PPID. The only way to tell is a blood test - I'd get him tested sooner rather than later. Otherwise you are pouring feed into something that may not be able to correctly metabolise it. (And consider getting him scoped...)

But the good news is that although the weight loss is sudden the problem causing it may well have been there for some time which means you have time to fix it.
 
Blood test is the next step.
It must be really worrying
If he's out at night I would rug him if you are not already some TB's drop weight really fast if they are getting cold and it is colder at night now there's no point in risking further loss if a rug will help.
I hope you get an answer and it's a manageable issue .
Did the vet look at his teeth ?
 
I'd be including ACTH levels in the blood tests - this is the middle of the seasonal rise for PPID and it can easily be controlled once it is diagnosed. Drinking and peeing a lot can be a symptom of insulin resistance which often accompanies PPID - does his diet include much cereal or sugar?
 
Vet looked at his teeth and he said it wouldn't have caused the weight loss. Diet wise he is on a low sugar and starch diet due to the steriods and the increase risk of lami. Like I say he started the steriods in June roughly didn't have no really problems weight wise until ... A month ago when he did start to slowly drop weight. That was when he wasn't getting alot of feed and was on poor grazing and the grazing has generally stay the same ( still poor to a degree) and same with the feed up until.. Last Friday. So not sure if it's just he hasn't been eating enough feed. He is rugged yeah.

He was fine last summer and through winter weight wise he was stable generally just kept him warm and well fed. He was doing well until early June when the skin condition appeared and I had to reduce his feed intake due to the risk of lami
 
JillA said:
I'd be including ACTH levels in the blood tests - this is the middle of the seasonal rise for PPID and it can easily be controlled once it is diagnosed. Drinking and peeing a lot can be a symptom of insulin resistance which often accompanies PPID - does his diet include much cereal or sugar?
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Im so sorry to hear this.. I would agree with Shay... Steroids should generally help with weight gain, not cause deterioration. Goldenstar is right, full bloods next step and yes, I would agree with JillA ACTH levels, however with a note of caution on the results... pain can cause a significant raise in ACTH levels. Have there been any changes in the horses stools? Harder/ wetter than normal? Also, I would echo Pearslingers post about potential ulcers... it was one of our thoughts with my girl... sadly in her case it wasn't ulcers but it very well could be in your horses case... In which case (Im pretty sure that this is right but am prepared to be corrected) steroids would stand to do more harm than good.

I would worm with caution, Im not saying I would not worm but use something mild... if it is a gut issue then the process of worming can do a lot more harm than good... go for the five day wormer.

I would recommend a good blood tonic... it peps the horse up, gives the immune system a boost... I can't rate Haemavite b + highly enough, it will also help with gut function and the horses ability to process food... Its used on racehorses and coalescing horses - I would feed at the max rate per day... you will definitely see a change in the horses, I found that it gave my girl back that 'spark' in her eye, and although her issue was terminal (she had cancer which caused malabsorption syndrome) I swear it bought her extra time for us to investigate her issues, try and find a fix for her. I have recommended it a number of times to people on here... they have all found it to be worth every penny.

personally, I would be looking to add something to the mix feed wise... you need to be adding calories, and feeding as many small feeds as possible and possibly above the recommended daily amount, and as I suggested I would be adding Haemavite - theres a link below if you want to have a look:

http://www.******.co.uk/Equine_Prod...q1k55KNSUXqzmd7QpvFyYIwvnnWUWPpXndRoCjiPw_wcB

How is your horses appetite at the moment... have you noticed any changes in this?

I really hope you get to the bottom of the issue and can find out whats going on and fix it xx
 
Queen bee
On the leaflet with the steriod it did say that ulcers can be made worse. But at the time I didn't know and still don't know if he has them and the main concern was his legs. Yes the next step is blood test if no improvement. His stools have remained the same.

My horse has already been wormed and I did this on the friday a few hours after my vet visited.

Feed wise I am adding in mirconised linseed and build up cubes from d and h . I have already said this. He did well on them last winter.

His appetite has appeared the same. I was slightly worried on the friday as he didn't want to eat hay or hard feed after I wormed him but since then it has returned and he is eating normally.

He is rugged in the field on a night depending on the weather and has been getting hay in the field as of yesterday.

The only other thing I have noticed is thay since the steriods he has been more grumpy then normal . He is normally quite chilled in the summer. But the last few weeks he has become very very grumpy. Threatening to bite when tied up and i am doing his rugs generally he just pulls faces at me.
 
Jim bob said:
Queen bee
On the leaflet with the steriod it did say that ulcers can be made worse. But at the time I didn't know and still don't know if he has them and the main concern was his legs. Yes the next step is blood test if no improvement. His stools have remained the same.

My horse has already been wormed and I did this on the friday a few hours after my vet visited.

Feed wise I am adding in mirconised linseed and build up cubes from d and h . I have already said this. He did well on them last winter.

His appetite has appeared the same. I was slightly worried on the friday as he didn't want to eat hay or hard feed after I wormed him but since then it has returned and he is eating normally.

He is rugged in the field on a night depending on the weather and has been getting hay in the field as of yesterday.

The only other thing I have noticed is thay since the steriods he has been more grumpy then normal . He is normally quite chilled in the summer. But the last few weeks he has become very very grumpy. Threatening to bite when tied up and i am doing his rugs generally he just pulls faces at me.
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hi, jim bob... it does seem like you are doing all the right things... re: the steroids, I feel your pain! sometimes we have to take the lesser of two evils, weigh up the benefits, Im in no way saying you should not have put him on steroids, I completely understand why you did. I did see you were feeding Linseed although I missed that you were feeding build up, unfortunately the bottom line is that whilst he did well on this last year, something is going on and you may need to increase the amount you are feeding to compensate. I would definitely start by splitting the feeds into three or four, soak them if you do not already... this will make each meal easier to digest, meaning that he can get the best out of each meal. I would definitely have a chat with your vet re:possible ulcers based on what you are saying and I would also not hesitate to put him on a good blood tonic. :) I really hope that you can get to the bottom of this fast x
 
Thanks! I have previously spoken to my vets regarding ulcers and they have said the only way to find out is to scope. Yeah I am quite happy to increase it if it means he puts on weight.
 
Jim bob said:
Thanks! I have previously spoken to my vets regarding ulcers and they have said the only way to find out is to scope. Yeah I am quite happy to increase it if it means he puts on weight.
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will keep everything crossed for you and your boy! :D If it is ulcers, I know of many people who have found aloe vera juice very helpful in the management of ulcers - although there are many on here who would be able to give you much more help on that than I would :)
 
I guess it really depends what his calorie intake has been since you have been restricting sugar/starch and whether he has still been dropping since you have upped his feed?

Have you looked at copra coolstance, it is high energy but all oil based. That + the linseed, or maybe equijewel?
 
Okay... how long would you think it would be before you saw an improvement? Bearing in mind that the linseed is only been fed at... less them a mug full purely because I want his system to get used to it and as soon as he (hopefully ) has weight on I can move him onto the linseed full time.

He will be on... 2 stubb scoops of the cubes 3 times a day... If needs be 2 and a half to 3 scoops 3 times a day. He was on that in winter ( 3 feeds and 3 scoops of cubes along with alfa a oil) and he did really well. But it was pretty expensive.
 
You are doing the right thing introducing the new feeds gradually, particularly if other gastrointestinal issues are a possibility.

If he were mine then as soon as I had managed to increase his feed to the full amounts I would weight tape him that day and weight tape him 7 days later. If the results did not show at least him holding his weight (preferably a slight gain) then I would be very worried.

In the meantime whilst working up to full feed and during that first full feed week Id still be weight taping and watching like a hawk for any sudden deterioration. In theory once you have increased his intake significantly (even though not up to full level) you should still be seeing at least a slowing in the speed of weight loss, if that's not happening then again I would be back on the phone to the vet.

Hope he picks up soon.
 
Thank you. The only concern I have about this build up cubes is the affect that the steriods and extra sugar will have on his pulses. I was already watching me like a hawk for his pulses as good grass has sent them sky rocketing
.Eventhough we don't really have decent grass. He is still.out 247 with Hay provided for part.of the day. Along with the feed. So it is hard. But I guess.i need to increase the sugar content for him to put on weight quickly.

Weighed him today. He has.put.on 5kgs in 3 days
 
I'd be inclined to scope if that grumpy behaviour continues even if he gets weight on. T had good weight, good shine and still had grade four ulcers.

Put him on some copra, I wouldn't feed the cubes if ulcers are a possibility as they will be high in starch and not helpful. Copra and micronised linseed are safe bets.

If you dont want to scope you could always get a few Gastroguard syringes from your vet and see if the behaviour changes. Some horses change really quickly even after a couple of days of the stuff. It's about 30 quid a day though.

Another thing- with his lameness etc could it be muscle he's loosing more than weight if he's not in work?
 
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