SHGB or AES

[Rollin]

Neither of my two Rare Breed societies have part-bred stud books. So where do I put my ShGxCB or CBxShG?

I already have one registered with AES but it took two years and lots of emails to get the filly into the mother stud book, although we paid for the registration.

I am thinking about the next foal.

What are breeder's opinions of the relative merits of each?

 

[Alec Swan]

AES.

Alec.

 

[popsdosh]

Breeders Elite!!

 

[sallyf]

I've registered mine AES this time.
despite the stallion being multiply graded abroad shb would only hive me identity papers which is ridiculous .
It was a toss up between AES and breeders elite but went with AES because of there wbsfh affiliation

 

[Rollin]

What is Breeders Elite? Does it have a wbsfh affiliation?

 

[HBM1]

Breeders Elite is Henk Minderman's new studbook Rollin (he formerly started and ran the AES).

They are incredibly approachable if you have any questions -
Phone:-
Office

01444 483789
07774 244974
07810 013458
Address:-
PO Box 805,
Haywards Heath,
West Sussex RH16 9LD
louise@renkumstudfarm.co.uk

 

[Mr Wolf]

I hadn't heard of Breeders Elite. Went with Sports Horse as unfortunately my foal was by an unlicensed TB colt. At this point I would like to point out I purchased the mare only 6 1/2 weeks before she foaled!
It is only an ID passport but still cost me about £174 to get his pedigree in there. Weatherbys already had the sires DNA on record so just paid for my foal and his mum Brenta's DNA.

 

[sywell]

I hadn't heard of Breeders Elite. Went with Sports Horse as unfortunately my foal was by an unlicensed TB colt. At this point I would like to point out I purchased the mare only 6 1/2 weeks before she foaled!
It is only an ID passport but still cost me about £174 to get his pedigree in there. Weatherbys already had the sires DNA on record so just paid for my foal and his mum Brenta's DNA.

The AES is recognised by the WBFSH the Breeders Elite is not so any horses are not eligible to compete in Young horse classes run by the WBFSH the SHGB is a safer bet long term.

 

[Alec Swan]

AES.

Alec.

I'm now beginning to wonder about my recommendation. Since the date of my last post on the subject, AES have failed to deliver a passport, and the reason given is that Defra have changed the ruling regarding the actual binding of the passport itself. By all accounts, AES are STILL awaiting the arrival of the new machine with which to accomplish this magical new binding.

Well that's the story that they've given me. The horse is now sold and the buyer's wondering where the hell the passport is for the horse that I've sold them. It isn't really good enough to be told "Don't worry, you're at the top of the list". I wonder how many others have been told the same tale.

Alec.

 

[sallyf]

I'm now beginning to wonder about my recommendation. Since the date of my last post on the subject, AES have failed to deliver a passport, and the reason given is that Defra have changed the ruling regarding the actual binding of the passport itself. By all accounts, AES are STILL awaiting the arrival of the new machine with which to accomplish this magical new binding.

Well that's the story that they've given me. The horse is now sold and the buyer's wondering where the hell the passport is for the horse that I've sold them. It isn't really good enough to be told "Don't worry, you're at the top of the list". I wonder how many others have been told the same tale.

Alec.

Mine was back within a week of posting it in.
sent in first week of jan.
Was happy with the service I got compared to the last lot of foals I registered with SHB a few years ago

 

[Rollin]

I don't know how things are at the moment but as I said. We registered a filly born in France, a year later my husband discovered she was still not in their stud book.

He sent them a copy of the passport with their logo, no reply and no action. It took another year to sort it out.

Having said all that I know of another breed society who are not getting passports out within the required time.

It is very frustrating for breeders, especially if the person who answers the phone (if anyone is there!!) is not up to speed.

We pay a lot of money to belong to a whole list of organisations, I do question the value for money.

 

[Alec Swan]

Mine was back within a week of posting it in.
sent in first week of jan.
Was happy with the service I got compared to the last lot of foals I registered with SHB a few years ago

When I 'phone them tomorrow, and receive yet another and well rehearsed excuse that "The machine still hasn't arrived", then I'll mention your name, perhaps that'll speed things up!

Alec.

 

[Mr Wolf]

I have to say sallyf, i had the passport come back wrong even though I had filled the form in correctly. The Dam was down as an Arab and she is Shagya Arab which is actually very different!
But to their credit they were very fast getting the corrected passport back. Also I said it cost me £174, I was wrong, it would have cost £179 if I had had to pay for the Sire to be DNA tested but as Sport Horse have access to Weatherby's DNA files I was spared that expense.

 

[HBM1]

The AES is recognised by the WBFSH the Breeders Elite is not so any horses are not eligible to compete in Young horse classes run by the WBFSH the SHGB is a safer bet long term.

This comment needs checking as Breeders Elite have stated they are recognised by WBFSH. They are also not a tin pot organisation, but run by Henk Minderman who started the AES in the first place. I would assume he knows what he is doing.

 

[Anastasia]

This comment needs checking as Breeders Elite have stated they are recognised by WBFSH. They are also not a tin pot organisation, but run by Henk Minderman who started the AES in the first place. I would assume he knows what he is doing.

Breeders Elite ARE NOT a member or recognised by the WBFSH

List here gives the current members of the WBFSH:
http://www.wbfsh.org/GB/Members/The Members and Associate Members.aspx

 

[sywell]

I'm now beginning to wonder about my recommendation. Since the date of my last post on the subject, AES have failed to deliver a passport, and the reason given is that Defra have changed the ruling regarding the actual binding of the passport itself. By all accounts, AES are STILL awaiting the arrival of the new machine with which to accomplish this magical new binding.

Well that's the story that they've given me. The horse is now sold and the buyer's wondering where the hell the passport is for the horse that I've sold them. It isn't really good enough to be told "Don't worry, you're at the top of the list". I wonder how many others have been told the same tale.

Alec.

That is correct as these machines can cost 4 or 5 thousand pounds one understands why studbooks are slow to decide what machine to buy and will the cheap machines do the job

 

[Alec Swan]

So if defra have decided that the previous binding system for passports wasn't satisfactory, and if they've placed even further hurdles for the registration of equines, upon the PIAs and the animal's owners, when was this probably pointless bureaucratic legislation added? Does anyone know?

Alec.

 

[sport horse]

AES was taken over in slightly underhand manner by some dutch horse businessmen about last May 2013. They failed to tell anyone that they had been expelled from WBFSH and this caused a huge amount of confusion at the BS Young Horse Championships in August where BS members were trying to qualify for the WBFSH championships at Lanaken without knowing that any horse with an AES passport was, at the time, ineligible. AES subsequently took WBFSH to court and won. Breeders Elite is a Northern Irish stud book now expanded to take in GB and is operated by Henk Minderman who was largely responsible for the setting up and subsequent success of AES. Breeders Elite will, I understand, be applying for WBFSH membership later this year. SHBGB do not take performance into account as part of the approval of mares etc. ie a top class international show jumper will not be automatically graded - she would have to go before a panel of showing experts at considerable cost to the owner!

 

[Aredis]

SHBGB do not take performance into account as part of the approval of mares etc. ie a top class international show jumper will not be automatically graded - she would have to go before a panel of showing experts at considerable cost to the owner!

What you have stated here is untrue.SHBGB do take a mares performance into account as part of the mare grading. The grading event we attended was not expensive and I recall the inspectors having a very meaningful discussion about our mares performance while examining the results sheet we had completed as part of the application.
The day was one of the best we have attended.

I would expect a thorough inspection and vets report as part of any grading process if the result is to have any value.

 

[Rollin]

So if defra have decided that the previous binding system for passports wasn't satisfactory, and if they've placed even further hurdles for the registration of equines, upon the PIAs and the animal's owners, when was this probably pointless bureaucratic legislation added? Does anyone know?

Alec.

Actually other PIO's e.g. French National Stud, have used this binding system for at least five years. My Shagya stallion has a tamper proof passport. So does my Highland Pony, German bred and one of the first EU passports ever issued.

This prevents criminal elements pulling the passport apart and inserting a new ID.

 

[Alec Swan]

It now seems that the change in regulation doesn't actually come in to effect until the 1st. April, which would make one wonder just why there seems to be a stalling.

Alec.

 

[sport horse]

What you have stated here is untrue.SHBGB do take a mares performance into account as part of the mare grading. The grading event we attended was not expensive and I recall the inspectors having a very meaningful discussion about our mares performance while examining the results sheet we had completed as part of the application.
The day was one of the best we have attended.

I would expect a thorough inspection and vets report as part of any grading process if the result is to have any value.

Obviously I was misinformed. What a pity that my information was provided by SHBGB themselves!

 

[Lgd]

Can confirm what Aredia says.
One of my mares is SHB-GB graded and they specifically asked for her competition results when I sent the application in. There is a specific section on her grading sheet and a score is attached to it