Shire or Clydesdale?

[optimistic07]

Hi! I'm new to the H&H forum

i'm in the market for a new horse to own and ride. hack and dressage in arena (not competition) thinking to get a heavy breed horse.

short story about my current situation:
my beloved best friend, my spanish horse, is currently in the equine hospital for a double colic surgery. it's been touch and go. i'm holding my breath. i still have hope but its been such a roller coaster of emotions- one day he's doing well, the next he is fighting for his life again. he is struggling and we still aren't sure he will make it. my heart is breaking for my boy. he means the world to me.
my husband and i decided that if he makes it and survives we will retire him. hes only 10 (got him when he was 4 1/2) and before this had no health issues- just ulcers and a previous few colics that didn't need surgery. he was my wonderful dressage horse with a huge heart and he's eagerly given me so much, and after all he has been through with the surgeries we think retiring him as our family pet with lots of turnout in fields with friends would be a gift to him.

we are moving to portugal after covid19 settles down and once my spanish horse heals and gets strong again, i'll bring him with me.
retiring him would leave me without a horse to ride. so i'm in the market for a new horse i suppose.
in portugal i want to hack a lot.
my spanish horse was a wonderful dressage horse, but we didn't hack much. he was too energetic and could be silly and spooky on hacks which made me super nervous and a bit afraid.
i am moving to portugal to enjoy the outdoors and nature and hacking will be extremely important to me. (currently live in middle east)

...so that brings me to the topic of this post!
i've heard really lovely things about shires and clydesdales and in general heavy horse breeds that they are docile, good hackers, kind, gentle giants, confidence givers and don't spook easily.
im also tall and heavy myself (although a balanced and experienced rider) and i heard they are good weight carriers.

my questions to you:
- do you have a shire? do you have a clydesdale?
- pros? cons?
- do you agree that they have great temperaments and are good for light dressage (lessons and arena schooling) and hacking?
- can you recommend a reputable place to buy them in uk or europe? i've been looking at a few places online but i'm not sure where to start. i'll go visit to try horses in person once covid19 eases down a bit.
- any extra info is welcome!

thanks and sorry for such a long post x looking forward to your thoughts!

 

[Orangehorse]

They are huge draft animals. There is a company in Cumbria I think that does holidays on heavy horses, so maybe they would be the people to contact as they have lots of experience with them.

The only thing that I would like to consider is how a large heavy horse would cope with the high temperatures?

 

[optimistic07]

They are huge draft animals. There is a company in Cumbria I think that does holidays on heavy horses, so maybe they would be the people to contact as they have lots of experience with them.

The only thing that I would like to consider is how a large heavy horse would cope with the high temperatures?

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Thanks for your reply! I'll check out the place in cumbria online.

yes good point about the heat. portugal will be cool to me and my spanish horse as we are coming from the middle east, temps in the 40's!
and portugal hottest temps around 28c. would a draft who is given shade and indoor boxing with a fan during hottest part of day be fine? all year is relatively mild weather, summers are short i hear and rest of the year steady 20 degrees.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

I could be wrong but I’m my head I have that Shires are much sharper to ride than Clydesdales (obviously that is generalising). I had a 3/4 shire and we rehomed him as he was very sharp and spooky.

Yes, I would wonder if they would cope with the heat also.

 

[optimistic07]

I could be wrong but I’m my head I have that Shires are much sharper to ride than Clydesdales (obviously that is generalising). I had a 3/4 shire and we rehomed him as he was very sharp and spooky.

Yes, I would wonder if they would cope with the heat also.

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interesting to know that your 3/4 shire horse was spooky! something to keep in mind

 

[SEL]

I've ridden both and would probably choose a clydesdale over a shire for riding purposes.

I've known a fair few shires go on to develop leg problems (suspensory injuries, mild shivers etc) and I've often wondered if its because they are designed to pull instead of carry us. I'm sure there will be many Shire breeders / owners out there with perfectly sound horses though.

I also used to ride a part bred Shire who was very sharp. He went to a hunting home in the end and flourished with the work.

I don't actually know many clydesdales now but the few times I've ridden them I've had good rides, so a bit biased!

I would question how they would be in the heat though. The Shire, Ardennes and French draft at our yard all struggled last summer when the temps hit 30 odd for a week - none of them were worked in the heat of the day and they all stood around dripping and looking sorry for themselves. Would you not consider a local bred horse if you moved? They would be acclimatised.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

He was extremely spooky and much more highly strung than I expected. We rehomed him to a wonderful lady who was ex military.

I did go to view a Clydesdale a few years ago and he was incredible, Rock solid to hack and I would have snapped him up but our circumstances changed very suddenly and I was gutted not to be able to get him.

I don’t want to discourage you from shires and hopefully someone else will be along soon to confirm if they are sharper.

Just remember how much they eat, if you are going to a hot country you’re not going to have the luxury of grass. The Clydesdale I viewed the owner said he ate a small bale and a half of hay per day along with grass (he was perfect condition) and he did have issues with the skin in his heels, needed a lot of care daily as he was prone to infection, I don’t know enough to know if this is common?

 

[Follysmum]

We have a half shire, had him 21yrs and he’s been absolutely fantastic as was his sire (full shire). He has never been sharp or spooky. Is rock solid in all traffic and any situation. If you are experienced he will give you a fun ride, if novice he will be a plod along.
Obviously he’s only half shire but he definitely has all the trates and looks of a full shire.
He eats about 3/4 of bale of hay and we have his bridles and girth’s made to measure. Definitely not cheap to keep but wonderful characters.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Wishing you the very best of luck with your Spanish horse.

i have a half bred Shire. He finds anything over 20 degrees hot and is clipped for comfort. He is very sharp and forwards, in a good way, certainly no malice. Highly intelligent and very trainable but very reactive. He thrives on work and learning. I also have a Clyde cross, much smaller in height than the Shire. She is also willing and forwards but nowhere near as reactive.

Both eat a lot of hay and both have weight issues if allowed anything but sparse grazing. The Clyde x has awful M/S . Foot care has to be fastidious to keep them sound.

 

[optimistic07]

I've ridden both and would probably choose a clydesdale over a shire for riding purposes.

I've known a fair few shires go on to develop leg problems (suspensory injuries, mild shivers etc) and I've often wondered if its because they are designed to pull instead of carry us. I'm sure there will be many Shire breeders / owners out there with perfectly sound horses though.

I also used to ride a part bred Shire who was very sharp. He went to a hunting home in the end and flourished with the work.

I don't actually know many clydesdales now but the few times I've ridden them I've had good rides, so a bit biased!

I would question how they would be in the heat though. The Shire, Ardennes and French draft at our yard all struggled last summer when the temps hit 30 odd for a week - none of them were worked in the heat of the day and they all stood around dripping and looking sorry for themselves. Would you not consider a local bred horse if you moved? They would be acclimatised.

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i might consider a local lusatino horse. but the thought of looking for a new riding horse again... it's overwhelming. i thought going with a clydie might be a safe bet!

 

[optimistic07]

He was extremely spooky and much more highly strung than I expected. We rehomed him to a wonderful lady who was ex military.

I did go to view a Clydesdale a few years ago and he was incredible, Rock solid to hack and I would have snapped him up but our circumstances changed very suddenly and I was gutted not to be able to get him.

I don’t want to discourage you from shires and hopefully someone else will be along soon to confirm if they are sharper.

Just remember how much they eat, if you are going to a hot country you’re not going to have the luxury of grass. The Clydesdale I viewed the owner said he ate a small bale and a half of hay per day along with grass (he was perfect condition) and he did have issues with the skin in his heels, needed a lot of care daily as he was prone to infection, I don’t know enough to know if this is common?

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ah ok! you mean with the feathers? yes i've read that they are prone to skin problems in that area!

 

[optimistic07]

We have a half shire, had him 21yrs and he’s been absolutely fantastic as was his sire (full shire). He has never been sharp or spooky. Is rock solid in all traffic and any situation. If you are experienced he will give you a fun ride, if novice he will be a plod along.
Obviously he’s only half shire but he definitely has all the trates and looks of a full shire.
He eats about 3/4 of bale of hay and we have his bridles and girth’s made to measure. Definitely not cheap to keep but wonderful characters.

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thanks for your reply. it was helpful

 

[ihatework]

They are draft horses designed for pulling stuff. Which of course doesn’t mean they can’t be ridden but as a big heavy horse does mean they aren’t cut out for miles of hacking.

Furthermore, they aren’t all dopes on a rope, some can be disproportionately sensitive and sharp.

I’ll add that the big horses don’t do so well in the heat.

 

[optimistic07]

Wishing you the very best of luck with your Spanish horse.

i have a half bred Shire. He finds anything over 20 degrees hot and is clipped for comfort. He is very sharp and forwards, in a good way, certainly no malice. Highly intelligent and very trainable but very reactive. He thrives on work and learning. I also have a Clyde cross, much smaller in height than the Shire. She is also willing and forwards but nowhere near as reactive.

Both eat a lot of hay and both have weight issues if allowed anything but sparse grazing. The Clyde x has awful M/S . Foot care has to be fastidious to keep them sound.

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thanks for your message and well wishes with my spanish boy!

how big is your half bred shire? hands? and your clyde cross?

i'd love to see your horses pics and the other posters pics, if you or anyone else is up for it

 

[Ownedby4horses]

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ah ok! you mean with the feathers? yes i've read that they are prone to skin problems in that area!

He actually had quite significant folds of skin that the owner said got very hot and sweaty, so she used to clean them daily with baby wipes. I’ve not seen it before and my shire didn’t have the same, I’m not sure if this is a common problem as it was new to me.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

So sorry by the way about your horse that is currently at the vets, I do hope all is well and that you can have a long retirement with him.

 

[optimistic07]

They are draft horses designed for pulling stuff. Which of course doesn’t mean they can’t be ridden but as a big heavy horse does mean they aren’t cut out for miles of hacking.

Furthermore, they aren’t all dopes on a rope, some can be disproportionately sensitive and sharp.

I’ll add that the big horses don’t do so well in the heat.

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thanks for your reply.

agreed that there are always exceptions with every breed, some not fitting the common disposition

when you say that big horses don't do well in heat, do you mean they get sick / colic ? since my spanish horse is currently in the hospital, i definitely think heat played a big part. but again, this is the middle east and horses go into ac barn, out to work in the heat and humidity, and back into freezing cold ac barn. i always thought moving to portugal would be much easier on him.

 

[optimistic07]

So sorry by the way about your horse that is currently at the vets, I do hope all is well and that you can have a long retirement with him.

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i really appreciate this comment. ive never cried so much!

 

[Ownedby4horses]

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i really appreciate this comment. ive never cried so much!

Aww, I’m so sorry as I suddenly realised the thread had totally missed this. It must be an incredibly difficult time for you and I do hope that all is ok, it is heartbreaking when things go so badly wrong with our four legged friends and we can only hope for the very best outcome for them, no matter how terrible it is for us. You and your husband sound like lovely owners and planning his retirement is good and shows just what kind and considerate owners you are. I really do hope all of the plans that you have come to fruition. It’s a good thread to help take your mind off things too. Wish I could tell you more about both breeds, I’m not sure I’ve been much help, as my knowledge is limited. For me, with my limited experience Of both, it would be a Clydesdale for me. However, the more sensible option is likely to be getting a horse that could cope with the heat.

Could you perhaps (when they are open), go up to Cumbria and get your heavy horse fill in, might be a nice treat and help take away some stress.

We have a pending emigration on hold waiting a delayed house sale as that is extremely stressful, I wouldn’t want to have the added stress of a poorly four legged friend on top, so you really do have my sympathy. Lucky you by the way moving to warmth, we are heading somewhere that gets very cold (and I’m always flipping cold in the UK).

 

[be positive]

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i really appreciate this comment. ive never cried so much!

Good luck with your boy, I will give you some hope as one of mine had double surgery many years ago, the first went well but two days later they had to go in again, a few days later they felt he was not going to make it so took him for a final pick of grass and he bounced back, came home, recovered came back to normal work and had another good 11 years or so before finally having a catastrophic colic when we called it a day very quickly, he was 10 when he had the ops.

No real experience of heavy horses but I am not sure going from a quality riding type to a horse bred to pull will be the dream you are looking for, if you are light why not another PRE, one that does hack or a x breed of riding type.

 

[Auslander]

My big guy is half heavy (either Shire or Clyde, depending on which of his previous owners you talk to) half TB, and he really struggles in the heat, despite his TB half. I have to clip him in summer, or he stands in the field and drips with sweat.
He's very very sensitive, sharp and clever, and isn't for the faint hearted when his blood is up!

 

[optimistic07]

Aww, I’m so sorry as I suddenly realised the thread had totally missed this. It must be an incredibly difficult time for you and I do hope that all is ok, it is heartbreaking when things go so badly wrong with our four legged friends and we can only hope for the very best outcome for them, no matter how terrible it is for us. You and your husband sound like lovely owners and planning his retirement is good and shows just what kind and considerate owners you are. I really do hope all of the plans that you have come to fruition. It’s a good thread to help take your mind off things too. Wish I could tell you more about both breeds, I’m not sure I’ve been much help, as my knowledge is limited. For me, with my limited experience Of both, it would be a Clydesdale for me. However, the more sensible option is likely to be getting a horse that could cope with the heat.

Could you perhaps (when they are open), go up to Cumbria and get your heavy horse fill in, might be a nice treat and help take away some stress.

We have a pending emigration on hold waiting a delayed house sale as that is extremely stressful, I wouldn’t want to have the added stress of a poorly four legged friend on top, so you really do have my sympathy. Lucky you by the way moving to warmth, we are heading somewhere that gets very cold (and I’m always flipping cold in the UK).

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so kind of you to come back and comment i really appreciate it. i'm normally a very positive person and i've been so upset and down over my boy. my husband suggested retirement actually and getting a new horse. it made me feel good that i can do that for him. my boy is a giver, he tried his heart out to please me at every opportunity, always offering so much more than i was asking. i owe him the world, he owes me nothing.
getting a new riding horse certainly helps keep my mind busy, although truth be told i feel guilty and disloyal to my spanish boy!!! LOL isnt that silly!?

good idea going to cumbria to see what the heavies are like.

more and more though i'm increasingly concerned about a clyde in warm weather so i'll continue to do my research.

good luck with your house sale, hope it goes through! that is def stressful esp with all the covid19 stuff on top!

 

[optimistic07]

Good luck with your boy, I will give you some hope as one of mine had double surgery many years ago, the first went well but two days later they had to go in again, a few days later they felt he was not going to make it so took him for a final pick of grass and he bounced back, came home, recovered came back to normal work and had another good 11 years or so before finally having a catastrophic colic when we called it a day very quickly, he was 10 when he had the ops.

No real experience of heavy horses but I am not sure going from a quality riding type to a horse bred to pull will be the dream you are looking for, if you are light why not another PRE, one that does hack or a x breed of riding type.

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thank you so much for this reply!! this has certainly given me some much needed hope! yes exactly first went well but 4 days later needed another surgery!! fingers crossed now he can bounce back.

wow your horse bounced back after a little pick of grass? i love it! he prob loves food like mine. my boy is so food motivated. i've been sending him carrots for the vet to give at their discretion (can't visit him in hospital due to covid19)

 

[AdorableAlice]

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thanks for your message and well wishes with my spanish boy!

how big is your half bred shire? hands? and your clyde cross?

i'd love to see your horses pics and the other posters pics, if you or anyone else is up for it

First picture is the Clyde cross ID, she is only 15.2h, but very deep. Over 10 inches of bone, maxi cob. The rider is over 6 feet tall and long legged.

Next 2 pictures are the Shire partbred. He is out of a pure mare by a vanner stallion. In feather he is very Shire but clipped out he is more HW hunter stamp. 17.2 but appears bigger when you get up to him, he is an upstanding sort, another 10 inches plus of bone.

 

[optimistic07]

My big guy is half heavy (either Shire or Clyde, depending on which of his previous owners you talk to) half TB, and he really struggles in the heat, despite his TB half. I have to clip him in summer, or he stands in the field and drips with sweat.
He's very very sensitive, sharp and clever, and isn't for the faint hearted when his blood is up!
View attachment 48428

wow!! what a stunning horse, such kind eyes! thanks for sharing! oh gosh, standing in the field dripping with sweat does not sound good at all. what temp are we talking here?

 

[optimistic07]

First picture is the Clyde cross ID, she is only 15.2h, but very deep. Over 10 inches of bone, maxi cob. The rider is over 6 feet tall and long legged.

Next 2 pictures are the Shire partbred. He is out of a pure mare by a vanner stallion. In feather he is very Shire but clipped out he is more HW hunter stamp. 17.2 but appears bigger when you get up to him, he is an upstanding sort, another 10 inches plus of bone.
View attachment 48426

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absolutely beautiful!! those horses look dreamy. love the black and white coloring as well. i have a thing for the socks and blaze!!

 

[Snowfilly]

I’m so sorry about your boy, I’ll keep everything crossed for him.
In general, I find shires to be sharper than clydes and a bit more reactive. I know a couple who are quite prone to bouncing! My shire would go all day long and still pull at the end of it.

Clydes are normally a bit steadier and I think, more fun. I’d always have another Clyde. They make very good long distance but fairly slow hacks - they’ll walk 20 miles in a day butdont have the stamina for long and fast rides.

However they’re not really hot weather horses so I’m going to suggest taking a look at the french heavy breeds - there isn’t really a Spanish heavy, although they have some heavy cob types around. A Percheron or Boulannais, foaled and raised in France, night find it easier to adjust.

I’d suggest a clean legged breed so you’re not fighting against feathers in the what, they’re really uncomfortable sometimes.

There’s some nice active and smaller drafts in Central Europe like the Noriker and the Black Forest who do well under saddle but I don’t know how they’d do in Spanish heat.

(Or stay here and buy the Clyde! They’re the best!)

 

[Auslander]

This was him in 25 degree heat. I can't find the pic from last year, when he was completely soaked, with sweat running down him (30degrees)

 

[optimistic07]

First picture is the Clyde cross ID, she is only 15.2h, but very deep. Over 10 inches of bone, maxi cob. The rider is over 6 feet tall and long legged.

Next 2 pictures are the Shire partbred. He is out of a pure mare by a vanner stallion. In feather he is very Shire but clipped out he is more HW hunter stamp. 17.2 but appears bigger when you get up to him, he is an upstanding sort, another 10 inches plus of bone.
View attachment 48426

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so sorry to be a pest, but can you recommend any reputable seller's for the types of horse you have? i took the day off work to google search but i'm not having much luck.

 

[optimistic07]

I’m so sorry about your boy, I’ll keep everything crossed for him.
In general, I find shires to be sharper than clydes and a bit more reactive. I know a couple who are quite prone to bouncing! My shire would go all day long and still pull at the end of it.

Clydes are normally a bit steadier and I think, more fun. I’d always have another Clyde. They make very good long distance but fairly slow hacks - they’ll walk 20 miles in a day butdont have the stamina for long and fast rides.

However they’re not really hot weather horses so I’m going to suggest taking a look at the french heavy breeds - there isn’t really a Spanish heavy, although they have some heavy cob types around. A Percheron or Boulannais, foaled and raised in France, night find it easier to adjust.

I’d suggest a clean legged breed so you’re not fighting against feathers in the what, they’re really uncomfortable sometimes.

There’s some nice active and smaller drafts in Central Europe like the Noriker and the Black Forest who do well under saddle but I don’t know how they’d do in Spanish heat.

(Or stay here and buy the Clyde! They’re the best!)

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thank you so much! your reply was very helpful. a long distance but fairly slow hack if ok with me.

thank you for suggesting other heavy breeds. i googled percherons earlier today and read they can be sharp and spooky. Boulannais looked wonderful and docile for hacks but couldnt find a single one for sale.