Shiver - input please.

[Weezy]

Just called about a horse to look at - owner has informed me that the horse has a slight shiver in his near hind when you first pick it up, but is then fine and is fine to shoe. No shiver evident under saddle. Bob Baskerville passed him 5 stage vetting 18 months ago and noted the shiver but signed him off as fit for purpose (SJing up to Fox). In the 18 months the owner has had him, he has gotten slightly better, possibly because he is fitter and more muscled up now. No veterinary attention has been required.

Thoughts?

 

[madhector]

We had a livery at the dressage yard that had a slight shiver, he was 18 and it had been the same for years, never really caused him a problem.

 

[seabiscuit]

Yep got a dressage horse that does that in my yard. Also know of another dressage horse that was sold out of a top yard as a shiverer.
In both cases their prices for sale were substantially reduced- both horses, although young and performing well, and working at advanced medium level were around the £3500 mark.
The shiverer in my yard has been performing well all its life with this condition, and to this day looks sound and fit when its being ridden- only time I notice the shivering, is when they are picking out its feet, then the horse is standing there shaking like anything!

 

[aliacc]

sorry to be negative but we bought a gelding with a very slight shiver...and it got worse in a matter of months. So think seriously about it as there are no guarantees. It didn't affect his performance and he jumped well.......but he became difficult to pick out feet, shoe behind ....and he had TB feet!...and if he had any cuts/lameness issues everything became worse.
Aliacc

 

[Seahorse]

I used to ride a GP dressage horse that was a shiverer, only noticed it when picking his back feet up.
Was never lame in the 2 years I rode him and was about 20 years old then.

It wouldn't bother me personally, but obv would affect selling price.

 

[Weezy]

Thank you everyone

Caution is to be exerted - I am a buyer with ready cash, so I am not going to rush into anything, it is a buyers market after all!

 

[MillionDollar]

Rosiie has/had a horse with shiver doesn't she?! Don't have any experience with it myself. Hope the viewing goes well!

 

[Shilasdair]

Had experience of this - often it shows when feet picked out, but also horses can have problems backing up.
In my experience the horse lost a bit of power in its back end from the shivering...which would possibly be an issue for SJ and higher levels of dressage.
But every horse is different...
S

 

[dieseldog]

Is the Shiver noted on the original vetting certificate? If not I would be worried as that horse was for sale for a lot of money at the start of the year and it might be something that has just been picked up in the vettings it is having now and they have halved the price to try and sell it. Just a thought.

 

[Tierra]

This is a tough one because ive seen both sides.

I had a lovely warmblood in my late teens who failed a vetting just before we bought him. The person who was having him vetted was a friend of mine and kindly filled me in on the details since we were interested.

Basically, he failed as being a shiverer.

I spoke to my vet the instant i was told this and she told me not to touch him under any circumstances. She said while he could be well for years, it was degenerative and they became dangerous as the condition progressed and, ultimatly, the chances were high id end up with a horse that couldnt be ridden and then became dangerous to handle; leaving me with dealing with a PTS case. She had very very strong thoughts on this and made it 100% clear.

We bought said horsey.

His shiver was evident on picking up his hind leg. He'd snatch away, shiver and release. There'd be a fair break in terms of seconds before he repeated. He displayed no other symtoms of this at all. He could walk backwards with no problems, had no strange action behind - nothing. The same vet who warned me off him did a 5 stage vetting on him for us and for the first and only time ive ever had this; i asked the vet to ride him.

She failed him, because of the shiver but said he was very sound, fit for the job AT PRESENT and a nice horse.

I had him two years before selling him to a friend. Hes now 13 and the shiver hasnt gotten worse (he has broken down mind).

On the other hand, i also liveried with a girl who also had a diagnosed shiverer. He was lovely and much like mine, showed very little indication of it.

We both move yards and i lost touch with her until last year when i was speaking to a mutual friend and she told me she was having problems with her horse - and that the shiver had seemingly deteriorated. He'd reached the point where he was having problems walking backwards, it was pronounced in the stable and she'd been advised to stop riding him after numerous episodes on board.

In the space of i think about 8 months, the horse went from competing at BD to being PTS due to being too problematic to handle (in the sense that he couldnt be ridden, his shiver was causing him a loss of control in his backend and while it wasnt his fault, he was outright dangerous to handle)

So, im torn. Ive had one who was a lovely horse and caused me no issue and to my knowledge, he's still living a perfectly normal life. On the other hand, ive known someone with one go from competing BD to having a dead horse in a very (imo) short period of time.

 

[Weezy]

Thanks for your answer Tierra

I now feel more informed for the future. The horse in question was sold before I could get to see it, so maybe I was spared another dose of bad luck

 

[Tierra]

Possibly a good thing. It seems to be one of those things that they can be fine with for ages but when they start to deteriorate, it goes fast.

And from what my vet did tell me, its a really really awful condition to deal with once it starts to go down hill

I dont think id want to risk the heart break tbh!

 

[GatefieldHorses]

Our grade b has terrible shivers. noticeable when u pick his feet out, in the stable, with farrier and sumtimes under saddle. but has still won a lot of money upto 1.25m bsja

 

[Tierra]

Not saying they cant perform and i never said that in my post either

I actually said for the most part, both horses ive known had very few symptoms of the condition (until the 2nd one went downhill alarmingly fast - prior to that, he too had been a successful competition horse)

Never the less, it IS degenerative; any vet will tell you that. The key question is how long they remain free of the problems associated with the condition and the sad fact is that when they do begin to degenerate, there is zero treatment and it reaches the point where the only option is PTS.